Responsibility Vs. Suffering

[Guest end3]

I believe many here are advocates for responsibility, over suffering and grace that I gather as one of the messages the Bible renders.

 

And I personally can see that I have a choice as what direction I choose when dealing with others. Whether I believe they are right or wrong in an assessment, I can choose to be responsible for my reaction(s)......which makes some sense.

 

So what is the relationship to suffering here? To suffer, I would have to, IMO, manage my feelings based on whether I assessed myself correct or not within a relationship?

 

For example, if I believe I am right, then responsibility can be suffering another's decision or ignorance?

[mcdaddy]

We suffer your decisions and ignorance almost every day on here End.

 

 

[mcdaddy]

I don't think it's your "responsibility" to do so though. You may even have a responsibility to do the opposite, to correct what you see is error.

 

But when you have no real facts or evidence to back up your assertions, then you lose that "responsibility".

[GardenerGal]

I think many here are advocates for responsibility and self-examination over prayer.

[florduh]

Sometimes it's better to be kind than right.

[Guest end3]

All good thoughts. But, and I have my limits certainly.......but isn't this a place where the line has been mostly drawn on suffering and grace?

 

Don't get me wrong, I see responsibility as a darn useful tool, yet I am on many occasions unable to take a level of responsibility that is not detrimental to a relationship.

 

Also, and this is a biggie.....is there a point where responsibility enables another of their moral/social responsibility?

[oddbird1963]

So, are you asking , "Why do I have to put up with this shit?"

 

In the context of any relationship , be it work, social or family related, you have to assess the pros versus the cons of taking measures to end the suffering that you are experiencing. It is a risk vs reward evaluation process that is often inexact and fraught with error due to unforseen reactions and consequences. In fact, engaging in the process can itself bring about some measure of suffering.

 

In the context of a job, you have to decide if you are ready to give up the job and its attendent pay and privileges if you are going to choose to not put up with people whose choices you do not like.

 

Suffering is a by product of choice. Not in all cases of suffering, of course. But our choices may lead to eventual happiness with episodes of suffering along the way. Or, we may coast along in relative bliss and suddenly, without warning, end up suffering due to some unintended consequences of a series of choices that, up to now, brought us relative bliss.

 

I think you are using responsibility in a broad way, so without more context I wouldn't know how to address your "biggie" question.

[bornagainathiest]

_{I believe many here are advocates for responsibility, over suffering and grace that I gather as one of the messages the Bible renders.}

 

_{And I personally can see that I have a choice as what direction I choose when dealing with others. Whether I believe they are right or wrong in an assessment, I can choose to be responsible for my reaction(s)......which makes some sense.}

 

_{So what is the relationship to suffering here? To suffer, I would have to, IMO, manage my feelings based on whether I assessed myself correct or not within a relationship?}

 

_{For example, if I believe I am right, then responsibility can be suffering another's decision or ignorance?}

 

_{While humans are responsible for some suffering, the ultimate responsibility for our condition lies at the door of the one who set up the conditions in the first place.}

 

_{As discussed here...}

 

_{http://www.ex-christ...st/page__st__80}

 

_{...#88 onwards.}

 

_{How about dealing with the BIG ISSUE first End, before talking about small potatoes like our personal responsibilities?}

 

_BAA.

[Spectrox]

I believe many here are advocates for responsibility, over suffering and grace that I gather as one of the messages the Bible renders.

 

And I personally can see that I have a choice as what direction I choose when dealing with others. Whether I believe they are right or wrong in an assessment, I can choose to be responsible for my reaction(s)......which makes some sense.

 

So what is the relationship to suffering here? To suffer, I would have to, IMO, manage my feelings based on whether I assessed myself correct or not within a relationship?

 

For example, if I believe I am right, then responsibility can be suffering another's decision or ignorance?

 

Why are you still playing this strange psychological game with yourself? Give it up. It's nonsense.

 

Responsibility doesn't have to be about blame or guilt. The clue is in the word. Response Ability. The ability to respond. The Bible is so screwed up and out of touch with reality that it hinders any genuine response to every situation I can think of.

[Guest Valk0010]

[Guest end3]

Responsibility doesn't have to be about blame or guilt. The clue is in the word. Response Ability. The ability to respond. The Bible is so screwed up and out of touch with reality that it hinders any genuine response to every situation I can think of.

 

"Choice", IMO describes at least a dichotomy. I am at a loss for other choices you are describing?

[Guest end3]

 

We all know Picard is just make believe Valk

[Guest Valk0010]

 

We all know Picard is just make believe Valk

 

I was just making the point that, it seems like your question is based off a wrong premise.

[roadrunner]

Responsibility doesn't have to be about blame or guilt. The clue is in the word. Response Ability. The ability to respond. The Bible is so screwed up and out of touch with reality that it hinders any genuine response to every situation I can think of.

