Coming Out In Support Of Gay Marriage On Facebook

[sarahinprogress]

I know i havent been around much lately, and thats because my life has been going pretty quietly. My father hasn't been making any outlandish accusations or trying to engage me in arguments. (my current, brief deconversion story is here: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/50760-my-father-is-becoming-a-pastor/ )But today, after i found out President Obama made a statement saying he was in support of Gay marriage, I posted this picture on facebook:

 

 

Promptly followed by a slew of likes from my similarly minded friends.

 

THEN, this comment:

 

 

If it was just a matter of preference and not a matter of restructuring how God established marriage. It's not enough for our sin to be flaunted in the face of a loving holy God. Now it's about imposing a lifestyle choice upon those of us who actually have a reverence of our Heavenly Father. Although we are to love all people, we are not to condone or affirm a lifestyle that is against what the Holy Bible teaches and Jesus referred to as sin. It's getting more and more acceptable to be in favor of letting people slip into eternity without the truth so that we aren't called homophobes. No sin is greater than another, according to Scripture. We are to love the sinner (all of us) and hate the sin. Homosexuality is no different than adultery or stealing. We all need Jesus! Love you Cuz!

 

I dont even know where to begin. Im so mad right now. This is why i dont post things on facebok, but gay marriage is close to my heart, and is a cause i am willing to fight for, stand up for and take shots for.

 

My current response (in progress) is this:

This would be a valid argument if the entire nation was a christian nation believing in the bible as divinely inspired, but it is not. I'm fact the nation was founded on freedom of religious choice: even if that means no religion. By denying marriage to those people willing to commit to each other for life, the government is oppressing THEM. You are not required to attend or approve of homosexual weddings, just as homosexuals are not required to attend or approve of heterosexuals getting married. As for the flaunting in the face of homosexuality, I think it's a far more accurate statement that heterosexual christians are flaunting their religion and legal marriage in the face of homosexuals. The gay community simply wants rights equal with those who are not gay. Just a few short decades ago it was illegal for interracial couples to get married, and black people were denied many of their rights with many arguments ALSO BASED ON SCRIPTURE.

 

 

 

thoughts and addendum's much appreciated.

I am considering just coming out to my family on facebook, getting it over with so that some of this drivel will stop. On the other hand i know that it will also increase some of the arguments and confrontations i will get.

[Peace]

I think that is a rawk awesome reply.

[BrotherJosh]

Sounds like a good response to me. Also, homosexuality is not a choice, unlike stealing or adultery. By the way, is this person in favor of outlawing cheating spouses? Sounds like he/she should be, since adultery is a sin in the Bible, often times punishable by death.

[freeasabird]

Sounds like a great response to me!

[sarahinprogress]

alright here is my full response:

 

This would be a valid argument if the entire nation was a christian nation believing in the bible as divinely inspired, but it is not. I'm fact the nation was founded on freedom of religious choice: even if that means no religion. By denying marriage to those people willing to commit to each other for life, the government is oppressing THEM. You are not required to attend or approve of homosexual weddings, just as homosexuals are not required to attend or approve of heterosexuals getting married. As for the flaunting in the face of homosexuality, I think it's a far more accurate statement that heterosexual Christians are flaunting their religion and ability to legally marry, support their loved ones, etc, in the face of homosexuals. The gay community simply wants rights equal with those who are not gay. Just a few short decades ago it was illegal for interracial couples to get married, and black people were denied many of their rights with many arguments ALSO BASED ON SCRIPTURE. Jesus says nothing about homosexuals, though the old testament, and the Apostle Paul do, but as Jesus was reviled for being friends with prostitutes and tax collectors, and other such unsavory people, i have a feeling he would be spending time with them and telling them to love others as they wish to be loved. Some other things the bible lists as abominations are: Eating shrimp or lobster , eating pork , mating two kinds of animals, planting two different crops in the same field and wearing fabrics of two different materials. This would mean Red Lobster, Pork chops, Mules, most farms, and pretty much anyone on the planet who wears clothes are committing abominations according to the bible. Why should our country ignore all these other instructions from the same bronze-aged book of the bible where homosexuality is defamed, but still enjoy eating our lobster dinners while wearing our poly-blend jackets and our cotton underpants? Homosexuality is VERY different from adultery and stealing. Adulterers hurt those they cheat on. Thieves hurt those they steal from. Same-sex couples only injure the sensitivities of those who choose to be offended by something different from them. They are born homosexual. Homosexuality is well documented in the animal kingdom. Some animals that engage in homosexual behaviors? Black swans, penguins , pigeons, dolphins, American Bison, Bonobo (and other great apes), Elephants, Giraffes, Monkeys, Lions, Sheep, Spotted hyena, Lizards, Dragonflies, Fruit Flies, and Bed Bugs. In conclusion: homosexuals are people, and people have rights in this country, and deserve to be SEEN as people and not just a deviant minority.

