Guest Shirl Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 OP<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Post edited for lack of content. -Reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 What am I going to do now when we hit a rough patch of turbulence? Short of clinging on to the seat in front of me and dripping sweat, how will my racing mind find comfort?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about booze? A few snorts of Dutch courage will buck you right up, m'lad! Kidding, of course! In all seriousness, I would suggest some counseling if you are extremely phobic about flying and have to fly quite often. My aunt was the same way - terrified of flying. But she found a great counselor who helped her when she couldn't face the thought of a transatlantic flight, and she was able to relax enough to take the trip. She was damn glad when she landed, all the same... Anyway, hang in there and welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shirl Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hiya, all, I'm having problems with my deconversion and wondered if you could help. Center of another post fully quoted with no comment added is nuked AndyPandy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shirl, please resist the urge to fully quote posts... kevinL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shirl Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi Andy, Well, I must've clicked the wrong button last night, my post didn't take. Sorry about that. I was dozing off as I wrote it, but took the time to write you a nice fairly lengthy letter. Oh Well, stuff happens, huh? This morning, I'm babysitting my 11 1/2 mo. old grandson and he is sitting on my lap trying to get the keyboard as we speak. :-)...Anyway, just wanted to let you know how I feel with some of the same issues, like..the quilt factor, also the "fear" factor. Don't let it get to you. Always remember, when you have choices to make, especially concerning God, gods and religion, you have to use "your" best judgement, and not listen to all the propaganda, and that's not going to be easy..there's a lot of that out there. I'd like to guote Robert Ingersoll. I think he explains it much better than I could: "It seems to me that reason is the highest attribute of man, and that if there can be any communication from God to man, it must be addressed to his reason...It does not seem possible that in order to understand a message from God it is absolutely essential to throw our reason away...How could God make known his will to any being destitute of reason?..How can any man accept as a revelation from God that which is unreasonable to him?..He must make it to me, and until he convinces my reason that it is true, I cannot receive it." Also Thomas Paine on the Bible, quote: "It has often been said, that anything may be proved from the Bible, but before anything can be admitted or proved by the Bible, the Bible itself must be proved to be true, for if the Bible be not true, or the truth of it be doubtful, It ceases to have authority, and cannot be admitted as proof of anything." These men were very brave as well as intelligent. Living in the "Bible Belt," I can relate somewhat. I could be tarred and feathered and/or run out of town, but that doesn't bother me any more. As a matter of fact, I don't fear death anymore. I do fear "pain", and no one wants to die, but since I was diagnosed 3 1/2 yrs.ago with C. Heart Failure. I have really looked at these issues seriously. I want to remain "true" to myself above all else. I do not want to die a hypocrite. I only threw that in hopes this bit of info. will help. Don't punish yourself by carrying that baggage (fear and quilt) around. Once you do that, you will feel such a load lifted. I'm not a Christian and can't be a part of anything based on quilt, fear of hell, unjustifiable suffering, etc. So, hang in there. About the fear of flying...If I can do it, anybody can. I had this fear of flying and decided to tackle it head on. I flew to New York in Jan. 2003. Andy It was awesome.(we were on high alert at the time) I loved it. I loved it so much I flew to East Tesas shortly after that to visit my brother (much shorter trip) You have to face your fears head-on. It works. Hope I've said something that helps. Enjoyed your post. Don't let the bastards get you down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vanessasaurus Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi Andy, I am an ex-Christadelphian too, and I know how hard it is to break away. For a long time I felt like I'd lost my whole community support, but now I know that they were only supporting me when I did what they wanted. I can't think of much worse things in a Christadelphian context than to be gay. They are very, very intolerant. You are so much better out of there. Spend time with your friends, and try to think of the Christadelphians as only doing what they believe is right, despite the fact that they are quite patently wrong. I hope you are okay, Vanessasaurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Excellent post, Mike D! Nearly identical to my experience...all is well in my life now. Thank you for sharing your experience, I certainly concur with what you said...same experience for my life when I rejected Christianity. TruthSeeker Hi Andy, from your story it sounds like you pretty much don't believe anymore but maybe don't want to acknowledge it for fear of losing the comfortable life you have built for yourself. Is that correct? All I can say to that is in the past few years that I have stopped believing in God, stopped praying, etc., my life has continued to get better. In fact when I look at my life when I was really a "true believer" and now as an atheist, it's almost day and night. I went from being poor, stressed out, frustrated, no direction, etc., to having a decent amount of money, good career, alot less stress, less frustration, etc., I think because all the baggage that comes with being Christian (and religious) is gone. I no longer live my life in fear of angry jealous gods just waiting to smite me or throw me into a lake of fire and torture me because I didn't do everything I was supposed to do, or somehow Satan tricked me into believing lies (rolls eyes). Nor do I have to worry about the same fate for my friends, family, etc. I don't have to deal with stress of tyring to live up to some Christian's idea of what type of person I should be, I am free to be whoever I am. And more importantly I don't sit around on my ass all day doing nothing for myself, and instead praying to Jesus to make my life better, when it's pretty obvious he doesn't do anything. Nothing changed for me until I finally took matters into my own hands and stopped believing the lies! