God Speaking In The Bible (Why Doesn't People Question This)

[Ramen666]

In the Bible God, talks, gives orders on who to kill and all these crazy rules throughout it. This is something that we all know happens. The biggest question to all this is, where did the quotes actually originate from?I know this is probably an odd topic but it is something that that has been on my mind.

 

In the end we all know what is really going on (as Ex-Christians): It is man just writing down God said X or whatever to overpower and control a population of that era and somehow it became global. My question what is the Christian reasoning and logic behind this. Why doesn't Christians even bother to question these quotes and exactly where they are coming from? What does it sound like when God speaks directly to one person?

 

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

[Inqui]

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

If I were a god I'd be appearing in someone's toast or really well-timed songs on the radio to communicate with people. That's just me though.

[mwc]

     Without a doubt...George Burns.

 

          mwc

[Ravenstar]

He sounds like Morgan Freeman

 

English, of course  lol

 

 

There are a lot of 'quotes' in the Bible by people who were supposedly alone and probably illiterate, it is interesting. It's like there was a journalist running around writing everything down as it happened.

[Vigile]

I visited a crazy dancing-tambourine, rolling-on-the-floor, speaking-in-tongues church once and god clearly spoke in King James when he spoke through the interpreters. 

[HymenaeusAlexander]

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

 

Apparently Yahweh spoke Hebrew. Otherwise the pun he makes on the words adam (man) and adamah (ground) in Genesis 3 doesn't make sense. Adam and Eve spoke Hebrew as well and were fond of such wordplay also.

 

On a related note, the writer of Acts says that Paul claims that Jesus spoke to Paul from heaven on the Damascus road in Hebrew (Acts 26:14), which is odd because Jesus used a line ("kick against the pricks") that was found in several Greek plays and the allusion would have been most obvious in Greek and not Hebrew. Additionally, you have a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus recorded in John 3 that would've presumably been in Aramaic, but which only makes sense in Greek because of the play on the dual meanings of the word pneumatos (wind/spirit).

 

It's almost like these uses of puns, wordplay and allusions are just literary devices and not really a recounting of actual dialogue. Go figure.

[par4dcourse]

 

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

 

Apparently Yahweh spoke Hebrew. Otherwise the pun he makes on the words adam (man) and adamah (ground) in Genesis 3 doesn't make sense. Adam and Eve spoke Hebrew as well and were fond of such wordplay also.

 

On a related note, the writer of Acts says that Paul claims that Jesus spoke to Paul from heaven on the Damascus road in Hebrew (Acts 26:14), which is odd because Jesus used a line ("kick against the pricks") that was found in several Greek plays and the allusion would have been most obvious in Greek and not Hebrew. Additionally, you have a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus recorded in John 3 that would've presumably been in Aramaic, but which only makes sense in Greek because of the play on the dual meanings of the word pneumatos (wind/spirit).

 

It's almost like these uses of puns, wordplay and allusions are just literary devices and not really a recounting of actual dialogue. Go figure.

But he never quite figured out English, so he quit talking and started using hurricanes and volcanoes to communicate.

[sdelsolray]

Think about this one, in the Bible obviously God actually speaks, talks, gives orders on who to kill and all these crazy rules throughout it. Now that God is speaking and quoting him, what is the Christian explanation on that? Where did the quotes actually come from and how exactly did they get them? I know this is probably an odd topic but I always like "where did these quotes actually originate?"

 

We all know what is going on in reality: It is man just writing down God said X or whatever to overpower and control a population of that era and somehow it became global. Why doesn't Christians even bother to question these quotes and exactly where they are coming from? What does it sound like when God speaks and why has he never did it again? Christians say go to the Bible for answers, ok? You found a verse that makes you feel good and what you wanted to hear, this queston still is not answered.

 

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

 

 

Think about this one, in the Bible obviously God actually speaks, talks, gives orders on who to kill and all these crazy rules throughout it. Now that God is speaking and quoting him, what is the Christian explanation on that? Where did the quotes actually come from and how exactly did they get them? I know this is probably an odd topic but I always like "where did these quotes actually originate?"