[Peace]

I might leave out about homosexuality in the animal kingdom and whether it's 'nature or nurture' argument because it opens you up to a rabbit trail that isn't worth it. It's sort of a distraction from your true point. But other than that it's fantastic!

[sarahinprogress]

I might leave out about homosexuality in the animal kingdom and whether it's 'nature or nurture' argument because it opens you up to a rabbit trail that isn't worth it. It's sort of a distraction from your true point. But other than that it's fantastic!

 

Thank you!

I dont think i could leave out the bit about homosexuality in animals, because i know a lot of christians who claim that nature is the perfect creation of god: animals can not sins since they have no souls, they do only what they are created to do.

 

If so, why do they get to engage in homosexuality?

[Peace]

I might leave out about homosexuality in the animal kingdom and whether it's 'nature or nurture' argument because it opens you up to a rabbit trail that isn't worth it. It's sort of a distraction from your true point. But other than that it's fantastic!

 

Thank you!

I dont think i could leave out the bit about homosexuality in animals, because i know a lot of christians who claim that nature is the perfect creation of god: animals can not sins since they have no souls, they do only what they are created to do.

 

If so, why do they get to engage in homosexuality?

If it's important to you and you've got an idea where s/he might be coming from then certainly leave it. I was just thinking the argument I've heard along the lines of 'animals don't have morals', 'some animals eat their young, should we be okay with that too?', etc. and how arguing that isn't the point.

 

I wish I were as articulate as you when I was engaging in a sensitive debate! I avoid it all together or turn, tuck tail and run!

[mcdaddy]

alright here is my full response:

 

This would be a valid argument if the entire nation was a christian nation believing in the bible as divinely inspired, but it is not. I'm fact the nation was founded on freedom of religious choice: even if that means no religion. By denying marriage to those people willing to commit to each other for life, the government is oppressing THEM. You are not required to attend or approve of homosexual weddings, just as homosexuals are not required to attend or approve of heterosexuals getting married. As for the flaunting in the face of homosexuality, I think it's a far more accurate statement that heterosexual Christians are flaunting their religion and ability to legally marry, support their loved ones, etc, in the face of homosexuals. The gay community simply wants rights equal with those who are not gay. Just a few short decades ago it was illegal for interracial couples to get married, and black people were denied many of their rights with many arguments ALSO BASED ON SCRIPTURE. Jesus says nothing about homosexuals, though the old testament, and the Apostle Paul do, but as Jesus was reviled for being friends with prostitutes and tax collectors, and other such unsavory people, i have a feeling he would be spending time with them and telling them to love others as they wish to be loved. Some other things the bible lists as abominations are: Eating shrimp or lobster , eating pork , mating two kinds of animals, planting two different crops in the same field and wearing fabrics of two different materials. This would mean Red Lobster, Pork chops, Mules, most farms, and pretty much anyone on the planet who wears clothes are committing abominations according to the bible. Why should our country ignore all these other instructions from the same bronze-aged book of the bible where homosexuality is defamed, but still enjoy eating our lobster dinners while wearing our poly-blend jackets and our cotton underpants? Homosexuality is VERY different from adultery and stealing. Adulterers hurt those they cheat on. Thieves hurt those they steal from. Same-sex couples only injure the sensitivities of those who choose to be offended by something different from them. They are born homosexual. Homosexuality is well documented in the animal kingdom. Some animals that engage in homosexual behaviors? Black swans, penguins , pigeons, dolphins, American Bison, Bonobo (and other great apes), Elephants, Giraffes, Monkeys, Lions, Sheep, Spotted hyena, Lizards, Dragonflies, Fruit Flies, and Bed Bugs. In conclusion: homosexuals are people, and people have rights in this country, and deserve to be SEEN as people and not just a deviant minority.

 

PWNED

[owen652]

maybe also ask why they don't actually believe what the bible says about homosexuality? it doesn't just say they shouldn't get married, it says they should be stoned to death, do they believe all gays should die? If not, why not? They obviously don't ACTUALLY believe the bible is an authority. (unless of course this person really does believe in the death penalty for gays, in which case you've got a whole other set of problems).

[sarahinprogress]

I might leave out about homosexuality in the animal kingdom and whether it's 'nature or nurture' argument because it opens you up to a rabbit trail that isn't worth it. It's sort of a distraction from your true point. But other than that it's fantastic!

