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Breaking The "bad" News

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I think "pseudepigrapha" actually means false writing, or something like that. I'll look it up for you... one of my books has lengthy explanation of how scholars came to use that term. :)

 

It is supposedly taken to mean "writings written under a false name". Usually it only refers to the non-canonical gospels that were sometimes or close to getting canonical status, such as the Gospel of Peter... but the author of my book thinks it should apply to all the gospels, including the ones in the Bible. The book is Lost Christianities by Bart. D. Ehrman.

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Guest AgnosticMike

Welcome, Mike... I am looking through your site now. I think it's amusing you and your wife communicate through the "letters" section. ;)

 

On Liar, Lunatic, or Lord... I have taken to saying Liar, Lunatic, Lord, or Legend. ;) We can have our cutesy phrases too you know!

 

G'day Pandora

 

Where did you get the idea it was my wife? Are you referring to the general comments from readers? Maybe you're referring to Jill who is someone I met and has decided to contribute to the forum.

 

I like your little catch phrase Lord, .... Legend. So true. Very cute and a bit more complete.

 

I was reffered to this site from a Christian forum that I was finding hard to get into (by MQTA). The rules prohibit you from making comments until you've earned it. Glad I found this one and looking forward to some good discussion.

 

Love to know people's comments on the site. It's certainly not going to set the web alight becasue people wont be able to navigate to it without knowing its there. Still it's been good to get some feedback on my views.

 

Thanks again AgnosticMike

 

I think "pseudepigrapha" actually means false writing, or something like that. I'll look it up for you... one of my books has lengthy explanation of how scholars came to use that term. :)

 

It is supposedly taken to mean "writings written under a false name". Usually it only refers to the non-canonical gospels that were sometimes or close to getting canonical status, such as the Gospel of Peter... but the author of my book thinks it should apply to all the gospels, including the ones in the Bible. The book is Lost Christianities by Bart. D. Ehrman.

 

I think you are referring to the term psuedononymous. Rather than being anonymous another name is used to give the writing credibility. My Ancient Greek is not great but I'm sure that's what it means.

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Who is WE? Is she Jill? I am speaking of the lady that talked about her dad and women's intuition... but reading it again, it was presumptuous. I apologize. I read to hastily. It's late! :)

 

As for pseudoegripha, I believe I am correct. It is right here in my book, and my vague knowledge of latin roots tells me that pseudo-false and gripha-writings and scholars use this term with these roots in mind. The other term you use means false name, pseudo-flase and nonymous-name unknown. But yes, that term is used to refer to writings that have been given a false name, one that was meant to be in the tradition of certain apostle, but not actually written by that apostle. The terms are confusing, I agree. You may want to double check your usage, however.

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Guest AgnosticMike

I think "pseudepigrapha" actually means false writing, or something like that. I'll look it up for you... one of my books has lengthy explanation of how scholars came to use that term. :)

 

It is supposedly taken to mean "writings written under a false name". Usually it only refers to the non-canonical gospels that were sometimes or close to getting canonical status, such as the Gospel of Peter... but the author of my book thinks it should apply to all the gospels, including the ones in the Bible. The book is Lost Christianities by Bart. D. Ehrman.

 

Hmmm, my ancient Greek looks a bit flawed it seems. You are right it does mean false. Although I think the term is a bit judgemental. Thanks again, I will always stand and be corrected. I'll change the site immediately.

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Mike - excellent site and resource! Good work with it. I've bookmarked it and shall definitely make good use of it to help cement my own thoughts.

 

Yes, living in a "church community" does skew one's views. Living in a bubble doesn't let you get a proper perspective about what the "false religions" are really like. Only daring to pop that little bubble and take an honest look at other faiths will give one the proper perspective - as well as help one to realize that biblegodzilla isn't really out there.

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I think "pseudepigrapha" actually means false writing, or something like that. I'll look it up for you... one of my books has lengthy explanation of how scholars came to use that term. :)

 

It is supposedly taken to mean "writings written under a false name". Usually it only refers to the non-canonical gospels that were sometimes or close to getting canonical status, such as the Gospel of Peter... but the author of my book thinks it should apply to all the gospels, including the ones in the Bible. The book is Lost Christianities by Bart. D. Ehrman.

