I'm a Christain. But it's the "sending to hell" thing that gets me still...

[nick5]

Had it not been for whoever it was who first seized upon the notion of a god and passed it on, ad infinitum, there would be no reason for me or anyone to carry this label. The label exists only because god-concepts exist.

 

Yeah I've been thinking about that. It's actually a real scandal that this term has survived untill this day. Think about it this way: there's no such thing as an "un-alchemist". Alchemy is bullshit, this is a well known fact so we don't need this term. The same is true for religion, so I refuse to describe myself an an atheist.

[scitsofreaky]

It seems to me that there isn't a very good case for the existence of hell in The Bible anyway. As people have already said (but I don't think it can be stressed enough), the doctrine of hell was contrived by the church to scare people into believeing.

If God is love, as it says, then nobody has anything to worry about because love keeps no records of wrong (don't know the verse, but I know it is there).

[Asimov]

Had it not been for whoever it was who first seized upon the notion of a god and passed it on, ad infinitum, there would be no reason for me or anyone to carry this label. The label exists only because god-concepts exist.

 

Yeah I've been thinking about that. It's actually a real scandal that this term has survived untill this day. Think about it this way: there's no such thing as an "un-alchemist". Alchemy is bullshit, this is a well known fact so we don't need this term. The same is true for religion, so I refuse to describe myself an an atheist.

 

I like the label Atheist.

[Checkmate]

...............

If God is love, as it says, then nobody has anything to worry about because love keeps no records of wrong (don't know the verse, but I know it is there).

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 is probably what you're thinking of.

 

"Pastor" Grinch

[Lycorth]

It seems to me that there isn't a very good case for the existence of hell in The Bible anyway. As people have already said (but I don't think it can be stressed enough), the doctrine of hell was contrived by the church to scare people into believeing.

If God is love, as it says, then nobody has anything to worry about because love keeps no records of wrong (don't know the verse, but I know it is there).

 

You said it, scitso. If God is love, Hell cannot be. You can't love someone and then let them be tortured forever for a little "uncleanness". A dirty dish may have no place in the cupboard with the clean ones, but that's why you wash it off, first. It won't go under the faucet by itself, perhaps, but it won't reject being washed, either. And a dirty dish that is perfectly good and useable isn't trashed because it's dirty.

 

Certainly, it's reasonable to assume that our creator(s) has more love for us than for dirty tableware, no? If I place "faith" in anything, it's that we will be treated reasonably and kindly and fairly when we go to the next life (assuming we aren't reincarnated or just sleep and dream forever). Far better than hoping Biblegodzilla doesn't blast me with his Radioactive Hellfire Breath for all eternity.

[I Broke Free]

 

No wonder so many Christians wear smiles with terror at the edges.

 

I have always been at a loss to describe that “look.”

 

Thanks Pitchu, that remark is a keeper.

 

IBF

[pitchu]

 

No wonder so many Christians wear smiles with terror at the edges.

 

I have always been at a loss to describe that “look.”

 

Thanks Pitchu, that remark is a keeper.

 

IBF

 

Thanks yourself, IBF.

 

I'm especially wary of that "look" on Christian women when it's accompanied by a pious 30 degree leftward tilt of the head. Creepy.

 

 

I like the label Atheist.

 

Me too, Asimov. If for no other reason than that using it can bring a little excitement to an otherwise dull day.

[Guest DrepmoreH]

The christian heaven is my hell.

 

 

seconded.........harps???? white? where are the pastries, sausage rolls and pizzas jesus? fuck it, hell it is.

[Wertbag]

My aunty was a good Catholic woman, and sadly she had a still born child. She went to the church which she had been a member of for over 20 years and asked permission to have a small cermony and burial. She was told that as the baby had never been baptised and was born with sin it would now be burning in hell and there was no way they would allow such a baby to be buried on holy ground!

Talk about kicking her while she was down... can you feel the love?!

[Joyous1]

My aunty was a good Catholic woman, and sadly she had a still born child. She went to the church which she had been a member of for over 20 years and asked permission to have a small cermony and burial. She was told that as the baby had never been baptised and was born with sin it would now be burning in hell and there was no way they would allow such a baby to be buried on holy ground!

unbelievable!

