I Have Something To Say

[MindAndWillX1111]

Did any of you guys after leaving the faith or Christianity start to question almost everything? after leaving the faith I can't help but to question everything, things I should not even question, because in my mind if I was wrong on something like the bible and there seems to be no omnipotent type of god then what else can I be wrong on. so many people believe in a omnipotent perfect type of god, and I find the lesser gods to sound more likely to exist then that kind of god.

 

I find all the gods people ascribed to be absurd so far. I find prayer to be no different then enchanted spells, prayer and the occult seem to be the same thing to me, you enchant words and try to make magical stuff happen.

 

I'm surrounded by people who in a sense believe in wizards even if they do not see it like this. many are not looking for explanations because it requires the use of your mind. it's far easier to say god did it and stop there then to find real explanations for things in reality. though, I can no longer force myself to believe in the bible, I do not remain closed minded, for who knows what we may be ignorant of or what we may find out in the future.

 

 

[kolaida]

Yes, I definitely question everything even some things I shouldn't.  At the same time, though, I feel way less paranoid and am able to take quicker action whereas before I spent time reflecting on whether or not I was following God's plan.  But, yes, I question everything. 

[amateur]

Yes.  We get one shot at life.  When we see people blindly accepting rules and magic and superstition, and realize that's not real, I think it's normal to start questioning everything.  It opens up a bigger world, a more real world.  And staying open minded keeps that world bigger.

[TrueFreedom]

Let that pendulum swing.  Skepticism is healthy.  Get to know your bologny detection kit.  Learn how to spot logical fallacies.  Cheers!

[sdelsolray]

 

Did any of you guys after leaving the faith or Christianity start to question almost everything? after leaving the faith I can't help but to question everything, things I should not even question, because in my mind if I was wrong on something like the bible and there seems to be no omnipotent type of god then what else can I be wrong on. so many people believe in a omnipotent perfect type of god, and I find the lesser gods to sound more likely to exist then that kind of god.

 

I find all the gods people ascribed to be absurd so far. I find prayer to be no different then enchanted spells, prayer and the occult seem to be the same thing to me, you enchant words and try to make magical stuff happen.

 

I'm surrounded by people who in a sense believe in wizards even if they do not see it like this. many are not looking for explanations because it requires the use of your mind. it's far easier to say god did it and stop there then to find real explanations for things in reality. though, I can no longer force myself to believe in the bible, I do not remain closed minded, for who knows what we may be ignorant of or what we may find out in the future.

 

Healthy skepticism is part of any rational thinker's toolbox.  Use it frequently, just not to an extreme.  Observation is another valuable tool.  Do you observe any peer pressure in your life pressuring you to conform to certain religious beliefs or dogma?

[Fweethawt]

Yes, its like your mind is actually being used for the first time -- and it is loving it.

 

Pretend your mind is a pair of wings and you are just now learning how to move and stretch them.

Eventually, you'll fly...

[Galien]

I don 't believe there is anything that should not be questioned. I question everything even more than I did before. This has resulted in me questioning some of the ingrained things we do as a society and rejecting them. It is amost like I have desocialised myself, but that is not a bad thing.

[Tzarza]

Just after deconversion, I felt like I couldn't trust anything, or take people and ideas at face value. It wasn't exactly skepticism, it was more like chaotic, utter confusion. But over time I worked through things, and I sort of equalized. I am now much more skeptical than I was before, but in a very healthy way. The world is a bigger, brighter place, and I feel confident in my ability to navigate it. 

 

 

Pretend your mind is a pair of wings and you are just now learning how to move and stretch them.
Eventually, you'll fly...

 

Fweethawt is absolutely right. In time, you will learn to fly. 

[midniterider]

I was pretty skeptical even as a Christian. Ex-c has helped me to realize that stuff, not necessarily religious stuff,  needs to be questioned. Other people's rules need to be rejected if they are unfair or stupid.

[RipVanWinkle]

Mind: Welcome.You are off to a great start! Questioning everything is what a rational person does. But

remember that there is a big difference between skepticism and cynicism. The latter is unhealthy. Also

one needs to be practical. For example, you may be skeptical of your boss' opinion, but it is practical

not to let anyone know.