 

"Choice", IMO describes at least a dichotomy. I am at a loss for other choices you are describing?

 

though this is a very confusing topic and it has quickly spun to a level of complexity that I am not ready to sift though at the moment but I will at least try to grasp this....

 

IMO choices are very complex because they have residual effects. To the christian, you are either in gods will or out of gods will and this DOES split reality into Black and White. In the real world we acknowledge the complexity of choices and redefine right and wrong based on the situation in which it is applied. The bible is very specific about what is GOOD and what is BAD. RIGHT WRONG. HEAVEN or HELL/SEPARATION FROM GOD (depending on how much you've decided to bend). The bible does condone moral absolutes and absolute truth which (to me) fall in the category of dichotomy.

[raoul]

 

We all know Picard is just make believe Valk

 

I was just making the point that, it seems like your question is based off a wrong premise.

they're VERY good at creating false premises, aka strawmen, and then arguing from same.

[raoul]

I believe many here are advocates for responsibility, over suffering and grace that I gather as one of the messages the Bible renders.

 

And I personally can see that I have a choice as what direction I choose when dealing with others. Whether I believe they are right or wrong in an assessment, I can choose to be responsible for my reaction(s)......which makes some sense.

 

So what is the relationship to suffering here? To suffer, I would have to, IMO, manage my feelings based on whether I assessed myself correct or not within a relationship?

 

For example, if I believe I am right, then responsibility can be suffering another's decision or ignorance?

I haven't the SLIGHTEST idea of what the fuck you are talking about. However, since you're a bible thumper, abeit a very subtle one, I'll quote a verse from Jesus himself. He said 'shit happens, get used to it'

 

That's a very loose translation of mine based on 21st century rational thought. It was from where he spoke about the tower falling and killing some people. Understood? No big philosophical garbage - just reality 101. Shit happens, deal with it.

[Guest end3]

I believe many here are advocates for responsibility, over suffering and grace that I gather as one of the messages the Bible renders.

 

And I personally can see that I have a choice as what direction I choose when dealing with others. Whether I believe they are right or wrong in an assessment, I can choose to be responsible for my reaction(s)......which makes some sense.

 

So what is the relationship to suffering here? To suffer, I would have to, IMO, manage my feelings based on whether I assessed myself correct or not within a relationship?

 

For example, if I believe I am right, then responsibility can be suffering another's decision or ignorance?

I haven't the SLIGHTEST idea of what the fuck you are talking about. However, since you're a bible thumper, abeit a very subtle one, I'll quote a verse from Jesus himself. He said 'shit happens, get used to it'

 

That's a very loose translation of mine based on 21st century rational thought. It was from where he spoke about the tower falling and killing some people. Understood? No big philosophical garbage - just reality 101. Shit happens, deal with it.

 

Well, here's the deal R. A person can go through life destroying life and those perceived qualities or one can move through supporting life. I have no problem "dealing with shit", it's that I need help exacting my method to facilitate the latter. A falling tower is one thing, an intentional destructive (human) tower is another. I belive in Christian terms being "reborn" is the term.

 

Edit: For example R. In my mind I pretty much think you're an ass by you repeated attacks on me, but, BUT, I have chosen (see above), to be nice so that it will facilitate good stuff, i.e. life in your reality. See, it's pretty easy. If I choose to follow my "worldly spirit", then I would be happy that you were unhappy for the rest of your hatefilled days. Just an illustration that you might catch on quicker....

[raoul]

I believe many here are advocates for responsibility, over suffering and grace that I gather as one of the messages the Bible renders.

 

And I personally can see that I have a choice as what direction I choose when dealing with others. Whether I believe they are right or wrong in an assessment, I can choose to be responsible for my reaction(s)......which makes some sense.

 

So what is the relationship to suffering here? To suffer, I would have to, IMO, manage my feelings based on whether I assessed myself correct or not within a relationship?

 

For example, if I believe I am right, then responsibility can be suffering another's decision or ignorance?

I haven't the SLIGHTEST idea of what the fuck you are talking about. However, since you're a bible thumper, abeit a very subtle one, I'll quote a verse from Jesus himself. He said 'shit happens, get used to it'

 

That's a very loose translation of mine based on 21st century rational thought. It was from where he spoke about the tower falling and killing some people. Understood? No big philosophical garbage - just reality 101. Shit happens, deal with it.

 

Well, here's the deal R. A person can go through life destroying life and those perceived qualities or one can move through supporting life. I have no problem "dealing with shit", it's that I need help exacting my method to facilitate the latter. A falling tower is one thing, an intentional destructive (human) tower is another. I belive in Christian terms being "reborn" is the term.

