I Got A Surprise Visit. Need Help

[jdog]

I am a little upset.

 

I haven't seen this person in well over a year. I left the church in '08. and pretty much lost contact with Christian friends.

 

Well today this person turned up on my porch. I was kind of shocked but welcomed her in.

 

And I wish she hadn't visited because now I am all upside down and upset.

 

 

She pretty much got to know the latest news and all what has been going on with me, I had surgery...blah blah..

but then she asked me about my spiritual life. she asked if I still pray and talk to God and if I still read my bible.

 

i told her that I do not read the bible anymore. she knew I quit church. I told her that that I don't know if God exists and is real and I am not that same person she knew from 3 yrs ago. I told her that I have prayed a couple of times. which is true I have and it was when i was tired and really worried about something. but after I prayed I felt stupid and realized I had just did something that was a habit when difficult things are on my mind. I have been doing fine in my neutral zone and my Agnostic point of view. I have been resolved and been happy with that stance of not knowing.

 

but today this woman told me it's satan trying to confuse me and that he is real. I said that I don't even know if god exists let alone satan and so this just gave her more fodder.

 

Man I am not good at this kind of confrontation. I know some of you would have told her to get lost and not even answered her questions. I just felt a little intimidated I suppose. I have anxiety and not good in situations like that and her visit was out of the blue. I wasn't really prepared and perhaps a little vulnerable. I do have anxiety and have been depressed more just recently. Part of me is now doubting again and questioning it all and her visit has really disturbed me. I wish she never came around. I haven't the heart to tell her to leave me alone. she e-mails me once in a while and has invited me for lunch but nothing has come of it.

 

I am a soft person and don't want to hurt people's feelings. she is an older person too which is why I don't want to be mean to her. but she is heavily involved in the church and knew me from bible study days. she knew me when I was a Jesus loving spirit filled person. and she is concerned for my spiritual welfare.

 

she ended up by praying for me in my living room. I know..I know. I just allowed her to do it. I didn't want to say no she couldn't. I listened to the prayer and it just didn't seem right. felt weird. having this person in my house praying to someone I don't even know exists. It didn't make sense to me the things she was praying. I can't believe I was just like her doing that. believing it.

but I still said Amen after she prayed. Like I fell right back into that mode.

 

It just got me all disturbed and I came straight here because I know you guys will know where I am coming from.

I suppose I need some reassurance that she was here to just try and suck me back in and that none of what she was saying is real.

 

I am aware that she pretty much came to my house to be nosy and not really want to know about me as such but about my spiritual self. I do see that. and that did irk me. that she couldn't just visit and not bring any of that up but that is how she is.

 

Please remind me why none of it is real, bible, jesus, god. she just put things in my head again and I am trying to get it out of my head. I did not need this confusion at all.

 

I wish I told her to leave sooner, made some excuse up but somehow she got me talking and I wasn't feeling the strongest mentally.

[Mudhoney]

Hello jdog, I'm sorry that woman upset you. I want to reassure you that satan is not real!!! He is just as fake as santa claus. Your doubts about xtiananity are you coming to your senses, not satan doing anything to you. After I left my church I got a few emails from a woman telling me she's praying for me (to come back to church). If she really thought prayer worked she could have just prayed from home without telling me and I would have shown back up when the prayer was answered. Your visitor could have done the same thing. Deep down I think people know that they have to use manipulative tactics to drag people back to church. Don't feel stupid for letting her into your house and praying with her. I would have done the same thing, especially when you mentioned she was older. I was programmed to always respect my elders. Don't talk to that woman ever again unless you feel strong enough to tell her to lay off of the xtian garbage and have a normal conversation.

[bdp]

I wasn't really prepared and perhaps a little vulnerable.

 

That's when they come at you the hardest - vulnerable people always fall into it more easily and are more easily intimidated. I'd say don't encourage any sort of contact with this person until you feel strong enough to face them down - in a level headed but firm manner.

[Deva]

I hate confrontations and disappointing people. I am quite sensitive and I like to please.

 

This book helped me: "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by Manuel J. Smith. Please look it up on Amazon. It made me realize that not everyone is entitled to an honest answer or a full explanation. I used to think they did.

 

Being put on the spot, it is hard to respond in a way that you might see later that you "should" have. Don't beat yourself up over it, just learn from it and move on.

 

People like this lady don't realize the harm they are doing.