 

I think you will like it hear and learn a lot. bill

[MindAndWillX1111]

Good points everyone.

 

I do not understand how to argue with people who in the same breath believe in the ultimate magical entity, meaning they're not looking for real explanations for things. I wait and see what the future holds for this world.

[MindAndWillX1111]

Do any of you guys have any fear still left over from leaving the faith? just wondering.

[gall]

 

Did any of you guys after leaving the faith or Christianity start to question almost everything? after leaving the faith I can't help but to question everything, things I should not even question, because in my mind if I was wrong on something like the bible and there seems to be no omnipotent type of god then what else can I be wrong on. so many people believe in a omnipotent perfect type of god, and I find the lesser gods to sound more likely to exist then that kind of god.

 

I find all the gods people ascribed to be absurd so far. I find prayer to be no different then enchanted spells, prayer and the occult seem to be the same thing to me, you enchant words and try to make magical stuff happen.

 

I'm surrounded by people who in a sense believe in wizards even if they do not see it like this. many are not looking for explanations because it requires the use of your mind. it's far easier to say god did it and stop there then to find real explanations for things in reality. though, I can no longer force myself to believe in the bible, I do not remain closed minded, for who knows what we may be ignorant of or what we may find out in the future.

 

 

The word and content of the word magic is a way that we have explained things in the past before reason took a better hold on some and when men and women were far less educated. Look at what people will so easily and readily believe in the third world. It is far easier for evil organizations like the roman catholic church and the like to prey on the third world than the rest of us in any first world area by far.

 

Magic is a word we could use to explain the unknown. The problem with that is that it generally is surrounded by fear and superstition which are both unfounded. Fear of the unknown not really understanding that it is fear you have an issue with not the unknown is what grips most people in this world. They don't know what will happen when they die and cling to anything they can sometimes. They don't want to feel afraid and alone and religions use this against them. Magic can explain nothing. Reason explains the world for us. Logic defines how we should interact with it. gods were never needed but it took time for mankind to reach a larger height of intelligence and knowledge more of us have access to now. The problem is it takes time for all of us to change. Personally I see a day where it is all done and we drop the "magic" and actually seek to live and thrive all together all as one.

 

“It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” Dr. Carl Sagan

 

this guy new a thing or two and had a lot of great things to say. I will live like that over anything. Happiness in delusion is still a delusion.

[amateur]

Any fear left over since leaving the faith?  Yeah, every once in a while in the middle of the night if I wake up and my heart is bothering me (I have a congenital heart issue that makes it randomly beat super fast which makes me feel a bit faint, and can make it hard to think straight -- you know, oxygen to the brain issue.  I'm on meds that help and it's normally just fine).  If my heart is palpitating like crazy in the middle of the night and won't stop I tend to go into a bit of a panic (which doesn't help anything) and think I'm going to die, then I think what if I go to hell?  Now, I was never threatened in any way growing up that hell was especially real, but it's not like you don't know the concept just living in our society and going to church in general.  When I get my heart to go back to normal the panic leaves.  But it's hard not to think about how really evil the concept of eternal hell is, and whoever made that up was one evil bastard.  And teaching it to anybody, let alone letting young kids know the (made up) concept, is beyond evil.  After some years and reading lots of stuff on this site, I'm not afraid of that now.  But at 3 am, with a palpitating heart that won't stop sometimes for HOURS, it gives my mind plenty of time to wander around hellish concepts.  Sometimes I just lay there and wish I would die in general because it's super annoying being kept awake for hours with palpitations and faintness -- if I feel annoyed I don't get scared at all!  Lately, I've gotten a bit better about it.  I either try to get up and get my meds, OR try to just fall back asleep, which is possible if I don't get into the panic mode.

 

I think residual fear about hell or other issues is extremely normal for quite some time.  You can't just automatically ignore something you "knew" for most of your life.  It slowly fades.  Keep learning.

[RaLeah]

I've changed my mind in the areas of politics, history, economics, social issues, and how I treat other people (with more kindness and less judgment / but under no obligation to try to win someone to Christ or my way of thinking).

