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Goodbye Jesus

Entering the lion's den tonight


Poonis

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I have come to think that I may be somewhat of a sadist, because what I am about to do tonight may not be considered a pleasant experience for myself.

 

Todd Friel, a mouthpiece for Talk the Walk Ministries on my local fundagelical radio station (AM 980, kkms.com), hosts a monthly meeting on how to witness to non-christians. I have read their Witness Manual 2.0 many times, and after months of listening to this christer, I am ready to do battle.

 

My mission is to plant seeds of doubt within this group.

 

My Strength? Suprise attack with psychological and philosophical questioning

My Weakness? Pretty girls

 

I suspect by the end of the night, I will have either been thrown out, become a christian, or have successfully planted the Almighty Seed-Of-Doubt. Maybe I will be lucky enough to have my adventure (and subsequent portrayal as a heretic) mentioned on the air.

 

We shall see.

 

/puts on EAC armor

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where will the debate be? will it be audio or on a forum? is there a link to where i can observe....pleeeeeeeeeease

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Good luck.

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where will the debate be? will it be audio or on a forum? is there a link to where i can observe....pleeeeeeeeeease

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Oh, it's not a debate or the like. It is a 'Christian Witness Training' deal. They assume only christians will attend, to learn how to convert non-christians to christianity.

 

I will be one against many.

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Oh that sounds like fun! well, a fun idea.. surely not one I'd try to tackle. Let us know all about it!

 

So, this is a meeting at/of a radio station audience? Interesting.

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hot damn...sounds like fun...can you video tape it? spyglasses with a cam streamed on the internet? cmon...this is too much fun to be kept to yourself!!!

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Gosh! It takes nerves of steel just to think the thought of going to a thing like that!!! You need plenty of best wishes, and I hope it doesn't end up in a big brawl at the end.

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Damn, Poonis. Up until this very night, I considered you a fairly rational human being. That's not stirring the shit. That's diving into it.

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Good luck! I hope you get out of there with all your limbs intact!

 

:eek:

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Alright, I'm back. Although I did not stay for the whole meeting, I did stay from 7:00pm to 8:00pm (I have to start work at 5am tomorrow).

 

I will be adding more to this tomorrow, as this may be very interesting to some who are interested in de-converting christians.

 

This group of christians are specifically a group who's goal is literally to go out street-preaching ("witnessing") on city corners and public events. This is the den that I enter.

 

After arriving, I have to admit that I was nervous. I felt like I had 'ATHEIST' stamped on my forehead. Arriving early, I had a couple smokes to calm the nerves and rethought (and wisely so) my plan of attack. Tonight was re-established as Re-con Night. I needed to get a feel of the surroundings, the people, and the ideology. This is a must for analysis, because, although I despise the worship of ignorance that is christianity, I cannot assume I know what will work and what won't. I am serious about my attempts to de-convert a christian, and I will not waste it by doing something stupid like standing up during prayer and yelling something like "your god does not exist haha", then running for the exit.

 

I am the sheep among the den of lions, and I will not reveal myself for them. They must work for it; they must earn it.

 

I arrived early, and one man (appears to be group leader) expounds to me how he saved some poor drunkard just last tuesday. A woman (who makes it known she is an english teacher at Crown College) asks me what church I attend; I reply "I don't".

 

The meeting starts about 7:00pm, and there is a total of 11 people, of which I am one. We start with a prayer and I bow my head and fold my hands. The ramblings of the prayer drag on and on; I wanted to just leave right there.

 

Next the leader hands out a worksheet (of which I will scan and upload tomorrow after work) filled with fill-in-the-blank questions, which are answered based upon the bible verses they are associated with. We take turns reading verses, and I read verses from my KJV bible twice.

 

Next, the subject is Hell. These poor people are deathly afraid of something they have never experienced. I feel slight pity for them. This is their weak psychological foundation that they use for converting non-christians: "Fear". Fear hell, fear eternal torment, pain, suffering, fear fire coursing through your veins without end. An old saying pops into my head at this point: 'when in doubt, keep your mouth shut'.

 

After this, it is question-and-answer time, and they talk about religious occurances in their lives. I say nothing. At this point, it is 8:00pm and I have to leave. I learn that I am leaving just as they are about the do "role-playing" where one person is the christian doing the witnessing and the other is the non-christian dangerously close to hell-fire.

 

I wish I could have stayed. Next time I plan on it.

 

This is just a background of tonight's event, I will upload a scan of the worksheet and other literature I was given that we talked about tonight.

 

Jesus christ on a fucking pogo-stick, if there is a hell, there is a fucking Welcome Home parade waiting for me.

 

:jesus::jerkoff:

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Sounds like an interesting project- keep us updated.

 

I'd definitely agree that confronting them on your first visit won't accomplish anything- you'd just end up in a shouting match, and they'll have more reason than ever to hate/fear unbelievers. Take your time and study them, let them get used to your presence so that you blend into their natural habitat...

 

I'm conflicted about deconverting christians. On one hand, I'd like to expose people to the truth, and free them from a harmful and outright false believe system, but I have a few problems with this. I'd be basically attacking the ideology that they've (they claim) built their life around... First of all, wouldn't it be hypocritical of me to try to deconvert christians... even though I'm routinely pissed at them for not respecting my beliefs (or lack thereof)? Secondly, do I have any real chance of success? Thirdly... I don't want to get my ass kicked.