 

Thank you!

I dont think i could leave out the bit about homosexuality in animals, because i know a lot of christians who claim that nature is the perfect creation of god: animals can not sins since they have no souls, they do only what they are created to do.

 

If so, why do they get to engage in homosexuality?

If it's important to you and you've got an idea where s/he might be coming from then certainly leave it. I was just thinking the argument I've heard along the lines of 'animals don't have morals', 'some animals eat their young, should we be okay with that too?', etc. and how arguing that isn't the point.

 

I wish I were as articulate as you when I was engaging in a sensitive debate! I avoid it all together or turn, tuck tail and run!

 

haha, im only this articulate when im writing. Talking is a whole 'nother arena for me. Its way harder to debate with someone when im speaking out loud.

Also, like i said, gay rights is an issue near to my heart. Ive done alot of thought and research on it (just did a paper for polisci supporting gay marriage) so i have a lot of information at hand.

Preparation really is the key to being articulate. If there is an issue you care about, no matter what it is, just research, research, reasearch!

[florduh]

That is an excellent response. I couldn't be so restrained.

 

I would just say, "This isn't a theocracy yet, so suck it."

[sarahinprogress]

maybe also ask why they don't actually believe what the bible says about homosexuality? it doesn't just say they shouldn't get married, it says they should be stoned to death, do they believe all gays should die? If not, why not? They obviously don't ACTUALLY believe the bible is an authority. (unless of course this person really does believe in the death penalty for gays, in which case you've got a whole other set of problems).

 

thats a really excellent point, but i think she is more of the new testament- y kinda christian, ignoring most of the OT.

 

I did have someone tell me once that the old testament doesnt count because most of it isnt mentioned again in the new testament, BUT homosexuality is, so that still counts.

[sarahinprogress]

That is an excellent response. I couldn't be so restrained.

 

I would just say, "This isn't a theocracy yet, so suck it."

 

Oh florduh, haha. I did my very best not to explode and tear her apart because she IS family, and most of my family doesnt know about my deconversion yet.

 

 

EDIT: what i mean to say is: she thought she was talking to a wayward fundie.

[sarahinprogress]

Sounds like a good response to me. Also, homosexuality is not a choice, unlike stealing or adultery. By the way, is this person in favor of outlawing cheating spouses? Sounds like he/she should be, since adultery is a sin in the Bible, often times punishable by death.

 

did i respond to this yet? Also excellent points!

[florduh]

I have neither patience nor couth. Comes with old age.

[owen652]

maybe also ask why they don't actually believe what the bible says about homosexuality? it doesn't just say they shouldn't get married, it says they should be stoned to death, do they believe all gays should die? If not, why not? They obviously don't ACTUALLY believe the bible is an authority. (unless of course this person really does believe in the death penalty for gays, in which case you've got a whole other set of problems).

 

thats a really excellent point, but i think she is more of the new testament- y kinda christian, ignoring most of the OT.

 

I did have someone tell me once that the old testament doesnt count because most of it isnt mentioned again in the new testament, BUT homosexuality is, so that still counts.

 

it's only mentioned in the NT cos it was mentioned in the OT. Jesus quoted the OT constantly; it was the BIble for first century Jews. I really can't understand christians who disregard the OT. I guess it's too hard for them to reconcile so they just go with the NT warm fuzzies.

[sarahinprogress]

maybe also ask why they don't actually believe what the bible says about homosexuality? it doesn't just say they shouldn't get married, it says they should be stoned to death, do they believe all gays should die? If not, why not? They obviously don't ACTUALLY believe the bible is an authority. (unless of course this person really does believe in the death penalty for gays, in which case you've got a whole other set of problems).

 

thats a really excellent point, but i think she is more of the new testament- y kinda christian, ignoring most of the OT.

 

I did have someone tell me once that the old testament doesnt count because most of it isnt mentioned again in the new testament, BUT homosexuality is, so that still counts.

 

it's only mentioned in the NT cos it was mentioned in the OT. Jesus quoted the OT constantly; it was the BIble for first century Jews. I really can't understand christians who disregard the OT. I guess it's too hard for them to reconcile so they just go with the NT warm fuzzies.

 

agreed!