 

Any fear left? No, not anymore. I was very afraid as a Christian though--very afraid of death and hell, very afraid and upset for friends, relatives, and perfect strangers that hell existed and they were going there.

 

I felt a lot of relief right away once I realized hell and judgment isn't real. I did have a few flashback dreams about hell (same way you have nightmares of missing a college exam years after you've graduated), but once I woke up, I could laugh at them and shake it off and let the relief flood back in.

 

If you still feel any fear, don't be hard on yourself, but do counter-act a fearful thought immediately with the truth.

Imagine your old deeply entrenched thoughts as well-worn pathways in your brain; you've abandoned those old pathways and made new ones. But your brain still skips or trips into the old road once in a while out of habit. Shift it back over to rational thought, and allow the weeds take over on the old path. They will. It takes time to form a new habit, and that includes habits of thought as well as action.

[MindAndWillX1111]

Any fear left over since leaving the faith?  Yeah, every once in a while in the middle of the night if I wake up and my heart is bothering me (I have a congenital heart issue that makes it randomly beat super fast which makes me feel a bit faint, and can make it hard to think straight -- you know, oxygen to the brain issue.  I'm on meds that help and it's normally just fine).  If my heart is palpitating like crazy in the middle of the night and won't stop I tend to go into a bit of a panic (which doesn't help anything) and think I'm going to die, then I think what if I go to hell?  Now, I was never threatened in any way growing up that hell was especially real, but it's not like you don't know the concept just living in our society and going to church in general.  When I get my heart to go back to normal the panic leaves.  But it's hard not to think about how really evil the concept of eternal hell is, and whoever made that up was one evil bastard.  And teaching it to anybody, let alone letting young kids know the (made up) concept, is beyond evil.  After some years and reading lots of stuff on this site, I'm not afraid of that now.  But at 3 am, with a palpitating heart that won't stop sometimes for HOURS, it gives my mind plenty of time to wander around hellish concepts.  Sometimes I just lay there and wish I would die in general because it's super annoying being kept awake for hours with palpitations and faintness -- if I feel annoyed I don't get scared at all!  Lately, I've gotten a bit better about it.  I either try to get up and get my meds, OR try to just fall back asleep, which is possible if I don't get into the panic mode.

 

I think residual fear about hell or other issues is extremely normal for quite some time.  You can't just automatically ignore something you "knew" for most of your life.  It slowly fades.  Keep learning.

You sparked my curiosity. if you where on the verge of death would you fear hell or god of the bible or any god for that matter? regardless, I cannot find even one good reason to punish even the most hideous people eternally, whether mentally or physically or both.....it's not moral at all.

[MindAndWillX1111]

I've changed my mind in the areas of politics, history, economics, social issues, and how I treat other people (with more kindness and less judgment / but under no obligation to try to win someone to Christ or my way of thinking).

 

Any fear left? No, not anymore. I was very afraid as a Christian though--very afraid of death and hell, very afraid and upset for friends, relatives, and perfect strangers that hell existed and they were going there.

 

I felt a lot of relief right away once I realized hell and judgment isn't real. I did have a few flashback dreams about hell (same way you have nightmares of missing a college exam years after you've graduated), but once I woke up, I could laugh at them and shake it off and let the relief flood back in.

 

If you still feel any fear, don't be hard on yourself, but do counter-act a fearful thought immediately with the truth.

Imagine your old deeply entrenched thoughts as well-worn pathways in your brain; you've abandoned those old pathways and made new ones. But your brain still skips or trips into the old road once in a while out of habit. Shift it back over to rational thought, and allow the weeds take over on the old path. They will. It takes time to form a new habit, and that includes habits of thought as well as action.

If your willingly, and you can give me the short version...what made you question the faith and then ultimately leave it? this question also applies for others who read this as well.

[ExXex]

You know when little kids ask you a question and then you answer it and they go 'yes but why?' and then do it again for the next question and it goes on and onnn?

I feel like that!

 

 

Don't be afraid to question things, just sometimes you have to learn to accept the answers and try to hold on to the things that are important to you. At the start of my deconversion it felt like my entire brain was being re-arranged, it has settled down a bit now as I've accepted the answers I don't have yet.

