Author Phil Pullman bashes Narnia

[Asimov]

I like the Chronicles of Narnia. Regardless of my disdain for Christianity if I like a story and it contains Christian themes (subtlety is generally a must) then I will read it.

 

I am definitely looking forward to the movie, it looks like quite an epic.

 

 

Asimov pwns this ^ jackass in his thread.

 

But then here comes along this Mr. Pullman, who looks like a total Assclown and says that the Narnia books contain

 

 

""a peevish blend of racist, misogynistic and reactionary prejudice" and "not a trace" of Christian charity.

 

"It's not the presence of Christian doctrine I object to so much as the absence of Christian virtue," he added."

 

Mmmmhmmmm...and yet here we have Christians arguing for mysoginistic values, defending women submitting....we have the Pauline documents which support that. Not to mention that the Bible is RIFE with racism and prejudice. God's own Chosen people were the worst of the bunch in the Bible.

 

Apparently Phil has never read the Bible.

 

""The highest virtue - we have on the authority of the New Testament itself - is love, and yet you find not a trace of that in the books.""

 

I fail to see where Narnia contains any mention of what Pullman was talking about, I've read the books 7 or 8 times each.

 

And then here comes along (OBVIOUSLY) the fundy jackasses with their

 

" "We believe that God will speak the gospel of Jesus Christ through this film," "

 

Hahaha, yea fucking right. I doubt half the people who go see the movie even know it contains Christian themes, and the other half will be too busy drooling over the visuals to give two shits about Christianity. The only way people will come to Christ through this film is if the movie hypnotizes the audience and tells them to become Christians.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4347226.stm

[Vixentrox]

I for one loved the books, I own the cartoon, and am looking very much forward to watching the new movie.

[Ouroboros]

I loved (and love) the books. Even got a new paperback print, with all of them in one book.

[LadyFeline]

Meh. I preferred Pullman's books to Narnia.

 

Doesn't mean I'm not gonna go see the movie, though. It looks excellent.

 

That said... who cares what Phillip Pullman thinks? It's his bloody fucking opinion, if you don't like it, just fucking ignore it.

[Cerise]

I remember watching the BBC version of Narnia in grade school. Other then that, I don't recall much of the story except it beat the hell out of math class. Never read the books. The new movie looks neat though.

[Asimov]

Meh. I preferred Pullman's books to Narnia.

 

Doesn't mean I'm not gonna go see the movie, though. It looks excellent.

 

That said... who cares what Phillip Pullman thinks? It's his bloody fucking opinion, if you don't like it, just fucking ignore it.

 

But....but it's fun to make fun of people....

[Asuryan]

I can't say I liked Narnia much.

 

I've read the lion, the witch and the wardrobe when I was a child. However I soon discarded it in favor of Michael Ende, Isaac Asimov and Margaret Weis. I don't think it was because I became "jaded" with age, as I switched to Ende, Asimov and Weis at six... even while I read it, certain things seemed quite a bit out of place, or exagerations. Such as...

*Spoilers Ahead!* don't know if the warning is necessary, but here goes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..the way the boy was punished working as a slave for the sorceress. Or the tear-moving (I didn't cry though, merely found that a bit annoying) sacrificial death of the lion with consequential resurrection. It seemed somehow a little... forced, to me. As if the author was trying to underline with a big black line certain passages to move you to tears or to present the witch as utterly totally unbelievably evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*End Spoilers.*

So, well, I'll go and see it. But I don't expect much. Maybe I'll like the movie better than the novel, we'll see.

[Kuroikaze]

for what its worth, I still have a lot of respect for Lewis, even though I'm no longer christian. For one, he makes real attepmts to make his faith as rational and well thought out as posible.

 

I think the the Narnia books are pretty well written, and just like the Lord of the Rings, which was also written by a christian, I don't think you need to accept the underlying religious ideas as true to enjoy it. Its just a good fantasy story.