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Sure. Go in there and debate them, if you like the feeling of your head beating against a rock. I admire your fortitude, and I hope your tactics are sound.

 

Me, I prefer more quick, effective paradigm-shift methods, like terror, guerilla warfare, rape, torture, imprisonment and genocide ( Just ask ol' Saddam how to change people's minds.)

 

Excuse me while I go back to making pipe bombs.

 

:ph34r:

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If I may suggest it, the next time you go when you get to the role-playing, ask questions that you want to ask as sincerely as possible. If you're questioned about them, just say that these are questions you've heard from other people and would like to know how to answer them. The best questions, I think, are those that are from the Bible, but go against traditional Christian beliefs. For example, you could ask if hell is eternal, why does the Bible state that there is reincarnation (Matthew 11:11-14, Matthew 17:10-13, John 9:1-2)? If they bring up Hebrews 9:27, just ask them who we should believe, Paul or Jesus?

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If I may suggest it, the next time you go when you get to the role-playing, ask questions that you want to ask as sincerely as possible.  If you're questioned about them, just say that these are questions you've heard from other people and would like to know how to answer them.  The best questions, I think, are those that are from the Bible, but go against traditional Christian beliefs.  For example, you could ask if hell is eternal, why does the Bible state that there is reincarnation (Matthew 11:11-14, Matthew 17:10-13, John 9:1-2)?  If they bring up Hebrews 9:27, just ask them who we should believe, Paul or Jesus?

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Excellent plan. Watch them go :shrug:

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Alright, I'm back. Although I did not stay for the whole meeting, I did stay from  I learn that I am leaving just as they are about the do "role-playing" where one person is the christian doing the witnessing and the other is the non-christian dangerously close to hell-fire.

 

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It would be perfect if you could get the role of a non believer; especially if they let you ad lib. They will never be ready for the types of objections you could throw out. Now that I'd like to see.

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Just one question Poonis...

 

Where there any pretty girls there?

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Excellent plan.  Watch them go  :shrug:

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More likely, watch the ridiculous apologetics fly. :wicked:

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Hehehe. This plan is awesome. Can't wait to read what happens next.

 

I could never do something like this though. I'm not that good of an actor. There's no way I could play the part of a Christian convincingly. Just thinking about it reminds me of a Homer Simpson quote:

 

Homer: Dear God of England, please get me out of this. If you do, I promise to spell color with a 'u' and use the metric system with every cubic milliliter of blood in my...oh I can't do it! It's too stupid.
Clever ambiguity there...
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I am serious about my attempts to de-convert a christian

 

 

Anyone remember the Omega Man?

I just cant help but thinking about charleton heston as a doctor living in a world full of biodieseased fanatical zombies, and the potential he has to save them from themselves--and whether he should bother trying.

 

Or, like turning a vampire back to normal...

 

Or, like Day of the Dead, where "Bub" a zombie, is being re-civilized by the living...although that one doesn't work out too well in the end either.

 

 

 

Good luck Poonis..but it just sounds creepy (to me with my warhped head)

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Sure.  Go in there and debate them, if you like the feeling of your head beating against a rock.  I admire your fortitude, and I hope your tactics are sound.

 

Me, I prefer more quick, effective paradigm-shift methods, like terror, guerilla warfare, rape, torture, imprisonment and genocide  ( Just ask ol' Saddam how to change people's minds.)

 

Excuse me while I go back to making pipe bombs.

 

:ph34r:

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Ahh, but I'm not debating anyone. I am going to sow seeds of doubt. I will be as one of them, and when they grow to trust me, it is then that I will have free reign to plant doubt.

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If I may suggest it, the next time you go when you get to the role-playing, ask questions that you want to ask as sincerely as possible.  If you're questioned about them, just say that these are questions you've heard from other people and would like to know how to answer them.  The best questions, I think, are those that are from the Bible, but go against traditional Christian beliefs.  For example, you could ask if hell is eternal, why does the Bible state that there is reincarnation (Matthew 11:11-14, Matthew 17:10-13, John 9:1-2)?  If they bring up Hebrews 9:27, just ask them who we should believe, Paul or Jesus?

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After learning they do role-playing, I have determined this is my 'in'. This is probably the heart of when they are most open to listening to me. But I have to first be as they are, and I will role play first by trying to act as if I am converting non-believers. After they approve of my attempts, I will then play the unbeliever. ;)

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Just one question Poonis...

 

Where there any pretty girls there?

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Not really. The teacher was ok, but not enough to convert me to xianity :)

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regarding debating, refer to my other posts:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...381entry93381

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?auto...ogid=48&eid=159

 

Debating scripture does *absolutely nothing* when trying to de-convert a christian. Just as it solidifies your rejection of it, likewise it solidifies the faith of the christian. Avoid debating scripture when doing a de-conversion.

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OK here it is, the worksheet that we studied and answered as part of the 'new member' indoctrination.

 

I did not mention this yesterday, as I wanted to wait until I had a scan of it. Look down where I circled in red. Do you believe this? These are the answers I was given.

 

Now, of course, this is all purely metaphorical... but would it still have been taken as metaphorical 300+ years ago?

 

worksheet.gif

 

Next meeting I will bring an audio recorder so I can post our role-playing, although I will ask first if they mind me using it.

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