[Ro-bear]

Hello jdog, I'm sorry that woman upset you. I want to reassure you that satan is not real!!! He is just as fake as santa claus.

 

 

Who has been leaving that beer under the tree for the last twenty years?

[Ro-bear]

Man I am not good at this kind of confrontation. I know some of you would have told her to get lost and not even answered her questions. I just felt a little intimidated I suppose.

 

No, you are just a kind person. And I'm sure she thought what she did was the right thing to do. Any god worth worshipping would disdain worship. What kind of god would reward a servile asskisser? What kind of god would punish a sincere thoughtful skeptic? No god capable of creating all the wonders that we see could be that kind of god. If there is a god, its reclusive behavior makes it clear it wants nothing to do with us.

[Positivist]

Hi jdog.

 

I hear you! You were indeed in a difficult situation. Because we still know the fundy language, they can still speak into our lives, even though we disagree with their beliefs.

 

Please bear in mind that anything that makes you feel the way you do right now--intimidated, anxious, weird, depressed, confused, questioning--is not good for you and cannot be the truth.

 

I think what may be helpful (besides coming here, of course, which is great! ) is to write down what you do believe. When we are undermined in our beliefs (which you were this afternoon) we feel unstable, unsure, and confused. Knowing what you believe may help you encounter this kind of behaviour in the future. And yes, like another post said, these people swoop down on us in our very time of need. It's very opportunistic. Let me ask you this: Did she bring meals, since you've recently had surgery? No? Then she was just there to extract something for her god.

 

I also try to pre-contemplate what others (believers) may say/do, so that I have a ready answer. You're right--being caught unprepared and vulnerable sucks.

 

Be kind to yourself. You're on the right track!

 

Thanks for sharing the moment with us. I hope we've all been helpful!

[Antlerman]

I am aware that she pretty much came to my house to be nosy and not really want to know about me as such but about my spiritual self. I do see that. and that did irk me. that she couldn't just visit and not bring any of that up but that is how she is.

The whole time I was reading what you were saying I was thinking of what to advise you, then I read this. I was going to say you should respond to her with this sincere question, "Do you love me?" After she answers yes, which I would expect, then ask her, "If you could see I would probably never return to the church and pursue something else for myself that made me happier, would you still care about me?"

 

That is the question that would cut right through everything. If she said yes, then you could ask to help support you in finding truth for yourself that is better suited for you, since Christianity clearly isn't. If she said no....... well, show her the door. Feel free to slam it behind her.

[florduh]

What the Antlerman said.

[joyless]

I'm sure she felt "led" to come and harass you in the comfort of your own home. I have been guilty of that myself in the past to a much more minor extent. I have a fundy friend who can't keep her nose out of everybody's business. I got an email over the summer with her asking me about my divorce, how the kids are, finances and, as she put it "more importantly, how is your walk with the Lord". She followed it up with a phone call, making sure I was still praying and that I had broken up with a guy she told me to. If that isn't mind control I don't know what is. I responded by saying that God and I are an item for the summer... that I'm using him for his warm weather and that shut her up. Sometimes we can't be so quick on our feet. Your old church friend and mine are sincere in their beliefs, they are brainwashed too, and they really believe they are doing the right thing for us and for God. They don't realize the harm they do to us, though, and we can never really be honest because we end up feeling like confused little children when they whip out the usual catch phrases at us. I've been avoiding this one one woman who asked someone that needed some anti anxiety meds why she would take those when she had the word of God. I needed those once because of the word of god and those people like our friends. Hang in there.

[jdog]

Aww guys you are fantastic. thank you so much.

Yesterday's visit still got me wound up last night and then again this morning. I got angry and pissed off last night and realized how bamboozled I was. LOL

 

I was bamboozled. (I got that from the Santa clause coming to town movie)

 

I am really pissed off today about what she did. and as some of you said these people have no clue how harmful it is what they do.

 

You know i ended up in tears when she was here because she was badgering me...because she said I needed to cry out to god and humble myself and to be broken... and I told her that I have been there and done that more than once in my life and also after my surgery I was in a bit of a dark place and I did call out to god. and NOTHING! it really got to me when she insinuated that perhaps i was or had not been broken enough. omg. she has no clue where I have been in my life and how I have fallen on my knees crying out to god. I can't say how painful it has been. I know so many of you have been there and can identify with how insulting it is if someone says that you haven't been humble enough, broken enough or your faith hasn't been strong enough...etc...

it's like how dare anyone say that.

