Christians Are People Hiding From The Real World

[chosendarkness]

I know that when I first converted to Christianity I was pretty messed up, and as I went on with it I became 'cleaner' but still had serious issues. It was good that I stopped doing drugs, but religion became my new drug. In most cases people that habitually use drugs are running from something.

 

I realize now I was doing that with religion, the services were my high that got me through the week. You could say that's better than using drugs, but it's just as bad IMO. I've known people that died from religion.. thinking they were healed and stopped taking medicine, committed suicide because they were gay. etc.

 

A Christian I have contact with has proven themselves to be a very irresponsible person, but uses religion as an excuse for it. She doesn't have to do what she says because her failure to do it was 'Gods will'. A person like that stays irresponsible because the religion enables her to. They can't mature because they're living in a fairy tale world.

 

Anyway I needed to rant. I just had a confrontation with a Christian that has been trying to take advantage of my kindness.

[trulyfree]

That really hits home! I always wondered why God didn't make me more responsible. Now that I realize I have full responsibility for my life, things are coming together. When I screw up, I get back up and try again. No more begging God to make me a better person. I see these qualities in some Christians I know. It's frustrating.

I'm also sick of hearing how much of our everyday life is owed to God or His will. Can you imagine how much better our society would be if we all relied on ourselves and were able to take credit for our accomplishments instead of giving it to some non existent God?

[florduh]

In my experience it does seem that some people use religion as they would a drug. There were several members of my former church who were social misfits, slightly disturbed, or at the least living an unfulfilled life. The religious distraction gave them purpose and relief from their dreary/painful existence. What they would really benefit from would be professional counseling or psychiatric care. Hell, that's cheaper than tithing.

[chosendarkness]

That really hits home! I always wondered why God didn't make me more responsible. Now that I realize I have full responsibility for my life, things are coming together. When I screw up, I get back up and try again. No more begging God to make me a better person. I see these qualities in some Christians I know. It's frustrating.

I'm also sick of hearing how much of our everyday life is owed to God or His will. Can you imagine how much better our society would be if we all relied on ourselves and were able to take credit for our accomplishments instead of giving it to some non existent God?

It would be some kind of utopia. The cost of medical care go down because would take care of their bodies. We'd be wealthy, and the next logical step would be to give an opportunity for others to take responsibility for themselves. so there would be no poverty or starvation. Depression would be almost non-existent because of our high self esteem..

[chosendarkness]

In my experience it does seem that some people use religion as they would a drug. There were several members of my former church who were social misfits, slightly disturbed, or at the least living an unfulfilled life. The religious distraction gave them purpose and relief from their dreary/painful existence. What they would really benefit from would be professional counseling or psychiatric care. Hell, that's cheaper than tithing.

 

I can totally relate to that. When I got into Christianity what I really needed was professional counseling. The imaginary man wasn't cutting it. In face he was making it worse.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

When I was a christian, it was because I was scared. When I became an atheist in denial, as a pagan. I realize in retrospect something along these lines, I was using religion as an escape. My life was miserable, I was dealing with alot. Its weird how your mind will cling to whatever it can just to get through, to have some direction.

 

Ironically, I deal better with my issues when not masking them behind religion, it wasn't the help I thought it was. It usually never is, we think it helps us because it distracts us from what is really going on.

[litassio]

In my experience it does seem that some people use religion as they would a drug. There were several members of my former church who were social misfits, slightly disturbed, or at the least living an unfulfilled life. The religious distraction gave them purpose and relief from their dreary/painful existence. What they would really benefit from would be professional counseling or psychiatric care. Hell, that's cheaper than tithing.

 

But suppose there is a spiritual dimension, what in that dimension would be a truly fulfilled life? Are you sure your definition of a "fulfilled life" is universal enough?

And isn't every kind of pleasant distraction or pleasant physical or mental reward in a way like taking a drug?

All animals and humans run after pleasure and try to avoid pain most of the time.

