Legion Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 When something is held sacred, other things are seen as profane. If we move to protect the sacred, then we have become defenders engaged in war. In turn, war implies deception. Thus as would be defenders of the sacred, we are tainted by the use of deception. ------------------------------- I throw this out for your testing. And I also wanted to ask a question. ---------------------------------------------------- What might be some of the consequences for me, if I had reverence for dependent co-arising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Could you please re-state the question? I don't understand "Dependent co-arising." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 Could you please re-state the question? I don't understand "Dependent co-arising." Buddha's central doctrine on how all things continually change and condition each other in interconnections "as real as the spokes in a wheel." Sounds a lot like natural selection, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 A participant of dependent co-arising must rid himself of desire, including the desire to protect the sacred and deceive the profane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Could you please re-state the question? I don't understand "Dependent co-arising." I can try Oddbird, but I'm not at all certain that I have a good grasp of it. As I've been informed, it is both a concept and reality which arose in the East and the West which basically means... thus. That's it. Just... thus In the East, it seems to have been called dependent orgination, or in sanskrit, pratitya-samutpada. In the West it seems to be known as entailment, or implication, or responsibility, in Greek, it is called aition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 A participant of dependent co-arising must rid himself of desire, including the desire to protect the sacred and deceive the profane. I would think that I am already an intimate participant of dependent co-arising. Why must I rid myself of desire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thank you. At least now I have some Googlible material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 Could you please re-state the question? I don't understand "Dependent co-arising." I can try Oddbird, but I'm not at all certain that I have a good grasp of it. As I've been informed, it is both a concept and reality which arose in the East and the West which basically means... thus. That's it. Just... thus In the East, it seems to have been called dependent orgination, or in sanskrit, pratitya-samutpada. In the West it seems to be known as entailment, or implication, or responsibility, in Greek, it is called aition. aition = cause Entailment and implication both imply a necessary accompaniment or consequence, not a cause. I can see these as properties of a dependent co-arising, as I can see dependent co-arising as a becoming, rather than a "thus." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thank you. At least now I have some Googlible material. Okay, If you decide to look into it, would you share your thoughts on it with me? I would value your perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 A participant of dependent co-arising must rid himself of desire, including the desire to protect the sacred and deceive the profane. I would think that I am already an intimate participant of dependent co-arising. Why must I rid myself of desire? If you are happy with attachment, despite your understanding of the second noble truth, you may find contentment in your suffering. The third noble truth is that the way out of suffering is the elimination of attachment and desire. These are pillars of the teachings which you have been touching on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 29, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 What might be some of the consequences for me, if I had reverence for dependent co-arising? It's rather obvious, I think, that everything affects everything. Every action precipitates other actions. No man is an island. The Butterfly Effect. Some look at this, our reality, as some kind of mystical Buddhist revelation. To me, simpleton that I am, the interconnected state of everything is self evident. Everything is "mutually causative." Is that even in question anywhere? Am I missing something, or are you (and Buddhists) making it more complex than necessary? I really don't know the answer to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 When something is held sacred, other things are seen as profane. If we move to protect the sacred, then we have become defenders engaged in war. In turn, war implies deception. Thus as would be defenders of the sacred, we are tainted by the use of deception. ------------------------------- I throw this out for your testing. And I also wanted to ask a question. ---------------------------------------------------- What might be some of the consequences for me, if I had reverence for dependent co-arising? I am a frittata. I don't understand anything in this OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 I am a frittata. I don't believe I've ever tried a frittata. They look tasty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 29, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 Waiter! More frittatas over here. Yes, I know the plate is hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I have no idea what you people are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Florduh, it has come to my understanding, that they are making it more complicated than it is. Or so it seems. I didn't need to meditate facing a tree or a rock for a very long time, or at all, to come to know that the more I desire the more unhappy I'll make myself. Also, desire ain't the root of all suffering, just the easiest to avoid suffering if you have unrealistic desires. I'm not going to be in a relationship tomorrow with the man/woman of my dreams no matter how badly I desire to be, but I know people who feel like they wish the same thing, and drive themselves insane trying to attain just that. I'm glad I'm content with being single. As for dependant co-arising, big words for a simple process. Just saying. To be honest, when I first saw the thread, I read "rising co-dependant", I swear that's what it said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 So, what's the test, Legion? Have any of us passed? Where you just testing the waters to see if anyone was up for engaging in a serious discussion? I enjoy discussing different philosophies when all involved approach them as students. If someone presumes the teacher role she had better be able to represent. BTW: dependent co-arising is simply a crude Western translation of an Eastern (Buddhist) concept: pratitya-samutpada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 So, what's the test, Legion? Have any of us passed? What I meant was... I wrote those first few assertions in the OP for you to test to see if they agreed with your reason. I enjoy discussing different philosophies when all involved approach them as students. If someone presumes the teacher role she had better be able to represent. Certainly, I do too. But it seems I have a difficult time avoiding the temptation of becoming pious teacher when I try to explain why aition or pratitya-samutpada is an important thing to consider. I'd probably best be off simply trying to discuss it with those who already hold it important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 I suspect a few anti-spiritual members have ignored the fact that this OP was started in the "Spirituality" Subforum. I'm sure that I have been guilty of the same in the past. The "New Content" button makes it too tempting to chime in flippantly on any topic. I have offered my perspective on what you have presented. Does it hold any value to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Since the interconnections of everything run so deep, maybe we will treat others better if we had some realization of that. It ties in with karma and rebirth, but I don't know if I want to get into that end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 Since the interconnections of everything run so deep, maybe we will treat others better if we had some realization of that. It ties in with karma and rebirth, but I don't know if I want to get into that end of it. Deva, Do you believe in a literal, supernatural Karma and reincarnation? If so, I am interested in what convinced you of their validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Deva, Do you believe in a literal, supernatural Karma and reincarnation? Is so, I am interested in what convinced you of their validity. Yes. But I don't think karma or reincarnation is supernatural. Its part of nature to me. It has not been proven by science, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence and logic in it to me. It was the conclusion of many years of study and observation. It would be hard for me to condense it. Maybe another time. Why are you interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 30, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2012 Deva, Do you believe in a literal, supernatural Karma and reincarnation? Is so, I am interested in what convinced you of their validity. ....Why are you interested? I suppose that it's an intellectual curiosity at this point, trying understand someone else's perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 I suspect a few anti-spiritual members have ignored the fact that this OP was started in the "Spirituality" Subforum. I'm sure that I have been guilty of the same in the past. The "New Content" button makes it too tempting to chime in flippantly on any topic. Ah, I don't believe it's any big deal. They don't bother me. I have offered my perspective on what you have presented. Does it hold any value to you? Yes it does. Thank you. I would like to talk with you in greater depth about pratitya-samutpada in order to see how it is similar to, and different from, aition in your mind. But I don't want to be distracted with irrelevant comments from others during the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 30, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2012 Gee, I know I'm not welcome here, but I thought I asked a reasonable question. Thanks for the response, BD. The rest - never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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