 

We all know what is going on in reality: It is man just writing down God said X or whatever to overpower and control a population of that era and somehow it became global. Why doesn't Christians even bother to question these quotes and exactly where they are coming from? What does it sound like when God speaks and why has he never did it again? Christians say go to the Bible for answers, ok? You found a verse that makes you feel good and what you wanted to hear, this queston still is not answered.

 

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

Good questions.

 

 There's more.  When two people are alone in the Bible and they speak with each other, who else was there to observe and write down the conversation?  Events occur with no observers. 

 

For example, when Merry and Eowyn spoke with each other alone, who else observed this and wrote it down?  When the Orcs took an unconscious Frodo to the tower who saw this happen (other than the Orcs involved) and wrote it down?  We know the answer.  It is fiction and the writer, JRR Tolkein, made it up.

 

There are hundreds of examples in the Bible.  Who observed Adam being created?  Who observed Cain going to Nod?  How would any human know that God hardened the heart of Pharaoh?  Who observed and recorded Jesus speaking with Satan in the wilderness?  We know the answer.  It is fiction and the unknown writers made it up, or plagiarized it from earlier mythology and fiction.

[HymenaeusAlexander]

 

 

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

 

Apparently Yahweh spoke Hebrew. Otherwise the pun he makes on the words adam (man) and adamah (ground) in Genesis 3 doesn't make sense. Adam and Eve spoke Hebrew as well and were fond of such wordplay also.

 

On a related note, the writer of Acts says that Paul claims that Jesus spoke to Paul from heaven on the Damascus road in Hebrew (Acts 26:14), which is odd because Jesus used a line ("kick against the pricks") that was found in several Greek plays and the allusion would have been most obvious in Greek and not Hebrew. Additionally, you have a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus recorded in John 3 that would've presumably been in Aramaic, but which only makes sense in Greek because of the play on the dual meanings of the word pneumatos (wind/spirit).

 

It's almost like these uses of puns, wordplay and allusions are just literary devices and not really a recounting of actual dialogue. Go figure.

But he never quite figured out English, so he quit talking and started using hurricanes and volcanoes to communicate.

 

I happen to personally know people that believe he communicated perfectly right down the punctuation and chapter and verse divisions in a single 17th century English translation and all other translations, including extant Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, are either subordinate to it or just outright corruptions.

 

I used to think that view was exceptionally insane, but now I realize that it's just as nuts as any of the other claims of most other expressions of Christianity.

[roadrunner]

Karen Armstrong's A history of God explains this. Though I take a lot of what she says with a grain of salt, she points out certain aspects of the societies that embraced god. The god of the old testament was very human-like. People back then believed that you could touch and talk to god. Jacob wrestled him, adam and eve were on a first name basis with him, and he walked back and forth from earth to heaven whenever he wanted to (omnipresence is not thought of yet). They only knew there was Earth so why would god be outside of earth. Of course once society learned more the definition of god changed to make sense. The world seemed larger and how could god see everything if there's more here than what we can see in our 200 mile radius.  Its very interesting  Even now, watching the Kyle Butt (by far the most fundy debater I've seen. Hes a good ol boy) and Dan Barker debate you see how even fundamentalists are asserting that god is "Spaceless, timeless, etc" at one point he even refers to god as a "mind" or "spirit". God is evolving to match what we know about the known and observable world.

[Geezer]

The bible tells us in Acts what Stephen was thinking as he was being martyred. How would bystanders know what Stephen was thinking or what visions he was having as he died?

 

If Jesus was alone in the garden, how would anyone know what he prayed, or that he sweat blood.

 

When you start critiquing the bible the myth of its inerrancy quickly becomes apparent.

[florduh]

Thus sayeth the Lord:

 

"NO, Me-dammit! I said kill the cattle and rape the women. Sheesh."

 

Fuckin' Hebrews.

[sdelsolray]

The bible tells us in Acts what Stephen was thinking as he was being martyred. How would bystanders know what Stephen was thinking or what visions he was having as he died?