As long as the type of "drug" does no harm, I see nothing wrong with it, even if it is of a religious of spiritual nature.

 

 

 

[florduh]

In my experience it does seem that some people use religion as they would a drug. There were several members of my former church who were social misfits, slightly disturbed, or at the least living an unfulfilled life. The religious distraction gave them purpose and relief from their dreary/painful existence. What they would really benefit from would be professional counseling or psychiatric care. Hell, that's cheaper than tithing.

 

But suppose there is a spiritual dimension, what in that dimension would be a truly fulfilled life? Are you sure your definition of a "fulfilled life" is universal enough?

And isn't every kind of pleasant distraction or pleasant physical or mental reward in a way like taking a drug?

All animals and humans run after pleasure and try to avoid pain most of the time.

As long as the type of "drug" does no harm, I see nothing wrong with it, even if it is of a religious of spiritual nature.

Well, I can't suppose such things any longer. A person's life is "fulfilled" if they are content with who they are and what they're doing. It's different for everybody. Doing concrete things that make you happy or content in the short term is nothing at all like devoting your life to a drug or drug substitute. Religion can provide comfort at times, but religion also causes demonstrable harm (just look around this site) and maintaining belief without foundation simply because it feels good is to deny reality.

[chosendarkness]

In my experience it does seem that some people use religion as they would a drug. There were several members of my former church who were social misfits, slightly disturbed, or at the least living an unfulfilled life. The religious distraction gave them purpose and relief from their dreary/painful existence. What they would really benefit from would be professional counseling or psychiatric care. Hell, that's cheaper than tithing.

 

But suppose there is a spiritual dimension, what in that dimension would be a truly fulfilled life? Are you sure your definition of a "fulfilled life" is universal enough?

And isn't every kind of pleasant distraction or pleasant physical or mental reward in a way like taking a drug?

All animals and humans run after pleasure and try to avoid pain most of the time.

As long as the type of "drug" does no harm, I see nothing wrong with it, even if it is of a religious of spiritual nature.

Running from the real world always causes harm in one way or another. A person addicted to drugs doesn't live a happy life even though that's what they were aiming for. It's a miserable life actually. From what I've seen of fundamentalism it's the same way. People often deny it and wear happy masks, but living under the rule of a sadistic deity is not pleasure. It's more like a bipolar nightmare.

[litassio]

Running from the real world always causes harm in one way or another. A person addicted to drugs doesn't live a happy life even though that's what they were aiming for. It's a miserable life actually.

 

I would agree if you define harm as 'not helping to support the society'. But what is the "real world"?

My world is whatever happens to be in my mind at this moment.

How that world is experienced may or may not depend on having taken drugs or it may even depend on a spiritually altered state of mind.

Who is to say which state of mind is the more real and which is less real?

People with near-death experiences often start to wonder how real their usual state of mind actually is.

 

But from a social viewpoint I would agree that running from society is a way of harming that society and may eventually disturb the mental balance of the person concerned.

 

 

 

[florduh]

My world is whatever happens to be in my mind at this moment.

How that world is experienced may or may not depend on having taken drugs or it may even depend on a spiritually altered state of mind.

Who is to say which state of mind is the more real and which is less real?

An unaltered mind experiences reality but psychologically or drug induced states are just that - altered states that distort or even replace reality. The result of accepting these hallucinations as real or valid can yield devastating results. At the very least you develop an incorrect view of the universe.

[chosendarkness]

Running from the real world always causes harm in one way or another. A person addicted to drugs doesn't live a happy life even though that's what they were aiming for. It's a miserable life actually.

 

I would agree if you define harm as 'not helping to support the society'. But what is the "real world"?

My world is whatever happens to be in my mind at this moment.

How that world is experienced may or may not depend on having taken drugs or it may even depend on a spiritually altered state of mind.

Who is to say which state of mind is the more real and which is less real?