I have been very much alone at times and I can't force myself to believe. I told her that. I can't force belief, can't force faith. It's just not there.

 

she quoted scripture at me too and other things asked me about after death and dying and being alone. she really said some tough things. I just kept telling her I don't know. I don't worry about those things. I think I got overwhelmed. and then after she left it was like....whoa what just happened and then I got angry last night and then again this morning.

I am contemplating sending her an e-mail to say never to turn up on my doorstep again uninvited. (and of course an invite will never happen)

 

@positivist...no she didn't visit me the whole time recovering from surgery. never helped me. never brought a meal, didn't send a card, no phone call, nothing. she was fully aware of my surgery and she said in an e-mail that she would come visit and help but she never followed through with it. The church where she attends is very close to my neighborhood, she had every opportunity to visit me after a service or after bible study group.

 

And thank you for the suggestion to write down what I DO believe.

 

 

@Mudhoney and @bdp thank you both. No I won't talk with her ever again unless I feel strong enough. I don't think I can take that risk.

 

@ro-bear thank you....I know you are right. What kind of god? what kind of god sends someone to another person's house and harasses them about their walk with the lard, and causes the person to be in tears. I began to feel inadequate and that I was doing something wrong. that is not love. no.

 

@Antlerman and Florduh. thanks.

that is a pretty good question to ask someone and not sure how it would have flown with her. I am sure she would have given me 'jesus is the only way' 'one way' speech.

 

@joyless. thanks and definitely I am sure she felt 'led' and I am guessing she left my house feeling pretty great about herself and her 'work' she did for the lard. I know she will be talking about her visit to me at her next bible study group meeting.

so it seems the person you are dealing with is similar to mine. because she did the same thing, inquired about all the ins and outs of my life, children, husband, home...etc. and then came to the spiritual stuff.

and yes. "confused little child" exactly how I felt. ugh! today I am just a pissed off woman. LOL I am seeing the light....sister....seeing the light. LOL

 

oh and the 'word of god' is the other thing she said yesterday..about reading the word. and that's exactly what happened to me.....my anxiety actually got worse because of the bible and the 'word' LOL ended up having to take medication. it made me almost crazy.

 

I told my husband over the phone last night about what happened and I said ...that's it. i am not even inviting her in IF she ever turns up again. I will lie through my teeth and say I am off out somewhere and grab my keys or something. because I just can't let myself go through that again.

my husband was very understanding and said .. now you know....and then he joked and said next time she will bring her husband. (he's also a fundie)

 

I am going to send her an e-mail. I can't have this bothering me..wondering if she is going to turn up again. and I don't want her hassling my son either and his girlfriend. she doesn't know where they live...but she was asking me.

I can't have her bothering me anymore. I was doing fine.

[Margee]

jdog. I am so sorry you were thrown by this and it caused anxiety. It really does hurt us to have these discussions with our christian friends.

 

I am just curious when she prayed for you - what was actually said.? I just asked someone to continue to pray for me (to bring me back in the fold) I asked her if she would believe that god would hear her prayer and she said yes. I explained to her that I needed evidence of god and that if my faith were restored thru her prayers, I would accept this as evidence of god and believe again and this would be my proof.

 

I bet she's still on her knees..........I also know the excuse she will tell me if it isn't restored.....my choice to believe....blah, blah, blah.....

 

Stay and post with us awhile - You'll soon be back to your old self, hopefully!

[jdog]

Hi Marge, thanks

 

about the prayer...it seems that I was listening but not listening and can't recall much of it now...but of course 'heavenly father' is the opening line...and she said things like for god to let me know that I am still "one of His children" and that he is always there for me...and that we can't know everything in life but something about faith and mustard seed and all of that. ...I can't remember all the rest. but she went on for a while. LOL It just felt weird being prayed for again in person like that. us sitting there in my front room with her talking to 'god'

 

Anyway I sent her the following e-mail already because I just don't want her bothering me anymore.

 

"Dear ......

 

It was definitely a surprise that you visited me yesterday.

 

And I wish I was in the right frame of mind to tell you the following.

 

I think it's best that you don't turn up to my house uninvited again and if you did I am sorry but cannot let you into my home.