 

If Jesus was alone in the garden, how would anyone know what he prayed, or that he sweat blood.

 

When you start critiquing the bible the myth of its inerrancy quickly becomes apparent.

 

 

Such things only show up in works of fiction.

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

Think about this one, in the Bible obviously God actually speaks, talks, gives orders on who to kill and all these crazy rules throughout it. Now that God is speaking and quoting him, what is the Christian explanation on that? Where did the quotes actually come from and how exactly did they get them? I know this is probably an odd topic but I always like "where did these quotes actually originate?"

 

We all know what is going on in reality: It is man just writing down God said X or whatever to overpower and control a population of that era and somehow it became global. Why doesn't Christians even bother to question these quotes and exactly where they are coming from? What does it sound like when God speaks and why has he never did it again? Christians say go to the Bible for answers, ok? You found a verse that makes you feel good and what you wanted to hear, this queston still is not answered.

 

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

Think about this one, in the Bible obviously God actually speaks, talks, gives orders on who to kill and all these crazy rules throughout it. Now that God is speaking and quoting him, what is the Christian explanation on that? Where did the quotes actually come from and how exactly did they get them? I know this is probably an odd topic but I always like "where did these quotes actually originate?"

 

We all know what is going on in reality: It is man just writing down God said X or whatever to overpower and control a population of that era and somehow it became global. Why doesn't Christians even bother to question these quotes and exactly where they are coming from? What does it sound like when God speaks and why has he never did it again? Christians say go to the Bible for answers, ok? You found a verse that makes you feel good and what you wanted to hear, this queston still is not answered.

 

What language does God speak when he spoke to people in the Bible? How would a God speak to someone? (remember the Bible is telling the story now). Interesting thing to think about.

Good questions.

 

There's more. When two people are alone in the Bible and they speak with each other, who else was there to observe and write down the conversation? Events occur with no observers.

 

For example, when Merry and Eowyn spoke with each other alone, who else observed this and wrote it down? When the Orcs took an unconscious Frodo to the tower who saw this happen (other than the Orcs involved) and wrote it down? We know the answer. It is fiction and the writer, JRR Tolkein, made it up.

 

There are hundreds of examples in the Bible. Who observed Adam being created? Who observed Cain going to Nod? How would any human know that God hardened the heart of Pharaoh? Who observed and recorded Jesus speaking with Satan in the wilderness? We know the answer. It is fiction and the unknown writers made it up, or plagiarized it from earlier mythology and fiction.

The christian answer is that god tells unverifiable things through revelation, yes the bible is heavy on unverifiable revelations.

[Jesususedpeyote]

The answer I always got from my church was that God speaks nowadays but only to prophets (preachers, the "real ones"?), and our preacher so happened to be a REAL Prophet (How convenient). Also, because God spoke directly to people in the Old Testament this is why his wrath was so deadly. When he had jesus he lightened up, and so when you masturbate it hurts his wittle feewings and has to send you to hell to burn forever. God is still a dick when you die, but apparently we have to know WHICH pastors are the RIGHT ONES that actually are speaking God's words. How could this possibly go wrong...

[sdelsolray]

...

There are a lot of 'quotes' in the Bible by people who were supposedly alone and probably illiterate, it is interesting. It's like there was a journalist running around writing everything down as it happened.

Or it is simply the fictional writing of the particular author.  

 

Which is more likely?

[Bhim]

When I was a Christian, the typical understanding I was taught at church was that the words of God were usually uttered through a prophet.  This is suggested in the passage from Numbers in which God says that he speaks to Moses face to face, but to others via dreams and visions (I suppose it would be a bit awkward imagining how God communicated this to Aaron and Miriam, but that's another topic).  So the basic idea is that when the Bible says "thus says the Lord..." the message is being relayed by someone else.

 

Is it stupid?  I think so.  But if we're going to argue against Christians, it doesn't hurt to understand their arguments instead of battling strawmen.

[Ramen666]

Christians really believe that? It is just sad that no one ever questioned this.

