"the Secret," "think And Grow Rich," And Other Mind-Based Claims

[Galien]

Positive thinking is powerful, but not in a crazy magic way.  You just need to use positive thoughts to give you the drive and confidence to reach your goals.  

 

Which is fair enough, but do people have to harp on about it 24/7, just about rip your throat out every time you make a comment they consider "negative" and shove this shit down your throat like some kind of religion? I have this mental picture of people hiding under bushes should the negative get them.

 

Life has positive and negative aspects. We need to learn how to deal with both of those things. You cannot think or speak shit into being. But you can get off your ass and facilitiate it.

[Sunny49]

Well, positive, yet REALISTIC view is healthy, but what they are trying to sell is positive view yet COMPLETELY unrealistic and magical. I loled so hard when I read in that "Secret" book that in order to get a husband you have to wear a nice night gawn, buy a bed for two and pretend that your husband is sleeping next to you (firmly believe that he is already there). WTF?! This is how you´re going to find a potential husband?!

[stryper]

The other thing to keep in mind is that much like christianity, those who profess the most to positive thinking have a veeneer of it covering over a unchanged core.   This is why it doesn't work as often as it does. 

 

People assume, like with religion, that you must be smiling all the time and super happy, and all tragedies are just god hand and you shouldn't be upset about them. 

 

Other who take it deeper understand and allow for those negative feeling.  But they don't hold on to them like they did before.  

 

 

Separate point.

 

the MLM crowd has made billions off this kind of crap.   Often the goals and ideals presented in the books are not what you really want.   However, sometime you have to do something you grow to hate to see that.  Not everyone wants the million dollar house, with a plane, and luxury cars.   Most people just want to leave their job and spend more time with the family. Money helps but it is not a force that motivates people long term.

[Guest Hoseki]

I do not support the "Secret" in itself because it seems way too preachy and similarly demanding. I don't like things that tell me that if I don't do it perfectly their way, then I am wrong and deserve bad things. However, while I don't like their teachings as a whole, it was one of the first books that told me that I was responsible for my own life and not some gawd driven destiny. Eventually, I got curious and moved on to more realistic and business concepts about hard work and achieving dreams. I have a very vivid imagination, so I imagine it and then go work my ass of until I get it! I think reaching for goals that fit your life and dreams works, not by mimicking some book's "get 500,000 dollars just by thinking it." There's a key element of work and time that needs to be considered. Just like praying, if you sit around on your knees asking for a meal, you're going to starve to death while on your knees. 

Also, one thing to be careful of is asking other's opinions of every single thing you read. I began falling into that trap when I first started my deconversion, then realized I was stifling myself. You need to learn how to trust yourself in discerning what's right or wrong for you. It's ok to ask sometimes, but if you're doing it as a long-term crutch or to make sure you're falling in line with what everyone else thinks, you can end up right back where you started, depending on others for you answers. I don't think there is anything wrong with just reading a book about a concept. I have read everything from Hinduism to Satanism. While you're reading, don't be eager to adopt a new spirituality at all. Just pick what works for you in one book, apply that and move on to the next thing. Try not to get stuck. 

[Joshpantera]

I have read everything from Hinduism to Satanism.

 

Hinduism IS Satanism, don't you know?

 

 

But seriously, the secret to positive thinking can work wonders. These ass clowns have tried to exploit it. But that's to be expected because anything that can be exploited will be exploited.

[Voice]

You did pretty much answer it in your opening paragraph.  You've exposed the error in taking the idea to its logical conclusion.  I didn't remember this idea in Think and Grow Rich, its been over 20 years ago when I read it.   Those tips are very useful if your goal in life is to think and grow rich.  It didn't work for me, but it was a good read.  It's well written.

[creative]

Best-Seller "The Secret" and "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill.... Are these just another form of deception that promises something we all want and uses wishful thinking to keep us hooked??

I've been reading "Think and Grow Rich" and was rather enjoying it, as I simply thought it was a good way to program myself in such a way that would put me in more situations and opportunities to make money. I thought it was nothing more than something akin to learning about body language at a job interview and how it can help greatly.

Well, in chapter 4, the author wrote something along the lines of, "This method never fails. If a person tries it and doesn't succeed, then it was the person, not the system, that failed." That immediately made me think of how churches will tell someone that if they have any doubts or conitued struggles that it just means they haven't prayed hard enough and that they are the problem, not Jesus.

 

So, to the basis of my question which kind of feels like I answered above... 