People with near-death experiences often start to wonder how real their usual state of mind actually is.

 

But from a social viewpoint I would agree that running from society is a way of harming that society and may eventually disturb the mental balance of the person concerned.

 

 

 

The real world is a place where things don't always work out the way you want them to. It might be the loss of a loved one that you can't accept, maybe something or someone disappointed you, maybe you did something and can't forgive yourself, whatever it is that causes you to want to run and not have to face it. The feeling don't go away though, trying to avoid it just makes it worse.

[Galien]

My big problem was always the dissonance between the reality I lived with, and the one the church told me was there. I constantly aruged and disagreed about what was going on. I remember we studied this pathetic crap called the search for significance which basically posited that all the mental and emotional problems people have happen because they believe satan's lies instead of god's truths. I was gobsmacked that they could be so ignorant and asked if they realised how much guilt that was putting on already mentally and emotionally ill people? They didn't care. Apparently I was deceived by the world and chose to believe satan's lies. Eventually I was able to see these people had no idea what it meant to be mentally or emotionally challenged by anything. They were doing further damage to already damaged people and they couldn't see it.

 

In some ways I am lucky that my brain has been hardwired to experience reality at its rawest. Didn't stop me from trying and trying to see things their way. Took me 36 years to realise I never would. I always believed as a christian we should man up and grow the balls to see things as they really are and deal with them with honesty and courage, not retreat behind the "lets pray about it" mantra which really means I will sit on my ass and do nothing and wait for someone else (god) to fix it. I found that incredibly frustrating since I believe that only I can fix my problems.

 

My mistake was always believing that christians were honest. They are anything but. Honest people dont hide from anything, ever.

[chosendarkness]

My big problem was always the dissonance between the reality I lived with, and the one the church told me was there. I constantly aruged and disagreed about what was going on. I remember we studied this pathetic crap called the search for significance which basically posited that all the mental and emotional problems people have happen because they believe satan's lies instead of god's truths. I was gobsmacked that they could be so ignorant and asked if they realised how much guilt that was putting on already mentally and emotionally ill people? They didn't care. Apparently I was deceived by the world and chose to believe satan's lies. Eventually I was able to see these people had no idea what it meant to be mentally or emotionally challenged by anything. They were doing further damage to already damaged people and they couldn't see it.

 

In some ways I am lucky that my brain has been hardwired to experience reality at its rawest. Didn't stop me from trying and trying to see things their way. Took me 36 years to realise I never would. I always believed as a christian we should man up and grow the balls to see things as they really are and deal with them with honesty and courage, not retreat behind the "lets pray about it" mantra which really means I will sit on my ass and do nothing and wait for someone else (god) to fix it. I found that incredibly frustrating since I believe that only I can fix my problems.

 

My mistake was always believing that christians were honest. They are anything but. Honest people dont hide from anything, ever.

Wow I understand what you're saying. Unlike you though I have the tendency to retreat from life, maybe that's why I was so drawn to Christianity. I also did the 'Search for Significance' (wasn't that Kay Arthur?) thinking this is exactly what I need to heal my emotional scars. It didn't work of course, it just messed me up more. I was in a tremendous amount of confusion and emotional pain, but couldn't get therapy because I was taught to distrust 'secular' counselors.

 

I went to a church for counseling one time, they were supposed to be really spiritual people. I spilled my guts to those psychos and their diagnosis was 'I wasn't truly saved'. The answer was to pray for me to try to get me to 'really' accept Jesus and kept asking me 'Can you look god in the eyes?' At the time I had a hard time looking people in the eyes. After the session I felt like total shit and even cried. I went through most of my time as a Christian trying to have 'adequate' faith. It was a life of deep lows and intense highs, much of the time on the low end, I guess that's what they call bipolar now. After I left Christianity it got better, now several years later life seems to be pretty even.