 

 

I don't fear death anymore, instead I feel curious, maybe when we die it'll lead to even more questions! Maybe there will be wizards haha.

[MindAndWillX1111]

You know when little kids ask you a question and then you answer it and they go 'yes but why?' and then do it again for the next question and it goes on and onnn?

I feel like that!

 

 

Don't be afraid to question things, just sometimes you have to learn to accept the answers and try to hold on to the things that are important to you. At the start of my deconversion it felt like my entire brain was being re-arranged, it has settled down a bit now as I've accepted the answers I don't have yet.

 

 

I don't fear death anymore, instead I feel curious, maybe when we die it'll lead to even more questions! Maybe there will be wizards haha.

Good points.

[MindAndWillX1111]

The greatest issues is not the contradictions in the bible, the morality of the old testament, the hideous punishment of eternal suffering, not that is was written in a time when man knew very little. the greatest issue is with god of the bible and all theist type of gods is that you believe in a all-magical wizard that can cast spells with mere commands without explanation, the pinnacle of what magic is. god could make the universe with are kind of life any way he wants. think of any fantasy based reality that we humans have created and this god could make that universe or reality possible with his super magical powers. 

 

Instead of atheists asking did a god create the universe ask them how he did it. did god use per existing materials and go into a lab and make this universe, or do you have in a sense have to say god created things out of thin air or complete nothingness because if he does not this negates he is the only thing without beginning. You also have to assume that god existed at some point for who knows how long in complete nothingness....I do not even know what that is, he just sat there for one long time...sounds kinda strange. does god need other sentient life forms to have a purpose? these kind of mega type of gods are the most nonsensical to believe in. the gods of the old where not good enough, so they lump all the gods into one, getting rid of all their flaws, making one into a perfect entity with absolute power and perfection, though if we humans need to take responsibility for are actions and for are own children at times, and for other things as well, a god with that much power and knowledge has to take some kind of responsibility over his own creation, thus, will negate god's prefect status. these kind of gods are not real as I see it.

 

I cannot force myself to believe in this kind of god no matter how smart and intelligent many theist's are.

 

This is how I see it.

[MindAndWillX1111]

I'm also trying to seek what is real, I think it least. we never know when we may be wrong or what we may find out there. 

 

Keep your minds opened to a certain degree.

 

Peace.

[gall]

Good points everyone.

 

I do not understand how to argue with people who in the same breath believe in the ultimate magical entity, meaning they're not looking for real explanations for things. I wait and see what the future holds for this world.

 

Do not try to find rational debate with an irrational person. It cannot happen. Just accept them as they are and try to let them know you do not accept their doctrine in a respectful way.

 

All any of us can do is wait to see what the future holds... unless you know something we don't.

[RaLeah]

What made me question my faith and then leave it? 

 

First, taking the whole thing literally started to feel more and more absurd to my mind when all the mythology of the old testament had all the hallmarks of fairy tales and myths. Noah's ark being one of the more outrageous examples of things grown ups are asked to take literally. 

 

Next, whether I meant to or not, I had some exposure to the concept of evolution, and even though my school didn't teach it (and actually tried to disprove it) it made a whole lot of sense the more I looked at it. 

 

Finally, the history of humanity pre-dates the bible by a whole lot of time. And there were dinosaurs long before us. Studying the origin of various religions and seeing them borrowing from each other helped me see how man-made it all was. 

 

But really, I never liked the idea of hell and it didn't seem to mesh with the concept of a loving god. Why would a loving god create humans and a heaven / hell eternity for them, wherein he knows the majority will eternally suffer in terrible flames of agony? I mean... what??? Why not just make them stop existing? Why not send them off to another planet? Clearly this was written in a time when people believed you could go "up" to heaven (hence the whole tower of babel story) or "down" to hell. They had no concept of outer space, other planets, other suns, etc. The concept of an underworld was already prevalent in the time the bible was written, so it was just borrowed and adapted for christianity. 

 

You gotta admit: it's a pretty effective way to keep people in the faith, using both a carrot and stick. Heaven as an incentive for you if you stay in, hell as the most dreadful concept a human could conceive of for the consequence if you leave. 

