Edie Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 There did seem to be some kindness there, but then they concluded by breaking off all contact. I hoped to retain friendships when I left my Church, but I also ended up with a choice of go back to Church or end the friendship. I chose to end my friendships. They may not be manipulative people, but they HAVE manipulated this situation to make it look like you are the one who has ended the friendship. They may be as much the victims as you are, but still, it does hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Nice to know you found a new "religion". Holyshit. Trust me on this one dude. "True Believers" and atheists JUST DONT MIX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Time to move along to a new social circle, I think. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I don't know, that last response looks more like an invitation to talk about things face to face, because the real emotions can't be read in e-mails. Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I don't know, that last response looks more like an invitation to talk about things face to face, because the real emotions can't be read in e-mails. Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong? Yes. BUT They still thInk he's in gods inner buddy circle, he just got lost walking through the woods or some shit. They're always going to be ready to pounce at the first instance he would ever show any weakness in his newfound "religion" *headdesk* So, while they may be "friends", he already said they'll never again be "family". So the bond will never in any way be the same. And he doesn't, and never will, truly accept his decision and just wave off the differences. He'll always, ALWAYS, be viewed as A THREAT. A threat to his and his family's souls. If he lets J get to close, J could siphon off some family members with his diabolical "logic" and demonic "reason" and his Luciferic "facts". I applaud the attempt but one side not playing with a full deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Wow jblue, that was a rockin' good email back. I thought you really laid out the honesty. And they clearly understood as well. I'm with T2M that I understood that they were done emailing and wanted to see the blues face to face to continue the friendship. I thought they explained the context of friendship/family/xianity quite well and I thought jblue explained that friendship/family can exists completely the same without xianity being part of the... wait for it... trinity , sorry, just had to use that term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Long emails like these are easily misunderstood or misinterpreted. Like B & D said, best to leave the emails and have a cuppa. Maybe there's friendships left, maybe not. With 2 families waiting at the porch with their lights on waiting for each other to arrive, it aint going to happen. Have a drink, meet face to face since they are not avoiding you folks per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 It's obvious they'll play nice and Play the caring parent role. That's all nice and good. But at the end of the day, they'll think that you (rightfully) think of them as deluded, uneducated, flighty and childish. And it's hard to be friends with someone who thinks of you that way. It would be so much easier if all xians would just come out as the deists or non-yahwist theists they really are. Because no one, even most fundies, buys into the Yahweh bullshit anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 these are the parts that piss me off "but you have chosen to disconnect from the family." “You know that when you made your decision to reject faith and Father, you were rejecting family as well” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 And this sirs is what I feel is the problem with religion. You're brainwashed to be around the in group the whole time and have trouble becoming friends with the non group. As Paul says, what business does light have with darkness and do not be unequally yoked. From my experience the Light must refer to the Angel of Light and non believers because obviously believers don't really have the "light" only self deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I don't know, that last response looks more like an invitation to talk about things face to face, because the real emotions can't be read in e-mails. Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong? Yes. BUT They still thInk he's in gods inner buddy circle, he just got lost walking through the woods or some shit. They're always going to be ready to pounce at the first instance he would ever show any weakness in his newfound "religion" *headdesk* So, while they may be "friends", he already said they'll never again be "family". So the bond will never in any way be the same. And he doesn't, and never will, truly accept his decision and just wave off the differences. He'll always, ALWAYS, be viewed as A THREAT. A threat to his and his family's souls. If he lets J get to close, J could siphon off some family members with his diabolical "logic" and demonic "reason" and his Luciferic "facts". I applaud the attempt but one side not playing with a full deck. Wow jblue, that was a rockin' good email back. I thought you really laid out the honesty. And they clearly understood as well. I'm with T2M that I understood that they were done emailing and wanted to see the blues face to face to continue the friendship. I thought they explained the context of friendship/family/xianity quite well and I thought jblue explained that friendship/family can exists completely the same without xianity being part of the... wait for it... trinity , sorry, just had to use that term. Long emails like these are easily misunderstood or misinterpreted. Like B & D said, best to leave the emails and have a cuppa. Maybe there's friendships left, maybe not. With 2 families waiting at the porch with their lights on waiting for each other to arrive, it aint going to happen. Have a drink, meet face to face since they are not avoiding you folks per se. these are the parts that piss me off "but you have chosen to disconnect from the family." “You know that when you made your decision to reject faith and Father, you were rejecting family as well” Man, I wish this were black and white, but it's definitely not. I want to believe that meeting face to face will work, but the comments that bugged me (and roadrunner) the most came just one week after I had run into them at a restaurant. I sat and ate and joked with them. I hugged them and told them I loved them in person. I was the exact same person they knew before (and so were they). It was obvious that I hadn't turned into an evil monster. I don't want to accept that McDaddy is right, but he very well might be. I am willing to be their friend and never require them to lose their beliefs in order to have a "real" relationship. They obviously don't believe that they can have a "real" relationship with anyone without Jesus in the middle of it. They will likely never be comfortable around me unless I repented and returned to the family. I get that. They think I'm going