Guest end3 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 A thought that crossed my mind: What is a mature response to others.....emotional or logical....or a mixture of the two. Please justify your answer and explain why one of the three has precedence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeboh Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Response to what? It depends on the situation. In most situations, I let logic win. That's mostly because that's my personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I hope that with maturity comes balance, and so my inclination is to believe that a mature approach to others requires both reason and emotion. I've always leaned towards the side of reason but as I grow older I see the need for a greater emotional awareness of myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Response to what? It depends on the situation. In most situations, I let logic win. That's mostly because that's my personality. Response to another with regard to anything I guess. I am assuming that you are letting logic win because you understand that is the best regard for another person....via your personality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It has to be a mixture of the two - logic and emotion - compassion and empathy are what I personally strive for. There can be no cut and dried answer because it depends on the situation. It can be very difficult but we must try to see the point of view of others whenever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 If somebody wanted advice on how to open a stuck jar lid, I would probably use logic. Best not to get emotional about the fucking lid that won't fucking open. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Emotions can cloud otherwise good judgement. It really depends on the context as well. If we're discussing some impersonal topic like politics, religion or science than I expect emotion to have no part in the discussion. If someone is opening up to me about something personally traumatic than an emotionally based logical response is required. There is no one size fits all glove for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 A thought that crossed my mind: What is a mature response to others.....emotional or logical....or a mixture of the two. Please justify your answer and explain why one of the three has precedence. I chime in with what other's here have said, maturity is the ability to pick the right response for a given time. Study what The Golden Mean is. Virtue is the ability to get the right balance in every situation, not too much, and not too little. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_mean_%28philosophy%29 (And btw, I unpinned your other thread since you came back.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Emotions can cloud otherwise good judgement. It really depends on the context as well. If we're discussing some impersonal topic like politics, religion or science than I expect emotion to have no part in the discussion. If someone is opening up to me about something personally traumatic than an emotionally based logical response is required. There is no one size fits all glove for this. This is where a lot of unbelievers fall off their perch. You cannot use logic to appeal to a person with an emotion based faith, its pointless. Religion is far from impersonal for some, and I suspect politics also elicits strong emotion. Logic and science had no part in my deconversion, and I suspect it doesn't for those who feel emotionally attached to god in the first place. I am a very emotional person, and I find it highly offensive to be treated like an idiot because I do not exude pure logic. I find pure logic dry, aloof and not touching the heart of the matter. I agree with Ouroboros, one needs to find the right balance to suit the occasion. Coupled with this should be the ability to address another who still believes in something you now consider a fairy tale without treating them like an idiot. People are free to believe whatever they like. I find the arrogance behind the derisive comments on things other people believe immature and petty in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 A thought that crossed my mind: What is a mature response to others.....emotional or logical....or a mixture of the two. Please justify your answer and explain why one of the three has precedence. Is this an appeal to emotions? In light of this site, theists come here positing the exact same drivel time and again and maybe we miss the opportunity to deconvert them by telling them to fuck off on the high horse they rode in on. In my experience, one seldom finds debates where the debate is on a mutually sound foundation, one is based on emotion and the other on facts. The insulting thing to me (emotion) is that they assume to have some fucking god eye and can tell us where we all went wrong w/o really trying to understand it from our perspective when all we really need is for this god of theirs to make a personal appearance, irrefutable, and requiring no faith (emotion) whatsoever. This sadly never happens. As for logic and emotion, as has been stated, one applies the best to the situation and no one would tell a believer at a funeral that their loved one has ceased to exist and that is that unlike some theists that would infer that an unbeliever missed their chance and now are rotting in hell or are being judged. Theists are so good at making shit up that it astounds me that funerals are used to elicit an emotional response from the bereaved instead of simply lying like they always do. I think many here can agree the illogical doctrines of xianity caused emotional trauma to some degree in one way or another. Even when some here choose to return to the faith, they do not really get much uphill - we already know that once you have dismissed emotion and replaced it with logic and rational thinking, it is impossible