 

Edit: For example R. In my mind I pretty much think you're an ass by you repeated attacks on me, but, BUT, I have chosen (see above), to be nice so that it will facilitate good stuff, i.e. life in your reality. See, it's pretty easy. If I choose to follow my "worldly spirit", then I would be happy that you were unhappy for the rest of your hatefilled days. Just an illustration that you might catch on quicker....

What is it about you freaking Jaysus freaks with the 'hatefilled' accusations? Nothing I responded with had one fucking iota of 'hate'. Lots of sarcasm? Of course. But 'hate' per se, nope.But at least you didn't say I was 'bitter' like so many of your kind love to use when confronted with a challenge they can't respond to. You also claim I have attacked you repeatedly? I believe I may have responded to just a couple of idiotic things you posted but nothing like what I am REALLY capable of doing. You've gotten off easy bud so get on your knees and thank you know who. LOL

 

but yes I would definitely agree that I am an 'ass' since I actually wasted time even responding to you. I notice how you just tapdanced around my rather brilliant quote of Jesus and just preached, once more. Always nice chatting with you.. ROFL

[Guest end3]

I believe the hatefilled thing from Christians comes from the state of which many are pursing this dichotomy. For example, lacking tolerance as a means of defense or choice in dealing the a relationship, Christianity in this case, is very common here. "I'm not open to it", "It hurt me" etc are evidence of not wanting to make a choice on behalf of the Christian visitor to facilitate THEIR beliefs/life. No biggie.

 

Tone here R.....profanity comes across as anger and hate IMO.....

 

Give the the verses you were describing because in your brilliant paraphrasing, I have no clue what story you are interpreting.

 

And Lord, please help R not unload his deadly torrent of personality on me in my meekness. As always, thanks Lord,.

[Spectrox]

Responsibility doesn't have to be about blame or guilt. The clue is in the word. Response Ability. The ability to respond. The Bible is so screwed up and out of touch with reality that it hinders any genuine response to every situation I can think of.

 

"Choice", IMO describes at least a dichotomy. I am at a loss for other choices you are describing?

 

From your signature, you still seem to be Klinging on to what the Bible spouts. Are you a Klingon?

 

The only definition of morality that makes any sense to me is behaving in such a way as to maximise the benefit to myself and others and minimising the harm to myself and others. The Bible fails spectacularly in this regard what with God's support of genocide, slavery, sexism, homophobia, eternal hellfire and damnation. Why complicate things by referring to the Bible?

 

Maximising the benefit to myself and others occasionally means challenging immorality, the Bible being particularly obscene in this regard.

 

All you can do in life is your best. You can't do any more. Then you won't judge yourself so much.

 

Chuck out the Bible. It's not the Good Book. It's well and truly passed it's sell-by-date.

[raoul]

I believe the hatefilled thing from Christians comes from the state of which many are pursing this dichotomy. For example, lacking tolerance as a means of defense or choice in dealing the a relationship, Christianity in this case, is very common here. "I'm not open to it", "It hurt me" etc are evidence of not wanting to make a choice on behalf of the Christian visitor to facilitate THEIR beliefs/life. No biggie.

 

Tone here R.....profanity comes across as anger and hate IMO.....

 

Give the the verses you were describing because in your brilliant paraphrasing, I have no clue what story you are interpreting.

 

And Lord, please help R not unload his deadly torrent of personality on me in my meekness. As always, thanks Lord,.

Regarding your first strawman about people over here lacking tolerance - once more the xtian blindness comes out. If there were ANY group of people who are INCREDIBLY tolerant, it's this bunch. They welcome any and all views as long as one comes forth in an intellectually HONEST way with the views. Unfortunately that probably leaves people like YOU out.

 

Regarding profanity = anger/hate. You'd better take that up with your lord because he was pretty pissed off at times and cursed about it. When he called religious thumpers like you a brood of vipers or white washed tombs, the Greek translation doesn't really do the Aramaic he used justice. He was basically calling them a bunch of bastards and worse. Maybe you should study the bible in the original tongue as I've attempted to do. Just a suggestion.

 

And you have the gall to ask me to give you the exact verses? Obviously you haven't memorized key parts of the NT as I have done and I am not about to start putting out bible lessons. Obviously you are intellectually lazy as well as intellectually dishonest. And one last note - it isn't a sign of cowardness to just stop replying. You can do that you know and leave yourself off the hook over here. But if you continue to respond with such empty headed comments, I will be forced to take you a bit more seriously and then deal with you accordingly.

[Guest end3]

Regarding your first strawman about people over here lacking tolerance - once more the xtian blindness comes out. If there were ANY group of people who are INCREDIBLY tolerant, it's this bunch. They welcome any and all views as long as one comes forth in an intellectually HONEST way with the views. Unfortunately that probably leaves people like YOU out.

 

You're not too bright huh R. "You Christians qualify your tolerance, yet we don't qualify ours other than intellectually honest per our interpretation". This actually makes me laugh R.