to hell and they love me. I don't know if they could ever get past it because the nature of their belief system is irrationality. Obviously, I am far from settled on my opinion. I really want to believe that theists/non-theists friendships can genuinely work. I just don't know at this point. I appreciate all the comments, opinions, and support from you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I really want to believe that theists/non-theists friendships can genuinely work. I just don't know at this point. They can, it just depends on the people. I lost most of my Christian friends when I deconverted, partly for reasons like this, or because they just never talked to me, and partly because I dont feel comfortable around a lot of my old Christian friends. I dont know how to relate to them anymore, and I dont want to feel like anyone's "project" because I am not saved. But some are very open, and capable of a good friendship. One of my best friends is a girl I went a year long Christian internship. She is still a Christian, and I talked to her through my whole deconversion. We still have a great time together and I think of her as a sister. All of the other girls I met from there and was very close to, I never talk to anymore. Its just too different and they dont know what to make of me. But this one girl in particular is special and awesome and incredibly down to earth. I also have a good Christian friend that I love going to a bar with and talking about life, and even light debating with. He is very intelligent and we have great conversations. I have 2 other guy friends that I hang out with sometimes. We often have some pretty intense debates, and at the end of the night one of the guys, who is really intelligent said "I really enjoy these conversations. You get me thinking and using my brain a lot, and you challenge me." So yeah, I still have some Christian friends. But they tend to be the more down to earth kinds of people. I would say I lost roughly 90% of my Christian friends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (Not including half Christians who dont really care about church that much, and just believe because its something to believe. Those people dont usually care if you are Christian or not.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I sincerely wish you the best of luck. It's not impossible, but the more fundy the friend, the smaller the chances it will work IMO. edit: BUT if you can get him to agree to leave religion completely out of the equation, it may work. Im sure they really are genuinely nice people. Its just that the doctrines and teachings that have been injected into their brains have solidified over, what, 50-60 years? and will be a major hurdle to jump for them. They definitely dont look at you the same, thats for sure. Thats what sucks about it the most. You're not just someone who arrived at a different conclusion. You're an accomplice to their arch-enemy. And if anyone pays you heed, they are in danger of being roasted on a spit for 1 google to the google power years. So its probably better to just not hang with you, even though their own savior would have. But of course he never really was in danger of hell, was he? how fucking convenient. Its tough, brother. You can only keep doing what youre doing, and hope they come around, or at least suppress their foolishness enough to "pretend" all is cool. But if they keep bringing religious stuff up, "Im praying for you to come back" etc., thats no way to have a real relationship if one party views the other as a pity case. Respect is needed on both fronts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 ,,,I'm sure they really are genuinely nice people. Its just that the doctrines and teachings that have been injected into their brains have solidified over, what, 50-60 years? and will be a major hurdle to jump for them... It's a funny thing. True fundies (as in uptight, religious, bible thumping) would not come to our former church. We were way too "free". I regularly drank alcohol, smoked cigars, and enjoyed events like "jazz night" with the leaders of the church and with this older couple. We all saw no harm in telling dirty jokes, going to rock concerts and movies, etc. The bottom line is that most of the people didn't act appreciably any different than "worldly" people in most aspects of their lives. However, they are convinced that the good lives they have are because of Jesus, not because of their hard work and good character. They are convinced that they are nothing without him, and if they are nothing without him, then so am I. You have to been convinced of that to be convinced that you need him. As you know, once you are convinced of that, you are trapped. They are captives of their own minds and that captivity doesn't give them the same freedom (to be real friends with non-theists) outside of the bounds of belief as it has inside the bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 ,,,I'm sure they really are genuinely nice people. Its just that the doctrines and teachings that have been injected into their brains have solidified over, what, 50-60 years? and will be a major hurdle to jump for them... It's a funny thing. True fundies (as in uptight, religious, bible thumping) would not come to our former church. We were way too "free". I regularly drank alcohol, smoked cigars, and enjoyed events like "jazz night" with the leaders of the church and with this older couple. We all saw no harm in telling dirty jokes, going to rock concerts and movies, etc. The bottom line is that most of the people didn't act appreciably any different than "worldly" people in most aspects of their lives. However, they are convinced that the good lives they have are because of Jesus, not because of their hard work and good character. They are convinced that they are nothing without him, and if they are nothing without him, then so am I. You have to been convinced of that to be convinced that you need him. As you know, once you are convinced of that, you are trapped. They are captives of their own minds and that captivity doesn't give them the same freedom (to be real friends with non-theists) outside of the bounds of belief as it has inside the bounds. Ok, I was under the impression y'all dd go to a pretty fundy church. That's why I gave these people little chance. It still seems a stretch, but maybe if they have a shred of normalcy in them and they're not über fundy it can work. But I'm just a realist by nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm mostly sad about this, but every so often it just pisses me off (like a few minutes ago when I wrote this poem) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Its sad to say, but the old adage "birds of a feather flock together" is really true. Lots of people like to associate with others that have the same basic philosophy or religion. When that common view is gone, there is an end to the relationship as it has been. Whether the relationship can survive at all is in question, and a few will still be there for you, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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