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Greetings, AndyPandy, Welcome to ex-C....as you see, many here relate to how you're feeling. This is an excellent place for those seeking truth and understanding as you are. Here are a few comments I'd like to share with you in regards to your questions... You said, "The only reason I did not get baptized into the latter was because I was gay, and did not want to put myself through a baptism, only to disappoint people afterwards." Anyone who has a belief system in which they cannot accept you as you are are not people you need to be concerned about disappointing. On the contrary, it is their belief system you should question (as you are now). Any religion that teaches that love can be given some and withheld from others whom they call "sinners" is a religion to reject. Being who you are, being true to who you are, is the most important thing...and would add to that--rejecting anyone who would judge you negatively for being who you are. That's a big part (among others) for my rejecting Christianity...I reject anyone who judges and condemns other people for who they are. In fact, many of those people you did not want to "disappoint" may very well have lived lives of hypocrisy....saying one thing...doing another... You were to honest for that....actually, you are too honest a person to be part of Christians who believe that way, in my opinion. If those Christians, you felt, would have rejected you or not helped you had they known more about you...then theirs was not true love and concern for at all. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post....but I'm sort of interpreting it to mean the Christians (where you did not get baptized, etc.) didn't know you were gay. If that was so, and if you felt their Christian love would have been less had they known....then it wasn't love at all. Love is not conditional. That's why I reject Christianity....it is filled with judgment and condemnation. Its teachings are against life....against reality. You said, "I feel all this happened because I prayed for it, and my prayers were answered. I certainly seemed to feel the hand of God - or something or someone - in my good fortune. Now I'm worried, if I denounce my faith and God entirely, then all this will be taken away from me and that I won't have the spiritual backup I used in the past to help." Have no such fear. That's part of the poison of Christian dogma...to instill fear in people so they never leave or question. Many of them say to even question is to "sin." Once they get you, they don't want you to leave. It is irrational...it is fear-based. I believe there are only two emotions: love and fear. I reject fear. Focus on loving yourself...following your heart....being who you truly are. Grow--as you are now spiritually. "God," if you will, as you have stated is a "God" of wrath, vengeance, a "jealous" God the Bible says...now doesn't that sound so human? It is a "God" made in man's image. The "God" you still fear would take away what you have in life is a "God" that's been instilled in you from people....man-made... Obviously you are questioning that concept entirely. Thus, do not let the fear they have taught you make you worry about your life. Life, as a free human being (free from false concepts) is a much happier one (in my experience). Gone are agonizing prayers...the tears...the betrayals from people you thought cared about you (fellow Christians)....etc. Life is yours to be lived with love for yourself and others....that;'s it. A loving entity (God) of any sort be it a human being (or otherwise) does not condemn and judge. The spiritual sense of Spirit you have can and does exist free from Christianity...God does not condemn because he has never judged. That is love. It is not the God of Christianity who has been created to be like the human beings who created it...a tale of anger and wrath....so human because it was made by man. You said, "I also feel very guilty (product of church teaching?) because members of each of the religious groups I belonged to helped me in my journey in life, providing shelter, food, and support in many different ways." Guilt, like fear, is another false concept you have accepted from that Christian belief. AndyPandy, you need feel guilty about nothing. You are perfect as you are. Each of is perfect and whole--if we only realize it. You are concerned you are wronging them in some way by following your heart? Someone who TRULY cared about--and gave you those provisions and help from true caring for you--would not be upset to learn you have rejected the religion. But IF their help was given to you as an obligation predicated on your belief...then it was not loving actions they did at all. It was centered on what they could get from you...not what they could joyfully share with you. It is good you received the help, but you owe them nothing. If those people knew about your deconversion and regretted helping you--then they never loved you at all. If they knew and could accept it as your path with respect, then they truly cared for you and do. Be not concerned with them...You must do what is right for you in this moment. The past does not exist. All you have is right now. Remember fear and guilt are false concepts used by society to control people. As for decisions...you are choosing again right now. Mistakes are only for correction. I view my many years (13 years) as a Christian as a mistake. It is over....and I am a far better person for it. Rejecting Christianity opened the way for me to grow spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually (things I always valued). Be strong. Have courage. I wish you well. Peace, TruthSeeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Dear AndyPandy, Giving religion the total heave-ho and having (or not having) a belief in a god are not the same thing. As long as you realize the "relationship" you may feel you have with a supreme being is pretty one sided.....do you really need more? If praying makes you feel better, sometimes just feeling like "someone" is listening is all we need, no one here is saying you have to give that up if you aren't ready to. This is why religion HAS had the success it has. It capitalizes on that need to be heard. Religion was created by people. God? People did not create god. If there is a god, then that's god, and humans have nothing to do with that (that probably sounds strange). Basically all I'm saying is no one expects you to go from devout christian, to hard core atheist overnight. There is a lot more middle ground between religion and atheism than you realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Basically all I'm saying is no one expects you to go from devout christian, to hard core atheist overnight. There is a lot more middle ground between religion and atheism than you realize. Yeah, like agnosticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specs appeal Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 I hate flying. Whenever I get in an aeroplane, I go through every prayer to God, Angels, Lord's Prayer, again and again and again. Does anyone else have this fear? What am I going to do now when we hit a rough patch of turbulence? Short of clinging on to the seat in front of me and dripping sweat, how will my racing mind find comfort? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know what to do, but I sympathize. I haven't flown since 1998, and it was okay, though not my preferred mode of travel... but these days, the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of flying. Unfortunately, eventually I WILL have to fly over an ocean a couple times, and I'm not liking the idea. SO I don't know what to do, but I have that fear too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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