[Galien]

My life is a lot better too chosen. Sadly, I never had the highs that went with the lows, just years of misery. I cannot believe that life has improved, so often I wanted to take my own life because I believed it never could.

[BrotherJosh]

the 'Search for Significance' (wasn't that Kay Arthur?)

 

Robert S. Mcgee...I think I actually have it still laying around! Is that what you are talking about? If so it's a pretty funny book to read another time around.

 

I was battling depression and issues with my family about five years ago when someone gave me that book. It had the usual pop psychology stuff you'd hear on Dr. Phil mixed in with how much Jesus loves you.

[Galien]

Didn't leave me with a sense of amusement, I just wanted to jam it up the group leaders ass really. Honestly if I could do something to stop churches counselling people I would.

[chosendarkness]

My life is a lot better too chosen. Sadly, I never had the highs that went with the lows, just years of misery. I cannot believe that life has improved, so often I wanted to take my own life because I believed it never could.

I'm glad it's improved for you. Was it something you learned in life that made it better?

[Galien]

My life is a lot better too chosen. Sadly, I never had the highs that went with the lows, just years of misery. I cannot believe that life has improved, so often I wanted to take my own life because I believed it never could.

I'm glad it's improved for you. Was it something you learned in life that made it better?

 

Several things helped.

 

Realising that chrisitianity was making me utterly miserable and hooking into my already traumatised, anxiety and depression riddled psyche.

 

Realising thats christians were assholes.

 

Learning to trust my gut instead of listen to other people.

 

Stop assuming that everyone else tells the truth just because I do.

 

A combination of christianity, an abusive mother and a scrupulous conscience turned me into a person who thought I had to be perfect to be worth the sacrifice of jesus. It is a wicked burden to place on oneself. I needed to let it go.

 

Sex is great, it is a comfort I need in my life.

 

I am worthy of self love instead of self loathing, I am not perfect and don't have to be. I don't care what other people think and I don't let them decide for me who I am.

[chosendarkness]

the 'Search for Significance' (wasn't that Kay Arthur?)

 

Robert S. Mcgee...I think I actually have it still laying around! Is that what you are talking about? If so it's a pretty funny book to read another time around.

 

I was battling depression and issues with my family about five years ago when someone gave me that book. It had the usual pop psychology stuff you'd hear on Dr. Phil mixed in with how much Jesus loves you.

 

I was thinking of something else. If I remember correctly I didn't jive with the significance book because it probably wasn't charismatic enough for me at the time. I was pretty into charismatic beliefs, I felt the most comfortable there because the people were as fucked up as I was. Now I'm noticing I feel more comfortable around 'healthier' people, before they seemed like strange foreigners.

 

I have a disdain for that Christian lady I mentioned earlier. She pushes my two main buttons, not wanting to be ripped off and charismatic religion. She lies to my face in order to hustle me and talks about god said this and that to her. Maybe dealing with this is a good thing for me, or maybe I should try to avoid her, I don't know. Right now I'm working out a way to get her to not rip me off, and hopefully she'll get fed up and leave when she realizes I won't be hustled.

[chosendarkness]

My life is a lot better too chosen. Sadly, I never had the highs that went with the lows, just years of misery. I cannot believe that life has improved, so often I wanted to take my own life because I believed it never could.

I'm glad it's improved for you. Was it something you learned in life that made it better?

 

Several things helped.

 

Realising that chrisitianity was making me utterly miserable and hooking into my already traumatised, anxiety and depression riddled psyche.

 

Realising thats christians were assholes.

 

Learning to trust my gut instead of listen to other people.

 

Stop assuming that everyone else tells the truth just because I do.

 

A combination of christianity, an abusive mother and a scrupulous conscience turned me into a person who thought I had to be perfect to be worth the sacrifice of jesus. It is a wicked burden to place on oneself. I needed to let it go.

 

Sex is great, it is a comfort I need in my life.