 

Hmmm, my ancient Greek looks a bit flawed it seems. You are right it does mean false. Although I think the term is a bit judgemental. Thanks again, I will always stand and be corrected. I'll change the site immediately.

 

 

Sorry I did that in the public forum. It was late and it didn't cross my mind to PM you. Anyway, it is a great site you have there. Maybe I'll write something up for a response...

 

Again, welcome. You will find many friends here. Stick around, we'd love to hear your opinions on the various topics we have going! :grin:

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Well, this little thread's obviously been sitting here awhile, but I've not noticed it. Shame on me.....lol.

 

Anyhow, I suppose the "breaking it to the family" is an continuous basis, though all memebers now know, even the ex-wife, I still get the questions from time to time. Most from which I never suspected I would.

 

Anyhow, I first broke it to my father, assuming that he would be the most difficult. One does not actually expect having a retired Baptist preacher as a father to go easy when you suddenly break out with your non belief and then leave the church as music minister.

 

He took it surprisingly well. He said he was disappointed, that he believed that was only experiencing doubts, and God would lay on my heart the correct path to take. After 5 years, he has learned otherwise, and doesn't really even bring up the issue. I would imagine this is a rarity, however, given a similar situation.

 

The remainder of my family, unfortunately, is another story. Their anger, misconceptions and accusations came flying in like the shit hitting the fan. My mother has settled down after a time, but not before screaming out, "I did not evolve from a baboon - not with their nasty little swollen butts hanging out!" - I wanted to laugh. How do you respond to that? I always saw my mother as a very intelligent woman, and still do, but at that moment . . .

 

My sisters still struggle. Then, oddly enough, my ex-wife was by accident. I had reached one of the rare moments when I become so angry I do not keep my words in check, and a "Goddamned" slipped out. She asked me to "not take the lord's name in vain", so I then decided to take the opportunity and tell her about my non-belief. A huge mistake in retrospect, but nevertheless, it's done.

 

I suppose many of us never quite know what to expect in telling our families, but from what I can read, in time, it works out for us in the end. It seems our own doubt sets seeds of doubt in our own families, and it becomes much the same effect of salvation that the christians claim from their words. What tangled webs we weave. :lmao:

 

OT

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Hello Mike,

 

I'm an agnostic as well. I believe that it's impossible to prove whether a god exists, one way or the other. The JudeoChristian god is not god, of that I am certain. But if there is one, I find it hard to believe that it would care whether or not we worship it or not. The need for love and adulation is a human need. Something divine would be above that.

 

He took it surprisingly well. He said he was disappointed, that he believed that was only experiencing doubts, and God would lay on my heart the correct path to take. After 5 years, he has learned otherwise, and doesn't really even bring up the issue. I would imagine this is a rarity, however, given a similar situation.

 

My parents have been acting the same way. I think they think I will change my mind and find another church or something. Once a few years go by and I don't go to church except with them on Christmas, I think they will realize that I have not reconverted. Still have to do the Christmas thing with them, it's either that or sit home by myself.

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I cannot actually remember telling my husband, which being as I only finally lost all vestiges of my 40 year faith 6 weeks ago shows how much of an upheaval it was. I think he knew something was up, because I told him I couldn't go to church and communion anymore the week before, but when I told him I'd lost it all, I have no idea. It just doesn't exist in my memory banks.

What I do remember is that he was deeply distressed and for a couple of weeks things were very difficult. He was very opposed to me telling our 13 year old son at first, but as he came to realise son would notice me not going to church, he agreed to let me tell him. (Our older son has learning difficulties and wouldn't care.) Son2 goes to church weekly and is very involved in church matters (as were we all.)

I just dropped it into one of my deep and meaningful talks that son2 initiates, by asking him if he'd noticed I'd not been to church for a few weeks.

To which he said he had, but it was none of his business. I just told him then I didn't find I could believe in god anymore, which he took on board for a couple of minutes, then said to me "You know, Mum, you've got to find your own path." I had been so worried about his reaction this was such a relief.