 

What are your thoughts on "positive thinking," "law of attraction," "energy released into the ether," "getting what you demand of the universe," etc. etc.. Is it as simple as positive thinking = prayer and the universe = god.. or has anyone experienced anything different?

 

IMO just a other scam to sell people stuff they don't need.

 

Does positive thinking work? Sure but it has nothing to do with the secret, its just pure psychology.

 

4 words explain it all (to be taken literally): Reality is a illusion.

You have people who are afraid of spiders and you have people who love them and keep them as pets.

Both people in the example above perceive reality different.

 

Person 1 wins 20$ in the lottery: OMG i won yaaaay im soo lucky.

Person 2 wins 20$ in the lottery: Dam was about time after spending over 100$ on lottery tickets this year.

 

[RavenNightSong]

While there are alot of scams and cons out there, I will always be grateful to The Secret and Abraham-Hicks for giving me to courage to acknowledge my nagging doubts about Christianity. It gave my mind a chance to acknowledge what I was feeling inside, and that is the basis of the Law of Attraction - recognizing and listening to what you feel.

 

Chrisitianity has a way of desensitizing you from what you are truly feeling. When I started to feel, I began my journey. For that I am very grateful. Because of The Secret and the Law of Attraction helping me to learn to feel, I gained the courage to leave Christianity, to begin to discover who I truly am and how to walk out this path.

 

Yes, there are alot of people out there who use it to scam people but then there are people, like me, that have actually been helped by discovering The Secret and The Law of Attraction. I would much rather "think positive" than be terrified that I am demon possessed or going to hell because of some sin I didn't even know I commited because God forgot to tell me about it, and yes, I am also one of those weird and wacky New Agey Pagans who actually are learning to walk in balance. It has taken me a little over two years to figure it out but without The Secret, The Law of Attraction and New Age Spirituality, I believe I would still be living the hell called Christianity and trying to be "the good Christian girl".

[TotalWreck]

One of the clowns in "The Secret" is currently in prison for manslaughter of three people.   Does that mean he "attracted" THAT into his life?   And if "you can make anything you happen", how come he wasn't able to make himself keep from going to prison?

 

I think that pretty much tells you all you need to know about whether "The Secret" works or not.

 

 

[stryper]

One of the clowns in "The Secret" is currently in prison for manslaughter of three people.   Does that mean he "attracted" THAT into his life?   And if "you can make anything you happen", how come he wasn't able to make himself keep from going to prison?

 

I think that pretty much tells you all you need to know about whether "The Secret" works or not.

 

 

I looked that one up cause I hadn't heard of it. 

 

 

Ray was convicted of three counts of negligent homicide but acquitted of manslaughter ^[6] [7] following his February 3, 2010, arrest in the deaths of participants at one of his sweat lodgeceremonies.^[8] He was sentenced to two years in Arizona state prison and is scheduled to be released in 2013. ^[9]

 

 

So it partially worked?

[Joshpantera]

You know, by the standard given in the Secret he would have to admit that he somehow attracted the deaths and his conviction by way of his own thoughts and feelings. There's a bit of lecturing in the movie about this very thing - looking at the negative things and admitting that under close analysis we attract them into our lives. It would be interesting to see this Ray interviewed and asked if he still believes that we attract EVERYTHING into our lives, or whether blind chance plays into it after all? 

 

I thought about this quite a bit after watching the movie. I'm willing to admit that a lot of negative things people experience have been attracted into peoples lives. People will subconsciously act self destructive and then cry "why me?" when the like attracting like results begin to unfold. I see it all the time.

 

But what about a baby falling into a pool or lake and drowning? Who or what attracted that?

 

What about the old woman who pulled out onto the highway (apparently not seeing very well) and getting t-boned into the driver side immediately by a corvette? Did the corvette driver attract the collision? Did the poor old lady who was killed instantly attract the collision? I watched him helicoptered away in critical condition and her loose her life instantly as I was walking into the bank to cash my payroll check a few weeks ago. 

 

That's clearly blind chance and being at the wrong place at the wrong time. 

[Margee]

I owe my deconversion to "The Secret".

 

From about a year before the final video was released portions of it were available online.  At my first viewing I thought it was piffle and very unchristian and so I rejected it.  But something stuck and I started to realise how my own thoughts affected how I felt,  and that I could change that by less negative thinking.