 

I am worthy of self love instead of self loathing, I am not perfect and don't have to be. I don't care what other people think and I don't let them decide for me who I am.

 

I totally relate to those. A couple I need to realize more in my life. Are there actions you took to learn self-love? I'm just now getting the point I feel confident to do things in my life I've been afraid of before.

[trulyfree]

That really hits home! I always wondered why God didn't make me more responsible. Now that I realize I have full responsibility for my life, things are coming together. When I screw up, I get back up and try again. No more begging God to make me a better person. I see these qualities in some Christians I know. It's frustrating.

I'm also sick of hearing how much of our everyday life is owed to God or His will. Can you imagine how much better our society would be if we all relied on ourselves and were able to take credit for our accomplishments instead of giving it to some non existent God?

It would be some kind of utopia. The cost of medical care go down because would take care of their bodies. We'd be wealthy, and the next logical step would be to give an opportunity for others to take responsibility for themselves. so there would be no poverty or starvation. Depression would be almost non-existent because of our high self esteem..

LOL

[chosendarkness]

That really hits home! I always wondered why God didn't make me more responsible. Now that I realize I have full responsibility for my life, things are coming together. When I screw up, I get back up and try again. No more begging God to make me a better person. I see these qualities in some Christians I know. It's frustrating.

I'm also sick of hearing how much of our everyday life is owed to God or His will. Can you imagine how much better our society would be if we all relied on ourselves and were able to take credit for our accomplishments instead of giving it to some non existent God?

It would be some kind of utopia. The cost of medical care go down because would take care of their bodies. We'd be wealthy, and the next logical step would be to give an opportunity for others to take responsibility for themselves. so there would be no poverty or starvation. Depression would be almost non-existent because of our high self esteem..

LOL

We're all sitting in a prison of waiting to do something. I liked it better in the 80's when feeling good wasn't something to be embarassed about.

[Elaine]

I know that when I first converted to Christianity I was pretty messed up, and as I went on with it I became 'cleaner' but still had serious issues. It was good that I stopped doing drugs, but religion became my new drug. In most cases people that habitually use drugs are running from something.

 

I realize now I was doing that with religion, the services were my high that got me through the week. You could say that's better than using drugs, but it's just as bad IMO. I've known people that died from religion.. thinking they were healed and stopped taking medicine, committed suicide because they were gay. etc.

 

A Christian I have contact with has proven themselves to be a very irresponsible person, but uses religion as an excuse for it. She doesn't have to do what she says because her failure to do it was 'Gods will'. A person like that stays irresponsible because the religion enables her to. They can't mature because they're living in a fairy tale world.

 

Anyway I needed to rant. I just had a confrontation with a Christian that has been trying to take advantage of my kindness.

 

I so agree. religion is just another fuzzy wuzzy way of protecting us from the realities of the world, and giving us an excuse to not take responsibility for our own choices.It's an escape. there are loads of them around. All addictions are based on a foundation of "making us feel better".

[AKR]

I know that when I first converted to Christianity I was pretty messed up, and as I went on with it I became 'cleaner' but still had serious issues. It was good that I stopped doing drugs, but religion became my new drug. In most cases people that habitually use drugs are running from something.

 

I realize now I was doing that with religion, the services were my high that got me through the week. You could say that's better than using drugs, but it's just as bad IMO. I've known people that died from religion.. thinking they were healed and stopped taking medicine, committed suicide because they were gay. etc.

 

A Christian I have contact with has proven themselves to be a very irresponsible person, but uses religion as an excuse for it. She doesn't have to do what she says because her failure to do it was 'Gods will'. A person like that stays irresponsible because the religion enables her to. They can't mature because they're living in a fairy tale world.

 

Anyway I needed to rant. I just had a confrontation with a Christian that has been trying to take advantage of my kindness.

 

 

Thanks for sharing that. I'm always interesting in hearing how people use religion to deal with their drug problems. It seems that they magically find god when they're trying to quit drugs.