 

Telling my parents, which I did last weekend, was incredibly hard. I just waited for an opportunity when visiting and stated I wasn't going to church anymore because I didn't believe. As we live in a relatively small community, they would have found out I wasn't going to church sooner or later, so they had to know, also it's hard to talk to them for more than 2 minutes without god coming up in conversation. My mother was shocked and my father diasappointed. My mother used the Pascal wager card with a twist- OK, if I'm wrong I'd go to hell, but what if son2 follows me, because I'll influence him and he'll leave the church and then go to hell.

How am I'm going to feel when he's in hell?

Fortunately they've decided not to talk to me about it anymore, but just pray for me. Because I don't know if I'd keep my temper if they did.

Still got to deal with hubbie's family (all of whom are also christian) and many friends and church groups.

It's hard work, this telling people when your whole life revolved around church before...

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I never 'announced' it, per se. I told a couple of my friends that I'd given religion the boot - which I regret doing, because it wasn't long before everyone at school knew. I didn't tell my parents, however - my mother worked it out when I was 18, but my father still won't accept it. He's completely deluded. *shakes head in dismay*

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Who is WE? Is she Jill? I am speaking of the lady that talked about her dad and women's intuition... but reading it again, it was presumptuous. I apologize. I read to hastily. It's late! :)

 

As for pseudoegripha, I believe I am correct. It is right here in my book, and my vague knowledge of latin roots tells me that pseudo-false and gripha-writings and scholars use this term with these roots in mind. The other term you use means false name, pseudo-flase and nonymous-name unknown. But yes, that term is used to refer to writings that have been given a false name, one that was meant to be in the tradition of certain apostle, but not actually written by that apostle. The terms are confusing, I agree. You may want to double check your usage, however.

 

I may be wrong here, but I think the term pseudepigrapha (was that the term you were meaning to use?) is an actually book or set of writings by various prophets between the period of 200 B.C.E. and 200 C.E. that were declared to be false, by Jewish scholars. The term is usually used to this set of writings. They were ascribed to various ancient prophets or kings of Judea, but were written far later, most of them were apocalyptic in nature I believe. I had a friend in college who had to read it for one of his classes on hebrew writings.

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HOW did you tell people you no longer believed?

 

None of their business.... don't tell !

 

This is personal stuff. If I was a Mormon and lived in an intoxicated area such as Salt Lake city... I'd change city :HaHa: Who needs to face intolerance and aggravation. Leaving self-centered religions is no picnic and always a judgment call on those who stay.

 

Telling your hot-crossed bun chewing relatives that they are brainwashed 'wack-jobs' is fun if you're a dentist and like to see them scream at you :lmao::lmao:

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I anounced it on day while cleaning the bathroom. I dont know why :shrug: . But i went upstairs and said "ive made up my mind your gawd is just that its YOUR gawd, not mine! i want nothing to do with him!" Much to say my mom was shocked she went into the next room and cried (which i hate when she does but i was strong) I later had an actual talk with her and she asked does this mean im going to become a "sinful" person? I had to explain to her just because i dont believe in gawd it doesn't mean im going to go out and do drugs, drink like crazy, and comit murder. After that she felt better but she said i still had to go to church i said fine but only for a little while and it doesn't mean i believe anymore.

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I wish I'd run across this site about 4 months ago!

My parents were involved in the Methodist church when I was young. I went through the confirmation thing and all, but to me it was just words and I never really bought into it. After I was about 13 - 14 we just stopped going to church. Nothing was said, just stopped. I think my parents became agnostic/athiest at that time, though they just recently made if very clear.

 

I'm much older (42) and married to a YEC, BAC. My wife was a Baptist when we met and I, being blindly in lust and love, did the whole baptism, decleration of faith. I really wanted to believe.... :Hmm:

 

However, since that time (about 17 years ago). I "drifted" too and from trying to be "religious". I had many objections and was never comfortable with religion. Something just seemed "wrong".... My wife, on the other hand, went the other direction and is full force fundy everything is evil, end is near, gotta save all the souls kinda B.S.