[All Gods Fail]

Mmm...I'll come down against Narnia. I think they're ok, but not really any better written than Harry Potter. Roald Dahl outclasses them both, IMO.

 

Lewis was an interesting apologist, but most fundies would be appalled at his beliefs today. For the record, he and Johnny Cash were the 2 coolest xtians. Lewis drank, smoked, and didn't see anything wrong with sex at all. Not even gay sex, as I understand it. He was not the condemning kind.

 

He was the kind of xtian who really thought love and doing right was the main thing. Too bad more believers aren't like him.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

I read all of the Narnia books sometime in middle school. Can't remember a thing about them. I still want to see the movie because it looks interesting, however.

 

 

(I also had no clue they were Christian allegory until a few months ago. Shows how well the stuff can brainwash you. )

[Rachelness]

I went to see Pullman in a literary debate about a month ago. I LOVE HIM!! Asimov, how dare you insult the great Philip Pullman? Hooow daaaare you?

[Rachelness]

Having said that, I love Narnia too. I used to watch the BBC version of The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, but I could NEVER bring myself to watch *possible spoiler* Aslan getting slain. Even to this day I haven't seen that scene. Children are too strange.

 

I do love to watch Christian evangelicals get excited over the prospect of "spreading the love of Jesus", however. When I was a kid the Christian symbolism was beyond me, and I don't see why that would be any different with kids today. Most of them will enjoy it for what it is... fantasy.

[Mr. Neil]

I haven't read those books in years. They're on my bookshelf next to all of my other favorite childhood books, like E.B. White and Tolkien. I should probably thumb through them again.

 

I really don't care what Christian authors have to say about each other (although obviously, Lewis is gone and can't say anything back). As far as I'm concerned they should just write their books and be quiet.

 

Write, Christian boy! Write! Entertain the atheists!

[Rachelness]

I haven't read those books in years.  They're on my bookshelf next to all of my other favorite childhood books, like E.B. White and Tolkien.  I should probably thumb through them again.

 

I really don't care what Christian authors have to say about each other (although obviously, Lewis is gone and can't say anything back).  As far as I'm concerned they should just write their books and be quiet.

 

Write, Christian boy!  Write!  Entertain the atheists!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Philip Pullman is actually an atheist. You should read the triology he wrote called His Dark Materials. Very very well written imo, and also heavily critical of the church.

[Asuryan]

Mmm...I'll come down against Narnia. I think they're ok, but not really any better written than Harry Potter. Roald Dahl outclasses them both, IMO.

 

Amen, brother!

[Alice]

Philip Pullman is actually an atheist. You should read the triology he wrote called His Dark Materials. Very very well written imo, and also heavily critical of the church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was surprised to see that others thought him to be a christian. 'His Dark Materials' was right up there near the top of the banned list at my last church. (More dangerous than Harry Potter ~ gasp!)

 

I loved the Narnia books. Themes of redemption and salvation belong to and touch most people ~ irrespective of religion.

 

I have high hopes of the film. Last christmas we took the family to see a stage musical version of the Lion the witch and the wardrobe. It was TERRIBLE. It was so awful we sort of enjoyed it.

 

I hope to enjoy the films for better reasons!

[Mr. Neil]

Philip Pullman is actually an atheist. You should read the triology he wrote called His Dark Materials. Very very well written imo, and also heavily critical of the church.

Really? I'm really not familiar with his work. I just assumed based on what one of the things he said.

 

"It's not the presence of Christian doctrine I object to so much as the absence of Christian virtue".

[All Gods Fail]

I was surprised to see that others thought him to be a christian. 'His Dark Materials' was right up there near the top of the banned list at my last church. (More dangerous than Harry Potter ~ gasp!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I read 'His Dark Materials', and it was...disturbing. Honestly, I don't know how appropriate it is for kids. If a kid of mine read it, I would be sure to discuss it with them.

 

I think it's really more suited to adults - it's not a very uplifting or comforting fantasy.