 

I know you believe you were doing the right thing. I understand that. but I cannot force myself to believe and have faith in the things that you believe and what I once believed. It's just not there anymore. I am not very good at confrontations and you got me at a vulnerable time but I found your visit upsetting and a little intruding and I do not owe you or anyone an explanation about my spiritual life. I believe in the reality of life here and now. I believe in one day at a time. I do not need to be pressured and have fear filled messages about being alone and after I die. I have no clue what happens after I die and I am not sure if the bible is a true and accurate portrayal of the after life anymore. I cannot say for sure if it is the word of god. I do not know anymore. Things started changing for me when I began to ask questions and started thinking for myself....the book of Genesis and the bible study is what really began to change my belief.

 

I am Agnostic now and have been for some time. and I am ok with that decision. I think it is an ok place for me to say that I don't know. I just don't know.

 

I do not want you bothering me about my spiritual life anymore or bothering any of my family. If the God that you believe in is as powerful as you think and believe him to be then he can get in touch with us directly.

 

I hope you can respect what I have said."

 

 

so that's what I sent. LOL.

[Positivist]

I got angry and pissed off last night and realized how bamboozled I was.

~~~~~~~

You know i ended up in tears when she was here because she was badgering me...because she said I needed to cry out to god and humble myself and to be broken...

~~~~~~~

it really got to me when she insinuated that perhaps i was or had not been broken enough.

~~~~~~~

...I can't force myself to believe. I told her that. I can't force belief, can't force faith. It's just not there.

~~~~~~~

she quoted scripture at me too and other things asked me about after death and dying and being alone. she really said some tough things. I just kept telling her I don't know.

I am horrified to read this, jdog! This is an abusive situation. She is not speaking truth into your life; she is rubbing salt in your wounds.

 

Good for you for taking a stand.... We stand with you!

[Positivist]

so that's what I sent.

[Cheers!]

 

Fantastic email! Well done!

 

You were spiritually abused by this woman but you have taken a stand against it in a very polite, honest and respectful way.

 

You go girl!

[Margee]

Hi Marge, thanks

 

abo

 

..... snipped

 

 

so that's what I sent. LOL.

 

 

jdog!! WOW! Good for you girl! That took a lot of guts! This is such a sign of starting to stand up for ourselves!! You have set a wonderful example !! Congratulations!!

[hereticzero]

I believe the only reason the lady showed up was to evangelize, or else where the hell's she been since 2008? Her motives were not pure nor innocent but to cause doubt and fear in your struggle to free yourself from religious doctrine. Sometimes the best way to get your point across is to tell someone to piss off. I know fundies who try their best to get a reaffirmation of beliefs out of me and they fail miserably. You need a thick hide to fight with a fundy.

[jdog]

@positivist...I never even thought of it being abuse. I was actually raised in an abusive home and I never really recognized it until later on in my life. I thought that it was normal.

 

so yeah now you point it out. It is abuse. Wow!

 

I feel really happy that i sent the woman the e-mail. And I can't believe I actually did it. My husband was really proud of me. He knows how I struggle with these things.

 

All I need now is to stand up to my family. LOL (they aren't religious, just other things)

 

@Margee...thanks...I know....I can't believe I did that. I think I am learning that I need to protect myself because of my health. Not only physical but mentally. I do have physical health issues and I also have GAD. General Anxiety Disorder and I have been working on myself....and though I had a little relapse with this woman's visit.. I soon came to my senses and realize that I have to take care of my mental health and well being. Since sending the e-mail I admit I have had a couple of twinges of guilt...but then the self protection part of me says..no I did exactly the right thing and not to doubt my decision.

 

@Hereticzero.

I see it now. I think my mind has been clouded at times. this lady and her husband were very kind of me...and seem genuinely loving towards me back in the day and I think I have felt a little guilty and didn't want to hurt their feelings. But NOW I see it all differently.

 

Like Positivist mentioned before. they never not once came to visit me when I was convalescing from a brutal surgery. I had knee replacements. pretty heavy duty surgery and I really needed help. they sent a couple of e-mails and said they were praying for me. that was it. Having surgery definitely showed me who are my friends and who aren't.

 

People say that ....you will find out who loves you and who your real friends are when you get sick or are going through a crisis. I think it is true.

Prayers don't help. Action does.

[Deva]

Great e-mail response! Well done!

[Positivist]

People say that ....you will find out who loves you and who your real friends are when you get sick or are going through a crisis. I think it is true.