 

 

Regarding profanity = anger/hate. You'd better take that up with your lord because he was pretty pissed off at times and cursed about it. When he called religious thumpers like you a brood of vipers or white washed tombs, the Greek translation doesn't really do the Aramaic he used justice. He was basically calling them a bunch of bastards and worse. Maybe you should study the bible in the original tongue as I've attempted to do. Just a suggestion.

 

Yes, it's in the Bible, and society as well. So cuss if you want, you will be perceived as rude or angry or whatever....your choice.

 

And you have the gall to ask me to give you the exact verses? Obviously you haven't memorized key parts of the NT as I have done and I am not about to start putting out bible lessons.

 

Sorry, I was just having trouble with your honest intellectual paraphrasing. Perhaps had you posted in Aramaic....

[raoul]

Regarding your first strawman about people over here lacking tolerance - once more the xtian blindness comes out. If there were ANY group of people who are INCREDIBLY tolerant, it's this bunch. They welcome any and all views as long as one comes forth in an intellectually HONEST way with the views. Unfortunately that probably leaves people like YOU out.

 

You're not too bright huh R. "You Christians qualify your tolerance, yet we don't qualify ours other than intellectually honest per our interpretation". This actually makes me laugh R.

 

 

Regarding profanity = anger/hate. You'd better take that up with your lord because he was pretty pissed off at times and cursed about it. When he called religious thumpers like you a brood of vipers or white washed tombs, the Greek translation doesn't really do the Aramaic he used justice. He was basically calling them a bunch of bastards and worse. Maybe you should study the bible in the original tongue as I've attempted to do. Just a suggestion.

 

Yes, it's in the Bible, and society as well. So cuss if you want, you will be perceived as rude or angry or whatever....your choice.

 

And you have the gall to ask me to give you the exact verses? Obviously you haven't memorized key parts of the NT as I have done and I am not about to start putting out bible lessons.

 

Sorry, I was just having trouble with your honest intellectual paraphrasing. Perhaps had you posted in Aramaic....

Hallelujah! Because that was a concession right? You agree it's in the bible. Regarding what people perceive me as - obviously you don't follow your own lord who said we ought not to care what people think. Oh dear, does that mean I gotta give you the bible verse for that? LOL

 

Now, unless you have something to say I may be forced to shake the dust from my ass and move on. LOL

[Guest end3]

Hallelujah! Because that was a concession right? You agree it's in the bible. Regarding what people perceive me as - obviously you don't follow your own lord who said we ought not to care what people think. Oh dear, does that mean I gotta give you the bible verse for that? LOL

 

Now, unless you have something to say I may be forced to shake the dust from my ass and move on. LOL

 

 

 

No R, the point of the Bible, that WE are the the ones that can't achieve the permanent agape love. Yes, that's why we follow Christ. Yes, the worldly me perceives you as an ass. The Spiritual me sees you as a struggling soul.

 

And, yes, this exchange has been fun, but somewhat fruitless. Blessings sir. And if that's your old lady in your avatar, tell her hey for me....and that I am praying for her..

[raoul]

Hallelujah! Because that was a concession right? You agree it's in the bible. Regarding what people perceive me as - obviously you don't follow your own lord who said we ought not to care what people think. Oh dear, does that mean I gotta give you the bible verse for that? LOL

 

Now, unless you have something to say I may be forced to shake the dust from my ass and move on. LOL

 

 

 

No R, the point of the Bible, that WE are the the ones that can't achieve the permanent agape love. Yes, that's why we follow Christ. Yes, the worldly me perceives you as an ass. The Spiritual me sees you as a struggling soul.

 

And, yes, this exchange has been fun, but somewhat fruitless. Blessings sir. And if that's your old lady in your avatar, tell her hey for me....and that I am praying for her..

Okay jerkoff, you went and did it - you insulted the only person I've ever trusted more than my own life - my wife. She isn't my old lady. She's my life partner but then again you probably did that just to get my goat. Well, you did so here goes - you know how your book of fairy tales has countless bible verses where a prophet issues a curse against Israel and/or some of its people? Probably not since you're ignorant about the bible as evidenced by your comments before. But anyway, here's MY curse to you - I'm gonna keep on the lookout for ANYTHING you post and whatever it is, if I find the time, I'm gonna excoriate it to pieces just to have a little fun with an asshole like you.

 

Regarding my being a struggling soul - yeah I WAS one when I was a Christian. But once I realized it was nothing more than a bunch of shit all I said to myself was 'I finally get it' and moved out of it. No struggle or nothing. The only struggles I had was when I tried being one and had to put up with incredible shit from assholes like YOU.

 

So don't say you haven't been warned and my wife, nor I, need your pathetic prayers to the great pumpkin in the sky. We both answer our own prayers when required..

 

graciously yours,

raoul