Galien Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I would never, ever consider another living being my "leader". That is just totally creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Even as a christian I refused that submission bullshit. I was not given away at my wedding and I told the pastor if he included "and obey" in my vows I would not repeat it. The look on his face when I told him that was priceless. He honored my wished though and did not use "and obey" in the vows. I've always felt I'm as competent as anyone else, regardless of gender. The "head of a woman is man" thing was never agreeable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThereIsNoGod Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I am concerned about the sexist attitude of both the church and the rest of society, almost as though I were a woman myself. I believe sexism toward women does have a real backlash on men and I feel the pain of that. When women's roles are strictly defined by society, that forces men to be in an opposite role and not all men are happy with that. People can't have their role decided, based on what sex they are. It just doesn't work in that black and white way. The real master over what role we play is nature itself. Yes, women are the birthgivers, men arn't and theres no getting around that. Except to say that women don't have to give birth if they don't want to. Nature will place women in positions where they need support i.e pregnancies, but nature will also cause men to become sick and need support. People need to get off the whole "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" idea. Men and Women choose how feminine or how masculine they want to be. They shouldn't let their sex dictate what they should be doing with their lives. If a woman wants to wear pretty clothes and make-up, fine. If she wants to do the exact opposite, fine too. And the same for men. The main thing is that you are doing it cause you WANT to do it. I'd love to see a few more "Men from Venus and Women from Mars" around! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRobinson Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is a touchy subject for me because my husband was abusive. The pastors wife told me I have to be more accomodating to my bastard husband who picked fights just cuz he woke up that morning...And she said that Ill break up my entire family if I cant keep the kids dad around and its all my fault. I cant tell you the frustration on the inside when theres nothing eles you can try to stop an abuser and then have the church tell you its your fault if he leaves. There were some Christians who had common sense and did adivse me to get him out if he cant stop fighting but most just prayed he would give his heart to the lord. The burden of carrying all the weight on my shoulders for someone elses neandrathal behaviour was just BS. I should have slapped the pastors wife right there and told her its her fault she got hit, she said the wrong thing and mirror her advice. I feel so sorry for other women getting beat up and the church sugar coats the bottom line which is -If your getting beat up at home its your own fault. Of couse if there is a loving caring husband in the picture who did serve the lord and was a christian and didnt use his authority to demean his wife, I dont even understand why the word submissive is even used. I mean the bible is talking about a christian marriage so obviously the husband is supposed to be honoring his wife and ready to die for her as christ died for the church, when would there EVER need be a time where the wife would SUBMIT. If we are all equal, why is the bible using the word SUB- when referring to women....The word submit would only be needed when power and authority-rules-regulations-laws-abuse have to be enforced for no other reason for a man to control a woman. BULLSHIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Objet_trouve24 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 When I married my husband, I did not promise to obey him. I didn't either. I found so much in the traditional wedding script that I didn't like, I wrote my own. Just figured hey, I'm a poet, why the hell not? Our vows mean more to us than I think most people because we wrote the whole thing ourselves. This thread really makes me wonder, what kind of guy do you have to be to want a wife you obeys you and relies on you like a child. I mean most christians I know are completely hypocritical about it, and a very small number who claim to follow it say they do it only because god wants them to (and most of them are also pretty hypocritical, let the woman do whatever saying they don't care so they don't have to be authoritarian douchebags). But what kind of DICK do you have to be to want a woman to de-humanize herself and be a slave to you??? That guy is a better christian??? wtf?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The "wifely submission" stuff is pretty gross. Even as a Christian I thought so and always treated my wife as my equal, because that's how we met, that's how we fell in love and that's how we relate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKR Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is the one thing I miss about Christianity. I'm just fuckin with you. It's actually one of the first reasons I started to question it, even as a child. I found it disgusting. There's an insane amount of misogyny in the religion. Women are worth less when being sold; they're under their father's will until they find a husband to take over as controlling douche bag; they're told to keep their stupid woman mouths shut in church and to never teach the all wise male sex; they're blamed for the fall of man while Adam isn't accused of the same; their only real value is child baring and it's the only way they can be forgiven of their