 

Then, about 6 months ago I stumbled across the Flying Spaghetti Monster site. I laughed my arse off, and my eyes started to open. :scratch:

 

I attend a fundy charismatic church with my wife and kids here in Austin. One day, during the "alter call", this lady comes over, crying and the whole bit, and says "Mike, don't you want what they have??". Meaning the folks with the arms in the air and swaying and chanting. Inside the answer was instant. "NO!, you'll are nuts!". However, I politely dodged the question and gave vague answers. My wife is sitting next to me and said something about "God was telling to ask you the same thing..." :ugh:

 

 

At that point I made a decision. I would do my "due diligence" and let the facts speack for themselves. Lets just say the house of cards came tumbling down. I quit pretending to like church, or to pray. I told my wife in using "Rip the BandAid" method, she took it OK. Then I came home with some books from Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and few others. That's when poop hit the fan. She wouldn't speak to me for about a day. I actually thought we were headed for rapid divorce. I did almost tell her the two main reasons for my decision was looking at her beliefs now vs. when we met and the current church we attend. I think I did the right thing by erring to caution. :phew:

 

Things have calmed down now, but it's a very sore subject and I know I'm on everybody's prayer list :shrug:

 

I don't know how I would break the news differently, there isn't a good way.

Being "out" wow... I feel better now than I have in years! :woohoo:

 

The problem is all of our (read "her") friends are die hard fundy's. Blaahhh

 

Sorry to unload on you guys in my first post, but to be honest, I got no one to talk about this....

 

Thanks for reading...

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Do you still go to church with her? It is encouraging to hear that some marriages survive this kind of blow... maybe you should be encouraged by the fact that in the ones that do survive, the other partner usually follows suit. At least it did with mine. :) *sigh of relief* It was rough there for a year or so...

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Do you still go to church with her? It is encouraging to hear that some marriages survive this kind of blow... maybe you should be encouraged by the fact that in the ones that do survive, the other partner usually follows suit. At least it did with mine. :) *sigh of relief* It was rough there for a year or so...

 

Yes, I still go to church, but I no longer hide my feelings. Well, sometimes I do out of politeness. I consider myself an observer. It's pretty enteraining. Like being the only sober guy at a party!

 

I feel I need to show the same respect to their beliefs as I would like have them show me. I'm not going to shout B.S. every time I hear some obsurdity.

 

I no longer attend any home based bible studies or groups. I spend that time at home surfing the internet, reading or playing computer games. :grin:

 

I'm curious how it worked for you. This is an issue we have great difficulty talking about. We both shy from confrontation. The only marriage consolur she'll talk has to be "Christian". They spent the whole time telling our problems would be solved if I let "Jesus" back into my heart.... :Doh:

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I wish I'd run across this site about 4 months ago!

............

Sorry to unload on you guys in my first post, but to be honest, I got no one to talk about this....

 

Thanks for reading...

Welcome, Lothartx! And please, don't apologize for unloading. That IS why this site exists. MANY of us (myself included) have nowhere else to go to vent, explain and unwind about our lack of faith, and so we come here. So kick your shoes off, make yourself comfy and say whatever you need to help the process along.

 

<<<<hands lothartx the virtual mug of mead>>>> :beer:

 

Welcome!

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"Mike, don't you want what they have??". Meaning the folks with the arms in the air and swaying and chanting. Inside the answer was instant. "NO!, you'll are nuts!".

 

A classic :lmao::lmao:

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Thanks Grinch, Reboot and pandora!

 

I definetely need the beer.

 

Perhaps I'll make that quote my sig... :-)

after I fix the you'll to ya'll.... got myself in a lather typing, I guess...

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Guest Perry

hello lothartx

 

The tussle of logic versus phaith is demanding.

As you gave up on the easter bunny, tooth fairy,

other fairy tales and father xmas, so you gave up

on ghosts, myths and the grand self-deception cum

confidence trick called religion.

 

As we the people get better educated and informed,

we realise we are/were being duped. However, some

like it that way: they get a perverse sense of well-being

from the whole charade.

 

Where religion fails is not just in a fair and reasonable

appraisal, but in an examination of its history. That's

all religions, by the way. The Dark Ages were called that

because of religion, mainly Roman Catholicism.

 

Science advances that debunked the churches position

of the sun revolving around the earth, the earth being flat

and so on, are all conveniently forgotten by modern

churchers. And there was the Inquisition. All in the name

of gawd, of course.

 

Then one can surf through the biblical creation myth story.

If the Hebrew tribal deity did the things described in

Genesis, then it isn't really a deity of any significance at

all! It is a "construct," a "fabrication," deserving no

respect and nothing more.