 

Talk about kicking her while she was down... can you feel the love?!

 

:angry: heartless bastards

[quicksand]

But, my question to ya'll is. Do you guys not believe in God at all? Or, do you just not believe what Christians believe about HOW to get to heaven?

...there is not a mention of eternal torture ANYWHERE in the OT...don't you think that a little bit, odd? In the first five books you will not find a mention of heaven or hell

I want to expound upon this point.

 

In Genesis, God is busy creating light, then the stars, dividing firmament from water, etc, but nowhere in Genesis does it state that God created Hell, the physical abode that keeps kids sweating at night in fear.

 

Really, Hell is later theological concept stemming from Anathusian and Augustinian theologies.

[SweetSouthernHeretic]

Hello and welcome Rick,

 

There was recently a *very* interesting segment on the PRI radio program This American Life which pertains to this subject. Unfortunately the site won't give me a permalink, but if you go there, look for the segment entitled "Heretics" dated 12/16/04 (#304).

 

The segment is about Bishop Carlton Pearson, the "spiritual father" (so to speak) of the televangelist and T.D. Jakes--Pearson has stopped believing in hell and now preaches what is termed a "gospel of inclusion."

 

You're certainly not the only one, even among Christians, who's been doing some critical thinking about the idea of hell. What I remember off the top of my head is that the Jews had "sheol," which was simply translated as "the grave," and the idea of fiery punishment didn't actually come along until much later.

 

SSH

[nightflight]

Read the bible for yourself Rick, there is not a mention of eternal torture ANYWHERE in the OT...don't you think that a little bit, odd? In the first five books you will not find a mention of heaven or hell, only earthly blessings and curses. No warning for Adam and Eve, no warning for Abraham, Isaac, Jacab, Noah, Moses not even a hint of warning for eternal torture.

 

True! All the threats Yahweh made to the Israelites were temporal; famine, pestilince, enslavement, etc. Moses supposedly was raised in Egypt where there was definite belief in afterlife punishment, however in the books he is purported to have authored there is no mention of "hell". In fact, as I once read, "hell" comes from Egypt and Babylon.

[Open_Minded]

But, my question to ya'll is. Do you guys not believe in God at all? Or, do you just not believe what Christians believe about HOW to get to heaven?

 

That depends, we have liberal Christians on this site who do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Deists, who believe in a creator but that it is not defined by any religious book. Pagans, atheists and agnostics. .....

 

Read the bible with your eyes open...

 

Hello Rick:

 

SerenityNow gave the most efficient response. I'm a liberal Christian - I don't believe in hell and question many other things fundamentalists teach.

 

The only additional piece of advice I could give you is to keep asking questions and keep your mind open. Following your spiritual path with an open and questioning mind will land you in a much better place than holding onto a "god" who condemns people to a place of eternal torture.

[essence]

"Hell" can be read as Jesus comparing the Jews demiss as outcast from their society.

 

The Jerusalem dump in their own backyard with its "smoke rising up forever" that destroyed both body and soul, "where the fire is not quenched and the worm dieth not".

 

The worms eat garbage at dump sites. Here is the comparison of "hell" and where its meaning was contained.

 

Also, their name would not be written in their "book of life" in remembrance of them.

 

"Do you guys not believe in God at all?"

 

I can only speak for myself here. No, and the reasoning of not believing comes from exactly what the Bible itself declares. God was not God to any but those in Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God was never God to the whole world, because God separated a people to himself, to be his own. One must then consider why the prophets wrote in such a biased and secular way. The prophets were jealous and so made their God a jealous god, a god who hated other people but gave his devoted loyalty to the sons of Jacob called Israel.

 

When Jesus preached "Hell" he preached damnation to his own brethren. When Jesus said he was sent to none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel, he was speaking of his own brethren. Jesus was not sent to any Gentiles in Rome or elsewhere.

 

Once you realize that Jesus was not sent to you, it's pretty easy to declare yourself an Atheist.

[Mr. Neil]

You know... I'm sorry. I don't mean to side-track this topic. But has anyone noticed the rather ironic misspelling in the title of this topic? I've been having to bite my lip every time I see it.