to go back. They are left at peace and usually they come back. Dunno if that answers your question and excuse the ramblings - that was me being polite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 If somebody wanted advice on how to open a stuck jar lid, I would probably use logic. Best not to get emotional about the fucking lid that won't fucking open. Phanta Personally, I think it's impossible to be free of emotion, even at our most reasonable. "Oh the lid won't open?", she says. This probably has a tinge of curiosity, an emotional component. "Try running the lid under some hot water." This may be accompanied by a sense of expectancy and pride (emotional components) of knowing this method has worked before. And why would she even bother to offer advice at all? Maybe because the advisor cares (emotional component) about the one who asked for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It has to be a mixture of the two - logic and emotion - compassion and empathy are what I personally strive for. There can be no cut and dried answer because it depends on the situation. It can be very difficult but we must try to see the point of view of others whenever possible. "Whenever possible". IMO, I think this speaks to the mature response being empathy "whenever possible", that we can have eduction, logic, etc., but those are means to an endpoint that resides in emotion. Does knowledge and logic play a role in emotional maturity? I feel sure. I just don't see education as the endpoint. What use is the knowledge of removing the lid from the jar in itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 "Whenever possible". IMO, I think this speaks to the mature response being empathy "whenever possible", that we can have eduction, logic, etc., but those are means to an endpoint that resides in emotion. Does knowledge and logic play a role in emotional maturity? I feel sure. I just don't see education as the endpoint. What use is the knowledge of removing the lid from the jar in itself? And also add to this that you are trying to make a logical point right now. Your drive for making this point is emotional, but you're not making an emotional argument. So you, yourself, are making the point that arguments are mixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 "Whenever possible". IMO, I think this speaks to the mature response being empathy "whenever possible", that we can have eduction, logic, etc., but those are means to an endpoint that resides in emotion. Does knowledge and logic play a role in emotional maturity? I feel sure. I just don't see education as the endpoint. What use is the knowledge of removing the lid from the jar in itself? And also add to this that you are trying to make a logical point right now. Your drive for making this point is emotional, but you're not making an emotional argument. So you, yourself, are making the point that arguments are mixtures. Yes, and I do many things to gain knowledge in order to "perpitrate" emotion. I just think emotion is ultimately the greater standpoint. I am open for examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yes, and I do many things to gain knowledge in order to "perpitrate" emotion. I just think emotion is ultimately the greater standpoint. I am open for examples? Emotions are fickle, so it's very hard to trust emotions. There are plenty of examples in my life where I followed what I felt instead of what made sense, and it didn't turn out well. But I'm not going to bring those examples up. But on the other hand, there are times when it's wise to follow what you feel rather than what is logical, because of the complexity of other parties' involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 My simple reponse to this would be the best answer is the one that gets your point across without sounding like a douche. Now, after presenting my self as one, as others have said it is situtational. But the other side is purpose. For example, You asked this question. So my question would be what is the purpose in asking? Genuine curiousity? had an Idea but you weren't sure if it was logically sound? An attempt to find a "better" way to debate with non-christian's? So, if the purpose is just to have a fun discussion then use whatever wit will work. If it is to make a point, then make the point and follow it up logically AND emotionally. See which works better for the person your talking to. My opinion is that logic drags you in, but emotions are most easily maniplutated. Logically, I need a new car, because we are having a baby. So logicaly, we need a 4-door something. Emotionally, my wife wants a Mazda 5 because she likes it. No logic behind it. However, we both know my truck isn't going to work with two kids. So, Logically for me it is best to go with her emotional wants because I have no emotional prefernce. just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Emotion and logic/reason to me are two different forms of description making, one is better then the other on say religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 My simple reponse to this would be the best answer is the one that gets your point across without sounding like a douche. Now, after presenting my self as one, as others have said it is situtational. But the other side is purpose. For example, You asked this question. So my question would be what is the purpose in asking? Genuine curiousity? had an Idea but you weren't sure if it was logically sound? An attempt to find a "better" way to debate with non-christian's? So, if the purpose is just to have a fun discussion then use whatever wit will work. If it is to make a point, then make the point and follow it up logically AND emotionally. See which works better for the person your talking to. My opinion is that logic drags you in, but emotions are most easily maniplutated. Logically, I need a new car, because we are having a baby. So logicaly, we need a 4-door