 

This deity figure takes a stroll through a 'garden' that it

concocted. It makes an audible footfall. It prefers

evening for strolling, because it's cooler. (How

anthropomorphic!) After expressing some displeasure

with it's initial creation, it kills an/some animal (my

presumption) to make clothes (needles and thread from

where?) for its failed exercise in human

cloning/creation. After goofing in creating animals in the

belief that one of them would be a suitable 'mate' for

its first (male) creation effort, it fabricates a female

homo sapien sapien because genetic incompatibility

makes procreation impossible, otherwise. (Shouldn't it

have known that, in advance? What a thicko!) Then

there's a snake that can talk and - unlike a parrot that

mimics - seemingly reason! Did Noah miss those talking

serpents when he boarded the beasts into the ark?

 

Then there's the talking ass and the talking trees.

 

How do grown adults get suckered by these confabulations?

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Guest Lsettr

I got lucky. My husband had already begun to drift from the church while I tried my best to learn from the place. As I began my own bible study, I realized that they were not really teaching at all, but were trying to candy coat things and not question anything.

 

I am now a history and anthropology major who focuses on religion and folklore. I have learned much more about the christian faith than most christians I know. My husband and I have stepped away from the faith quietly. We are discreet because we live and have a business in our small southern town. I show other people courtesy and expect the same. So far all is well with everyone except my mother. She sees that I have stepped away and makes comments now and again about it.

She hopes to "train" my daughter in the ways of the lord. To her chagrin, I am teaching all of my children in the ways of reality and truth. Their morals and ethics are high and all of them are learning their values and their hearts...they answer to themselves and not to anything outside their own hearts/conscience first and foremost.

 

I believe your path is best for you. The quieter route has been best for me. No, it is not always easy, but it works for some of us. And I as well as my husband come here to remind ourselves that we are not alone.

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Welcome loth! (I can call you loth, right?)

 

Your situation is not tooo different from my own. I thought my wife was going to leave me shortly after breaking the good news that my mind had been cured of the mental virus that had plagued me since childhood. Unfortunately, she didn't take it as positive like I did.

 

It's been a few years since then and we're still together. She's just as religious as she was, but we've mostly reached a point of peace on the subject. She goes to church and prays as much as she wants, and brainwashes the kids to her hearts content, and I play no role in it. When asked by my kids, I simply don't answer. She's not ready for total openess, but the refusal to talk about it I think answers their questions regardless. I would prefer to be open about it to them, and think one day I will be able to.

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It's hard work, this telling people when your whole life revolved around church before...

 

You will get through it. If you really think about it, your personal spirituality is really your business. As much as everyone might want to tell you otherwise. Its not up to them - it's up to you and if you're heart is not in it then it would false anyway. You can only be who and what you are...

 

Trying to be something you're not is just too exhausting!

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Spamandham

You can call me loth... I'll answer to almost anything. :grin:

Your situation sounds exactly like mine. I'm forbidden from deluding my children with facts and real science (for now, they are only 11 and 9). But it has not gone unoticed by my kids. If they ask me a question when the wife is not around, I give them an honest answer. I do answer in a way that makes I hope makes them think. I make sure it will not put them at odds with "Mom" or in any way condeming.

 

 

Kinda looks like I hijacked this thread. Maybe I should a new one about dealing with spouses, kids.

:scratch:

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I grew up in a large, very religous family, but most of my brothers and sisters have come to the same conclusion, long before I did, so among us it's pretty much unspoken, anyway. My mother, I'm not so sure I will ever tell her, I'm am convinced that hearing the news from her youngest would kill her, for sure...

 

As for friends, I guess I kind of have a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. If anyone asks me about my relationship with Christ, or how I'm doing spiritually, or where I go to church these days, I will freely tell them that I have renounced Christianity; if they invite me to a church function, I will politely decline. I'm not really ready for the avalanche of witnessing that comes from telling a Christian that you're not a Christian anymore, and I've already had my fill of "but don't you care about your soul?" questions, so I only tell if it comes up in conversation.

 

My current roommate is on the fence about his own Christianity, but we don't really talk about it... I figured I'd found my way on my own, and he has no problem with my decision, I'm sure he'll discover his own way too.

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