 

I tried a few things, like drawing pictures, telling myself that I would succeed with things which brought on anxiety attacks,  things I needed and/or desired seem to come to me.  I lost weight, found the courage to remedy my dental problems, became more socially active. (Changing my balance on my bank statement to $500,000  did NOT work though, lol)  A friend of mine also reported successes using the law of attraction, and I was pretty much sold on it.   I found more on the internet, read some books, discussed with other people.

 

Over time I started to analyze the changes in my life, noticing that my successes were due to having a different attitude, and being more open to what was around me.  That was "the Secret" in my opinion, not some outside magic process granting my wishes.

 

I also realised that 'prayer'  was really the same thing.  Positive thinking, believing, recognising those things around that would be useful.

 

The seeds of doubt about xtianity were sown. 

 

To make a long story short, I eventually said goodbye to my old reliance on the magic invisible sky daddy and his imaginary begotten love-child, and I recognised  the 'holly spritzer' as my own inner self.

 

I know that "The Secret" was primarily a commercial venture, but I do have to say that it did change my life.

 

 

Annier, you've saved me from my long posting tonight! Thank you.   My 'thoughts' exactly. All in the thoughts. I believe you create your own 'story' by the thoughts you think and with the choices you make. This is complete magic!! Even when tragedy strikes, it will all depend on how re-act to the situation. I personally have tried to prepare myself for the very worst things that could happen at this point in my life and I have worked my way through each 'misfortune' and have grieved a lot already. If I got the news that my husband got killed tomorrow, I will faint at first, I will go into shock, I will have friends to help me through it, I will grieve and slowly put my life back in order. It sounds very cold, I know, but I have come to fully (to the best of my ability) accept  'life on life's term's. I've already been through some real 'nasties' in life. Not fun at all.  Life can throw one a terrible curve ball. I've been through a few.

 

 But.....Life is about constant change and very positive thoughts can help you create the story you want.

 

I have changed depression with a thought, I have changed a shit attitude by changing my thought, I have gone from crying over spilt milk to smiling about it within a few minutes. It's all in the attitude. Unless one is suffering  from clinical ' anything'...most  people have the ability to run their own show. That's my 'feeling' on this issue.

 

Wonderful hon!

[TristanJay]

I considered posting this as a separate, new topic, but it may fit here...

 

A couple days ago I was talking and catching up with a friend at the usual club, and I asked in depth about an activity that mentioned.  He said it was called Landmark Forum, and described it as something that was beneficial for him as a focus or source of motivation.  I thought it sounded like an interesting self-help group, or support group of some sort.  Yet he was hesitant about the details.  I asked because I was curious, and showing that I was interested in hearing about what his interests were.  He told me that his girlfriend, who is also there at the club and I've danced with a couple of times and seen at several other social occasions, is in training for the leadership program or forum leader (I'm not exactly sure); he said he would have her chase up some fliers and brochures for it.

 

A day later, I remember him talking about it, and googled it, and came up with some extraordinary and surprising results.  To be perfectly honest, given the descriptions of how the seminars progress, I'm not too keen to engage with this any further.  And this after I showed a pressing curiosity.

 

I've done enough research to come to my own conclusions, but has anyone else here run across or heard of the Landmark Forums?  This seemed like something that fit in this topic.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

If wanting something made you get it then there would be no restraining orders against stalkers.

 

Exactly.

Well, positive, yet REALISTIC view is healthy, but what they are trying to sell is positive view yet COMPLETELY unrealistic and magical. I loled so hard when I read in that "Secret" book that in order to get a husband you have to wear a nice night gawn, buy a bed for two and pretend that your husband is sleeping next to you (firmly believe that he is already there). WTF?! This is how you´re going to find a potential husband?!

True.

 

This whole thing is bullocks. Yeah, sure... not being so negative is helpful. With less "I just can'ts" and more analyzing to see what "I can", you'll get more out of life. Have a realistic view of the world. You don't even have to see something as either negative or positive, whatever happened to neutral? Neither negative nor positive. That's most things in life.

 

I agree with the whole live below your means thing. It does help you build money and makes it easier to stay afloat for a while if you build up money then lose your job.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

"but has anyone else here run across or heard of the Landmark Forums?" 

 

Yes, it is something that used to be called EST, and then The Forum, I guess they keep changing the name to attract new followers. The only one I ever knew who was a part of it related that they get you in a room and won't let you get up for a bathroom break, water, or other, and heap verbal abuse on you until you crack emotionally. Then everything is just fine. It is a mind fuck that they are getting better at as time wears on.

 

Here's a link to a reporter who went through an intro meeting: http://www.motherjones.com/media/2009/07/landmark-42-hours-500-65-breakdowns