[sarahinprogress]

AAAAaaaaand her rebuttal

But, the Christians can become that deviant minority if we don't stand for God's standards! There are principles in this life weather you stand for righteousness and holiness or condone the sin Jesus died to free us from. Jesus never condoned sin! Period! He loved people where they were at to show his love for them, but he said go and sin no more. He changed their lives and called them out of the sinful lifestyle they each were in. We are all born into a sinful nature but that doesn't mean God wants us to stay in those sins...otherwise, what was Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for? There are many ways to try to justify the sin we want to continue to practice, whatever lifestyle we are in. The arguments can go on and on until we find that place where Jesus' sacrifice was for us to find freedom in repentance, not freedom to sin. I don't want to come across harsh, but I do want to stand for the Truth of God. Last I heard, our country was founded on freedom of religion so that the British government could not impose laws against Christianity. Our Constitution has been trampled into the ground by all the twisting and taking out of context to fit with what people want to enforce. I pray God will reach your heart so that you can truly understand what an awesome and loving God we have access to through the sacrifice His Son gave! I do care deeply about your heart Sarah. Take care and seek Jesus! ♥

 

and:

John 8:1-11 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

 

And:

Jesus did not come into this world to condemn the world, but he came to rescue the world from the power of sin! ♥

:

 

 

and mine:

The treaty of Tripoly: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

this document was written, ratified, and approved by several founding fathers of this nation.

 

The government was not founded on christianity but on the freedom from governmental involvement. The bill of rights is full of this: rights to the civilian population and restrictions to the government.

 

Continuing to keep same-sex marriage illegal is DENYING rights to CITIZENS of this country. In example: there is a long term, committed lesbian couple, raising children together, having lived together for more than many married heterosexual couples are married. One of the partners gets sick with a life threatening disease needing hospitalization and intensive treatments. The other partner has a health insurance that would cover this but the sick one does not. In a heterosexual couple, the partner with insurance would be allowed to provide that insurance to their spouse. But because they are homosexual, they are denied that right, and so must suffer,and perhaps even die.

 

Where is the love, compassion, or justice in that?

 

In a heterosexual couple, even if they are NOT legally married, if they are together long enough it is considered "common-law" and they get some of the rights of marriage. In MANY state same-sex couples are denied this right as well.

 

this is not an issue of the sins defined by a bronze aged book written for a nomadic people living in the middle east and propagated across the world, or the proponents of the religions inspired by that book.

 

It is a question of the rights allowed to citizens of our country who want to be accepted as FULL CITIZENS and not half-rate. Citizens who love, live, work, pay taxes, vote.

[jackbauer]

Typical Christian ignorance. They act like giving people equal rights is forcing their lifestyle down their throat. Well maybe if these numbnut bible bots would live and let live, there'd be no need for homosexuals to have to fight for their rights, aka "flaunting their sin".

 

And I love the subtle threat of hell. Classy as always.

[sarahinprogress]

ooooh i am fuming right now. Just. Im so TIRED of having religious viewpoints shoved down my throat. MY WHOLE LIFE!!!

 

HULK SMASH!

[sarahinprogress]

Typical Christian ignorance. They act like giving people equal rights is forcing their lifestyle down their throat. Well maybe if these numbnut bible bots would live and let live, there'd be no need for homosexuals to have to fight for their rights, aka "flaunting their sin".

 

And I love the subtle threat of hell. Classy as always.

 

Oh thank you! i forgot i wanted to say that!

[jackbauer]

"Freedom from sin" add that to the list of Christianese I never want to hear again. What they really mean is "freedom to obey my stupid rules".

 

Freedom is slavery, war is piece, and ignorance is strength. See what happens when semantics are twisted?

[London]

One of my favorite things to add when they always try to ignore the OT but slam the Leviticus card is to mention Deuteronomy 21:18-21.

 

You could always add "When you have stoned your disobedient children to death, come and see me afterward and we will discuss the gays."

 

And the other thing I like to point out is that the "laws" actually refer to Levitican priests. That section has nothing to do with the common person.

 

Here are two links that explain the mistranslation of "homosexual" as a word and a concept.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibi.htm

 

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html

[sarahinprogress]

One of my favorite things to add when they always try to ignore the OT but slam the Leviticus card is to mention Deuteronomy 21:18-21.

 

You could always add "When you have stoned your disobedient children to death, come and see me afterward and we will discuss the gays."

 

And the other thing I like to point out is that the "laws" actually refer to Levitican priests. That section has nothing to do with the common person.

 

Here are two links that explain the mistranslation of "homosexual" as a word and a concept.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibi.htm

 

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html

 

OOO these are very interesting thank you!

I like to mention the bit where a rape victim has to marry her rapist if she's not already on layaway for someone else - or that a women who has already been bought by someone else has to be stoned WITH her rapist because she didn't cry out loud enough.