sins and make it to heaven, and so on. It's fucking ridiculous and lots of guys eat it up. They try to justify it in all sorts of stupid ways, and then, they lie out of their asses and claim it's not sexist. Let's see, rules based on stereotypical sex rules. Uh yeah, that's sexism, you dumb fucks. And then I'm seeing as a beta male because I believe women are not only capable of making their own decisions in life but deserving of equality regardless of their capabilities relative to their boyfriend or husband. The truth is these guys are not alpha males but insecure little shits who hide behind a religion and use it as leverage and justification for getting their selfish way. Their fragile egos are not capable of handling females being equal or even greater at earning money than them. They often use this to keep the woman out of the work place or from full time work so they can feel like the big man that the woman is dependent on as a provider. They hate it when I point this out and expose them for the insecure, selfish pricks they are. My parents are fundies, but this is one thing my mom really hates. My dad, of course, being a douche bag, loves it. If I felt like destroying her religious beliefs, this is probably the Achilles heal I would go for. HRDWarrior gave all the good reasons for why they would go along with this bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRDWarrior Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is a touchy subject for me because my husband was abusive. The pastors wife told me I have to be more accomodating to my bastard husband who picked fights just cuz he woke up that morning...And she said that Ill break up my entire family if I cant keep the kids dad around and its all my fault. I cant tell you the frustration on the inside when theres nothing eles you can try to stop an abuser and then have the church tell you its your fault if he leaves. There were some Christians who had common sense and did adivse me to get him out if he cant stop fighting but most just prayed he would give his heart to the lord. The burden of carrying all the weight on my shoulders for someone elses neandrathal behaviour was just BS. I should have slapped the pastors wife right there and told her its her fault she got hit, she said the wrong thing and mirror her advice. I feel so sorry for other women getting beat up and the church sugar coats the bottom line which is -If your getting beat up at home its your own fault. Of couse if there is a loving caring husband in the picture who did serve the lord and was a christian and didnt use his authority to demean his wife, I dont even understand why the word submissive is even used. I mean the bible is talking about a christian marriage so obviously the husband is supposed to be honoring his wife and ready to die for her as christ died for the church, when would there EVER need be a time where the wife would SUBMIT. If we are all equal, why is the bible using the word SUB- when referring to women....The word submit would only be needed when power and authority-rules-regulations-laws-abuse have to be enforced for no other reason for a man to control a woman. BULLSHIT My father was abusive to my mother (she did a pretty good job of running interference for us kids, but we sure saw it all)...at one point, he told her he would shoot her and put her in the hospital if she didn't "shape up" and do what he told her to (which, being a cop, he was perfectly capable of doing - he had thrown a knife "in her direction" in the past (it hit the floor between her feet) so it was a very real threat). Our pastor (along with the church deacons) told my mother (I was there to hear it, so this isn't even 2nd hand information) that she had to stay no matter what, even if he literally beat her to death, because that was her role as a Christian wife. Her life was there to save my father, and all the BS you were told as well, only they took it one step further. They did say that if he beat her that badly, she/we could stay at their house for a short period, but she was not allowed to divorce or separate from my father under any circumstances unless he had an affair and chose to leave himself. But as long as he kept coming home, she had to be there to take it. I think that's when I mentally decided once and for all I would never accept Christianity's views on women...until then I figured I was just in the wrong....after that, it was sealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRobinson Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 This is a touchy subject for me because my husband was abusive. The pastors wife told me I have to be more accomodating to my bastard husband who picked fights just cuz he woke up that morning...And she said that Ill break up my entire family if I cant keep the kids dad around and its all my fault. I cant tell you the frustration on the inside when theres nothing eles you can try to stop an abuser and then have the church tell you its your fault if he leaves. There were some Christians who had common sense and did adivse me to get him out if he cant stop fighting but most just prayed he would give his heart to the lord. The burden of carrying all the weight on my shoulders for someone elses neandrathal behaviour was just BS. I should have slapped the pastors wife right there and told her its her fault she got hit, she said the wrong thing and mirror her advice. I feel so sorry for other women getting beat up and the church sugar coats the bottom line which is -If your getting beat up at home its your own fault. Of couse if there is a loving caring husband in the picture who did serve the lord and was a christian and didnt use his authority to demean his wife, I dont even understand why the word submissive is even used. I mean the bible is talking about a christian marriage so obviously the husband is supposed