Prayers don't help. Action does.

jdog, so true! It's easier to say "I'm praying for you" than it is to make a casserole or clean some gutters.

In that way, I'm glad I'm an atheist. The currency of atheist love and compassion is action, not empty platitudes.

[Kaiser01]

i still havent figured out what compels fundys to do this stuff even though i did it too.

 

probly has to do with some indirect identity supiriority complex.

[Positivist]

i still havent figured out what compels fundys to do this stuff even though i did it too.

 

probly has to do with some indirect identity supiriority complex.

For me, the reason I did stunts like that is because I was "hearing" messages from God, urgings of the Holy Spirit to do or say something. Funny thing, when I was a fundy this would drive me mental, wondering "Is this God telling me to do this?" "Should I talk to that stranger over there?" "If I pray for that person will they be healed?" The anxiety was overwhelming at times. Now, as an atheist, I realize that I am a fairly intuitive person, and all those times I was "getting messages" I was just tuning in to my intuition. Only now, there isn't a gun to my head to do what I think I'm being told. I am better at weighing the evidence, not just listening to the voices inside.

 

In hindsight, the whole thing seems pretty psychiatric!

[★ Citsonga ★]

If the God that you believe in is as powerful as you think and believe him to be then he can get in touch with us directly.

 

Exactly this. If their god existed, then he should be a big boy now and do his own bidding. If this god can't speak for himself, then he apparently doesn't exist (or he doesn't want anything to do with us, which is no better). The very fact that all the debate over god is based merely on *human* arguments is pretty good evidence that this god is a human invention.

[jdog]

i still havent figured out what compels fundys to do this stuff even though i did it too.

 

probly has to do with some indirect identity supiriority complex.

For me, the reason I did stunts like that is because I was "hearing" messages from God, urgings of the Holy Spirit to do or say something. Funny thing, when I was a fundy this would drive me mental, wondering "Is this God telling me to do this?" "Should I talk to that stranger over there?" "If I pray for that person will they be healed?" The anxiety was overwhelming at times. Now, as an atheist, I realize that I am a fairly intuitive person, and all those times I was "getting messages" I was just tuning in to my intuition. Only now, there isn't a gun to my head to do what I think I'm being told. I am better at weighing the evidence, not just listening to the voices inside.

 

In hindsight, the whole thing seems pretty psychiatric!

 

 

I use to get anxiety when I use to evangelize. Every time I went out I was prepared for a possible opportunity to witness. I even prayed before hand. I took my bible tracts with me. man I can't believe I did things like that. I too believed I was being guided by the 'Holy Spirit' and when random things happened where someone needed help and I ended up talking with a stranger..I believed that God brought that person in my path for me to witness to them.

I was a bit of a pain with my family, I didn't make anyone cry though. they were really glad when I left it all.

 

 

In hindsight, the whole thing seems pretty psychiatric!

 

Yeah pretty much. LOL

 

 

@Diva. thanks...and thanks for the book suggestion.

 

@kaiser...thanks. I don't know but it isn't right.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

JDog,

 

I feel you on this one. Prayer really weirds me out too at times. Over the years it has been easier to accept (yes, I let those around me pray, bear with me here). The reason it is easier to accept (for me) is that when one asks to pray for me, I see it as their personal expression/attempt to help however they think they can (besides actually just handing me a blank check or new kidney). Kind of picturing your intimidating boss naked during a board meeting approach. I make it clear though I am not comfortable with actual physical contact though, and it better be a private setting.

 

I think the only two people I cannot stand praying for me are my parents. BUT that is a whole nother ball of really screwed up wax. When those two start, I make it clear they have to desist before I physically want to hurt them.

 

I understand the guilt as well. I went through phases of that for awhile. But I felt guilt not because I didn't believe, but because I really felt that I had caused concern in their lives for me. I have a major complex about not wanting to rock the boat, so when people would call me up, it made me feel bad for them being concerned about me. Kind of stupid I know.

 

Over time, things will get easier. Maybe set more boundaries. Did you find out what motivated her to just look you up out of the blue? Do they have a bible study where maybe they set up a weekly goal to work towards (my father's church does that)? You might want to send a polite email to the pastor explaining that you aren't trying to engage a debate, but want to make it clear you are fine with where your life is and would appreciate not having anymore intrusive experiences like that.

 

Just some thoughts.