[Rachelness]

Really?  I'm really not familiar with his work.  I just assumed based on what one of the things he said.

 

"It's not the presence of Christian doctrine I object to so much as the absence of Christian virtue".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yea, I don't know what all that was about. He was probably trying to pander to liberal Christians while taking a pop at the evangelicals who want to use this film to spread the Gospel.

[Alice]

Really?  I'm really not familiar with his work.  I just assumed based on what one of the things he said.

 

"It's not the presence of Christian doctrine I object to so much as the absence of Christian virtue".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Here is some information about Pullman taken from a christian website (www.damaris.org)

 

The article is wonderfully entitiled ~ Phillip Pullman. The most dangerous author in Britain.

 

Philip Pullman was born in 1946 in Norwich. He was the son of RAF fighter pilot who was shot down and killed in Rhodesia seven years later during the Mau Mau rebellion. In an interview on Amazon.com, Pullman says,

 

'Peter Dickinson and I were talking one day and this subject came up and we agreed how strange it was that so many children's authors had lost one or both parents in their childhood. My father died in a plane crash when I was seven, and naturally I was preoccupied for a long time by the mystery of what he must have been like.'

 

His mother remarried two years later to another RAF pilot, and Philip and his brother moved to Australia with them for 18 months. This early experience of travelling long distances by sea, and then living in a very different place, had a significant impact on Philip and his subsequent writing.

 

He came back to school in Britain - a prep school in London, and then boarding school in north Wales. It was not easy being a new boy at school - particularly when feeling rather rootless. But His English teacher at secondary school, Enid Jones, was a major influence on Philip Pullman. She introduced him to John Milton's epic poem, Paradise Lost when he was sixteen and he fell in love with it:

 

'I found it intensely enthralling, not only the actual story. . . but also the landscapes, the power of the poetry and the extraordinary majesty of the language.'

 

Another significant figure in Philip Pullman's childhood was his grandfather:

 

'My grandfather was a clergyman, a Church of England rector in a parish in Norfolk. I spent a lot of my childhood in his household, because my father died when I was seven. We were brought up quite a lot by my grandfather. This involved, of course, going to church and going to Sunday School and listening to Bible stories and all the rest of it.

 

'He was a very good, old-fashioned country clergyman and a wonderful storyteller, too. He knew all the stories that one should know from the Bible. So it was a very familiar part of my background and it was something that one didn't question. Grandpa was the rector, Grandpa preached a sermon and of course God existed - one didn't even thinking of questioning it.' (interview with Susan Roberts on fish.co.uk)

 

But in time Philip Pullman lost any he had confidence in this:

 

'Then, of course, as I grew up and began to look around and see how other people thought about things, and read books and so on, naturally I began to question this, as people do. And I eventually came - after a lot of swinging this way and that, and trying things out - to the position I hold now.' (Interview with Susan Roberts, fish.co.uk)

 

Pullman's position is that he rejects any belief in God. He acknowledges that God may be out there somewhere, but insists that he has seen no evidence for his existence:

 

I know full well that the total amount of the things I know is a tiny little pinprick of light compared with the vast unlimited darkness that surrounds it - which is all the things I don't know. I don't know more than a tiny fragment of what it's possible to know about this world. As for what goes on outside it in the rest of the universe, it's a vast darkness full of things that I don't know. Now, somewhere in the things that I don't know, there may be a God.

 

But if we come down - like coming close up with a camera - getting closer and closer to this little pinprick of light, so that it begins to expand and gets bigger and bigger until we find ourselves inside it. . . I can see no evidence in that circle of things I do know, in history, or in science or anywhere else, no evidence of the existence of God.

 

So I'm caught between the words 'atheistic' and 'agnostic'. I've got no evidence whatever for believing in a God. But I know that all the things I do know are very small compared with the things that I don't know. So maybe there is a God out there. All I know is that if there is, he hasn't shown himself on earth.