to be honoring his wife and ready to die for her as christ died for the church, when would there EVER need be a time where the wife would SUBMIT. If we are all equal, why is the bible using the word SUB- when referring to women....The word submit would only be needed when power and authority-rules-regulations-laws-abuse have to be enforced for no other reason for a man to control a woman. BULLSHIT My father was abusive to my mother (she did a pretty good job of running interference for us kids, but we sure saw it all)...at one point, he told her he would shoot her and put her in the hospital if she didn't "shape up" and do what he told her to (which, being a cop, he was perfectly capable of doing - he had thrown a knife "in her direction" in the past (it hit the floor between her feet) so it was a very real threat). Our pastor (along with the church deacons) told my mother (I was there to hear it, so this isn't even 2nd hand information) that she had to stay no matter what, even if he literally beat her to death, because that was her role as a Christian wife. Her life was there to save my father, and all the BS you were told as well, only they took it one step further. They did say that if he beat her that badly, she/we could stay at their house for a short period, but she was not allowed to divorce or separate from my father under any circumstances unless he had an affair and chose to leave himself. But as long as he kept coming home, she had to be there to take it. I think that's when I mentally decided once and for all I would never accept Christianity's views on women...until then I figured I was just in the wrong....after that, it was sealed. Im sorry HRD you went through that. My dad was scary when I was small, breaking windows and throwing heavy objects at my mom...terrifying!! I have a booklet called When Violence Comes Home. It is a christian author who says a christian wife has to love her husband. And love means calling the police and pressing charges even if he goes to jail. It also says showing love is NOT hiding the abuse from police or giving him another chance, and another, and another. I wish all churches got on board with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droptail Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 For all the ladies out there, any thoughts on the custom of women changing to their husband's surname/last name when marrying? I know it's not really a Christian concept, but it's also not exactly the hallmark of an equal society... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 For all the ladies out there, any thoughts on the custom of women changing to their husband's surname/last name when marrying? I know it's not really a Christian concept, but it's also not exactly the hallmark of an equal society... I did it one, Ive changed back and I would never do it again. Why, to me its not who I am. I am who I was born and have grown into, I don't need the name of another to somehow define me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super FZL Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 For all the ladies out there, any thoughts on the custom of women changing to their husband's surname/last name when marrying? I know it's not really a Christian concept, but it's also not exactly the hallmark of an equal society... This could be a whole separate topic - and an interesting one. You should make it. Regarding the original topic, I'm not real big on the misogyny either. Women are not my property, my slaves, my secretaries, or my personal assistants. I find wifely submission a little on the creepy side, as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 For all the ladies out there, any thoughts on the custom of women changing to their husband's surname/last name when marrying? I know it's not really a Christian concept, but it's also not exactly the hallmark of an equal society... If I ever have the misfortune of getting married, I insist that I keep my surname because I don't want to have to file the paperwork to change my name back if I get divorced--which I know I wouldn't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 For all the ladies out there, any thoughts on the custom of women changing to their husband's surname/last name when marrying? I know it's not really a Christian concept, but it's also not exactly the hallmark of an equal society... I took his name because my maiden name was an odd, unruly last name. I did it to simplify. I would be fine if traditions changed to keep your maiden name but all that hyphenating can get pretty unruly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlw1980 Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 For all the ladies out there, any thoughts on the custom of women changing to their husband's surname/last name when marrying? I know it's not really a Christian concept, but it's also not exactly the hallmark of an equal society... I did it the first time I got married, then had to change it back after the divorce. (He was not Xian but still abusive.) As a feminist, I didn't want to change it in the first place. I did it as a gift to him. He's a fucking pig and didn't deserve it, but I was young and naive. Now I'm getting remarried soon, and have to decide if I'll change it again. The name change process is a PAIN IN THE ASS, so I'm not looking forward to it, if I decide to do it. My fiance is actually a great guy and is far more worthy of my changing my name than the ex-hole was. The thing is, my last name is my father's. Taking a husband's name is no more sexist than a baby's automatically receiving his/her father's name. (They're both equally sexist.) And there's no going back and changing all that for the last couple millennia. I hate this whole issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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