[Vigile]

A little help:

Indicative Subjunctive

Present
I    do
you  do
he   does
we   do
you  do
they do

Perfect
I    have done
you  have done
he   has done
we   have done
you  have done
they have done

Past
I    did
you  did
he   did
we   did
you  did
they did

Pluperfect
I    had done
you  had done
he   had done
we   had done
you  had done
they had done

Future
I    will do
you  will do
he   will do
we   will do
you  will do
they will do

Future perfect
I    will have done
you  will have done
he   will have done
we   will have done
you  will have done
they will have done

Present
I    do
you  do
he   do
we   do
you  do
they do

Present
I    have done
you  have done
he   have done
we   have done
you  have done
they have done

Imperfect
I    did
you  did
he   did
we   did
you  did
they did

Pluperfect
I    had done
you  had done
he   had done
we   had done
you  had done
they had done

 

 

[miekko]

 

 

On a related note, the writer of Acts says that Paul claims that Jesus spoke to Paul from heaven on the Damascus road in Hebrew (Acts 26:14), which is odd because Jesus used a line ("kick against the pricks") that was found in several Greek plays and the allusion would have been most obvious in Greek and not Hebrew. Additionally, you have a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus recorded in John 3 that would've presumably been in Aramaic, but which only makes sense in Greek because of the play on the dual meanings of the word pneumatos (wind/spirit).

 

The pun on the dual meaning of pneumatos works just as well with Aramaic rucha and Hebrew ruach, which both mean "wind" as well as "spirit" (as well as "breath"). Your source on this seems mistaken.

[miekko]

When I was a Christian, the typical understanding I was taught at church was that the words of God were usually uttered through a prophet.  This is suggested in the passage from Numbers in which God says that he speaks to Moses face to face, but to others via dreams and visions (I suppose it would be a bit awkward imagining how God communicated this to Aaron and Miriam, but that's another topic).  So the basic idea is that when the Bible says "thus says the Lord..." the message is being relayed by someone else.

 

Is it stupid?  I think so.  But if we're going to argue against Christians, it doesn't hurt to understand their arguments instead of battling strawmen.

The belief that some actual god did speak in this manner is probably stupid, but the idea that ancient prophets did speak messages from the gods, and that scribes even would have accepted the utterances of the prophets as though they were straight from the mouth of God does not seem particularly weird. Of course we know that most of the OT was written way after the time these things were supposed to have occurred, but I do think they represent the prophet's function in some iron-age societies rather well. In that sense, part of your church's teaching on this seems relatively reasonable, it's just the supernatural bit that is unwarranted.

[miekko]

A little help:

Indicative Subjunctive

Present

I    do

you  do

he   does

we   do

you  do

they do

Perfect

I    have done

you  have done

he   has done

we   have done

you  have done

they have done

Past

I    did

you  did

he   did

we   did

you  did

they did

Pluperfect

I    had done

you  had done

he   had done

we   had done

you  had done

they had done

Future

I    will do

you  will do

he   will do

we   will do

you  will do

they will do

...

I guess the point  you are trying to make is that since the prophetic utterances in the OT are given in first person, the author apparently imagined that God in fact was present and uttered these things himself. We do know, though, that in many languages, reported speech in first person is maintained in first person even though it was uttered by some third person. We have good reason to think this was the case in Hebrew - there's any number of messengers bringing a message in which the sender is referred to as "I".

 

So, if I understood your argument correctly, I can only say that it's strongly mistaken and rests on a naive understanding of how languages work. Alas, a common problem among people who like to think of themselves as rationalists or clever or such.

[Vigile]

Ha ha, no my point was to try and get Ramen to start using proper grammar when he posts.  He has a college degree and English is his native language so I don't think it's too much to ask that he use correct subject-verb agreement. 

[Ramen666]

I edited my post. I wasn't doing to well yesterday and had some beer last night. It has been corrected.

[RipVanWinkle]

Why don't they question? Brainwashed. Truly! For the same reason we didn't. bill