 

But going further than that, I would say that those people who claim that they do know that there is a God have found this claim of theirs the most wonderful excuse for behaving extremely badly. So belief in a God does not seem to me to result automatically in behaving very well. (Interview with Susan Roberts, fish.co.uk)

 

He is now a supporter of the British Humanist Association and the National Secular Society.

 

Now personally, with all those vicars and wardrobes and parental loss in his childhood I find his lack of admiration for Clive somewhat surprising, but the ideas in his stories are amazing even if IMO not as well executed as they could be.

[specs appeal]

I like the Chronicles of Narnia.  Regardless of my disdain for Christianity if I like a story and it contains Christian themes (subtlety is generally a must) then I will read it.

 

*i admit it* Yeah, I've always loved Narnia, since I was little. (I didn't get around to reading more than the first two books until I was a teenager, though.)

 

I am definitely looking forward to the movie, it looks like quite an epic.

 

Me too, I'm really interested to see it.

 

But then here comes along this Mr. Pullman, who looks like a total Assclown and says that the Narnia books contain

""a peevish blend of racist, misogynistic and reactionary prejudice" and "not a trace" of Christian charity.

 

 

I fail to see where Narnia contains any mention of what Pullman was talking about, I've read the books 7 or 8 times each.

 

I'm not sure what he's talking about either. But I'm probably way denser than you, so.

 

And then here comes along (OBVIOUSLY) the fundy jackasses with their

 

" "We believe that God will speak the gospel of Jesus Christ through this film," "

 

Hahaha, yea fucking right.  I doubt half the people who go see the movie even know it contains Christian themes, and the other half will be too busy drooling over the visuals to give two shits about Christianity.  The only way people will come to Christ through this film is if the movie hypnotizes the audience and tells them to become Christians.

 

That reminds me of when a hypnotist would come to school (I didn't go) and some person would reportedly act like a chicken.

[Asimov]

And in regards to those who have read Pullmans books and stated that they are on the banned list of Christians....who the fuck does he think he is then??

[LadyFeline]

And in regards to those who have read Pullmans books and stated that they are on the banned list of Christians....who the fuck does he think he is then??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Er... What are you babbling about?

 

Pullman is "banned" because he is heavily critical of the Christian religion and the church. He criticizes them in virtually everything. HE IS NOT CHRISTIAN.

 

I've read His Dark Materials. Frankly, it's less nonsensical, and more uplifting in the end than any "Christian" work I've ever read.

 

Seriously, dude... You should refrain from posting when you're high or something. You get rather confusing.

[Alice]

And in regards to those who have read Pullmans books and stated that they are on the banned list of Christians....who the fuck does he think he is then??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know the context of his comments.

 

I assume it is media hype and spin. What a lark ~ setting Narnia devotees against the Pullman groupies.

 

He's a fascinating person to listen to being interviewed. He is interested in religious themes but generally thinks christianity is a bit ridiculous and damaging.

 

I think he would think fundamentalist christianity was pretty much devoid of 'christian virtue'.

 

The website I quoted contains a really good interview with Phillip Pullman. Its very funny because he keeps turning the questions around and challenging the christian interviewer on his beliefs.

 

I think PP is more agnostic with deist leanings than an atheist.

[Asimov]

Er... What are you babbling about?

Pullman is "banned" because he is heavily critical of the Christian religion and the church. He criticizes them in virtually everything. HE IS NOT CHRISTIAN.

I've read His Dark Materials. Frankly, it's less nonsensical, and more uplifting in the end than any "Christian" work I've ever read.

Seriously, dude... You should refrain from posting when you're high or something. You get rather confusing.

 

Yeeees....exactly:

 

Why would Pullman, who is noted for his criticisms of Christianity, care that Narnia contained "unchristian" messages? It doesn't make sense. My sentence was pretty...uh....fragmented I guess.

 

Seriously dude...why do you take my posts so seriously if I'm just an arrogant jackass prevert!?

 

I guess I could agree with what Hesitent said, about it being taken out of context.