something. Emotionally, my wife wants a Mazda 5 because she likes it. No logic behind it. However, we both know my truck isn't going to work with two kids. So, Logically for me it is best to go with her emotional wants because I have no emotional prefernce. just my thoughts. The other day in church one lady was expounding on the TOOLS of anger management as being equal to the motivation that drives us to utilize these tools. I felt she was particularly wrong with her statement. And I think utimately we use emotion in an immature manner when we are young.....followed by the learning of the tools (reading, eduction, experience).....and then followed by a mature stance of using emotions with the tools in hand to satisfy not only our needs but others as well. So I think it is a mixture, but that logic is not the end goal. Hope that clarifies. (No better way to test a thought than bring it somewhere where you are guaranteed disagreement. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 So I think it is a mixture, but that logic is not the end goal. Hope that clarifies. I always thought that the end goal was not all killing each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 It has to be a mixture of the two - logic and emotion - compassion and empathy are what I personally strive for. There can be no cut and dried answer because it depends on the situation. It can be very difficult but we must try to see the point of view of others whenever possible. "Whenever possible". IMO, I think this speaks to the mature response being empathy "whenever possible", that we can have eduction, logic, etc., but those are means to an endpoint that resides in emotion. Does knowledge and logic play a role in emotional maturity? I feel sure. I just don't see education as the endpoint. What use is the knowledge of removing the lid from the jar in itself? Yes, I said whenever possible because I recognize there may be situations where it is impossible to see the other's point of view. It may be so irrational or counterintuitive you don't know where they are coming from. I don't see education as the endpoint either. But then again, it depends on what you mean by "education". Do you mean rote memorization type of learning or do you mean practical life experience? I think it could be possible to get good and mad at the jar lid and find a way to loosen it. Beat on the sucker! I would rap it on the side of the table or countertop. A few solid hits usually does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 (No better way to test a thought than bring it somewhere where you are guaranteed disagreement. ) *laugh* True that. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 A thought that crossed my mind: What is a mature response to others.....emotional or logical....or a mixture of the two. Please justify your answer and explain why one of the three has precedence. "What is a mature response to others" - it depends on what the other is prompting you to do. If the other person tearfully declares, "I am so angry my head is about to explode . . ." then an empathetic verbal response with non-verbal indications of the intention to listen non-judgmentally may be the mature response. If it turns out that the problem is that the appliance store where you bought a new washer dryer mishandled the order and is giving you the runaround, it may be time to switch to "reason mode" and figure out the best way to get the situation resolved - a chore best reserved for level heads and ice water in the veins. Of course, when approaching the store manager or the regional manager, a calculated display of hot anger may be what reason calls for. So it is a mixture. There's no way to know for sure when and in what situation a non-emotional "logic only" response to others will be in order or when an emotion-laden posture will get the optimal result desired by both parties. I don't think maturity is contained in the "logic vs emotion" dialectic. This seems like a false dichotomy with no need to synthesize between the two. Maturity is a matter of perspective. Maturity is the response "I've seen this situation come around before in my life or in the lives of others and here is how it worked out." Maturity is the ability to examine situations from the perspective "don't sweat the small stuff and in the greater scheme - this is small stuff." Maturity reduces fear based emotion, amplifies the ability to empathize with others and enhances the ability to employ reason because time has provided the mature person with experience upon which to premise his or her conclusions and temper his or her emotions. I think the real dichotomy is not "emotion vs. logic" but "instinct vs. logic." Do you respond to situations based on gut level intuitions, or do you sit down , write out (or mentally take note of) pros and cons, deliberate within yourself and draw a conclusion based on clearly and consciously identified premises? Maturity can inform both stances. This is where one response vs another is a matter of personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 2, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2011 “A mature person is one who does not think only in absolutes, who is able to be objective even when deeply stirred emotionally, who has learned that there is both good and bad in all people and all things, and who walks humbly and deals charitably” - Eleanor Roosevelt I have to agree with Mrs. R. The immature are ruled by emotion, maturity calls for rational response. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Damn Florduh, you're on a roll. I had to [+] you a second time today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 2, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2011 Damn Florduh, you're on a roll. It's a gift. I am only a tool. (Please, no +1 just because I said I was a tool.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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