 

I'm not at all afraid of dying anymore. It will just feel like it was before I was born. The world will go on without me, and I'll be unconscious once again--but also pain free, zero suffering. Life and death are natural processes. I intend to make the very most out of my life while I'm here, hopefully contribute meaningful and worthwhile things to the world before I go, and enjoy and learn and love as much as I can. Life is such a beautiful opportunity to experience the universe, I feel so grateful I get to be here right now, especially in this age of information right at our fingertips. I feel lucky every day I'm alive. 

[MindAndWillX1111]

 

Good points everyone.

 

I do not understand how to argue with people who in the same breath believe in the ultimate magical entity, meaning they're not looking for real explanations for things. I wait and see what the future holds for this world.

 

Do not try to find rational debate with an irrational person. It cannot happen. Just accept them as they are and try to let them know you do not accept their doctrine in a respectful way.

 

All any of us can do is wait to see what the future holds... unless you know something we don't.

 

I do know something you do not...I am the creator of all existence, LOL , but I hope we discover something amazing in my time. I'm still young.

[MindAndWillX1111]

What made me question my faith and then leave it? 

 

First, taking the whole thing literally started to feel more and more absurd to my mind when all the mythology of the old testament had all the hallmarks of fairy tales and myths. Noah's ark being one of the more outrageous examples of things grown ups are asked to take literally. 

 

Next, whether I meant to or not, I had some exposure to the concept of evolution, and even though my school didn't teach it (and actually tried to disprove it) it made a whole lot of sense the more I looked at it. 

 

Finally, the history of humanity pre-dates the bible by a whole lot of time. And there were dinosaurs long before us. Studying the origin of various religions and seeing them borrowing from each other helped me see how man-made it all was. 

 

But really, I never liked the idea of hell and it didn't seem to mesh with the concept of a loving god. Why would a loving god create humans and a heaven / hell eternity for them, wherein he knows the majority will eternally suffer in terrible flames of agony? I mean... what??? Why not just make them stop existing? Why not send them off to another planet? Clearly this was written in a time when people believed you could go "up" to heaven (hence the whole tower of babel story) or "down" to hell. They had no concept of outer space, other planets, other suns, etc. The concept of an underworld was already prevalent in the time the bible was written, so it was just borrowed and adapted for christianity. 

 

You gotta admit: it's a pretty effective way to keep people in the faith, using both a carrot and stick. Heaven as an incentive for you if you stay in, hell as the most dreadful concept a human could conceive of for the consequence if you leave. 

 

I'm not at all afraid of dying anymore. It will just feel like it was before I was born. The world will go on without me, and I'll be unconscious once again--but also pain free, zero suffering. Life and death are natural processes. I intend to make the very most out of my life while I'm here, hopefully contribute meaningful and worthwhile things to the world before I go, and enjoy and learn and love as much as I can. Life is such a beautiful opportunity to experience the universe, I feel so grateful I get to be here right now, especially in this age of information right at our fingertips. I feel lucky every day I'm alive. 

Eternal suffering is the most evil of all doctrines. forget the old testament, Jesus Christ, AKA, The Great I AM, Immanuel, is the one who spoke about hell and told about it. god and Jesus are the same according to many versions of Christianity.

 

I do not comprehend why some atheists think Jesus was kinda nice when he will cast most people in a furnace of hell fire to be tormented day and night forever supposedly on the white throne judgment day, wait, hell and death will be then be cast into the lake of fire. this is the same Jesus who will judge fiercely and say I never knew you to many people who claim to be one of his. the same person who will come back during the great pangs of the earth with a great army at his side. I'm sure you know all this, but I do not get why some paint Jesus as this beacon of niceness. I know some Christians discard most of the bible but still claim to follow Jesus....I cannot help but laugh. the real Jesus of the bible is being candy coated. the same Jesus that said to love the world is to be a enemy of God, the same Jesus who said you must love him more then anyone else or your not one of his, on and on we can go. 

 

I have yet to see a single Christian or theist perform a super act of abilities by praying....it seems I will never find it. I was trying to find it at one point, but at best you'll hear a few wild clams that are never verifiable. theists that rely on all the same conventional ways as the rest of us do not believe prayer in it's true form....their actions say other wise.

 

Take Care.