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Goodbye Jesus

Christian Fundamentalism


Deva

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Just want to say I hated it when I as 15, I hate it today at 55 and I will hate it if i live to be 100!

 

It is the absolute nadir of religion (no, not all religions are that bad), the absolute bottom level of falsity and probably the worst philosophy ever devised by man. My parents fell for the crap hook, line and sinker and so I cannot have any sort of relationship with them as an adult.

 

And I spent years trying to make sense of it, reconcile it with my mind, and feel good about it.  I was unsuccessful-- and I will never either make sense of it or reconcile myself with it. And that's OK!

 

So, I hate the rapture, the so-called good news, the lousy plan of salvation, the end times crap, the lousy preachers I was forced to listen to, the disgusting scriptures I had to memorize, and all the crummy Christian books I had to read before I saw how bad it was!

 

Hitchens starting at 1:51 on regarding Jerry Falwell - "This ugly little charlatan... people like that should be out in the street... selling pencils from a cup!...the hell with him.. if he could have been given an enema he could have been buried in a matchbox."

 

I could not have said it better myself.  Moral majority indeed. What a scandal and what a horrible person he was.

 

http://youtu.be/uchPPbJep8g?t=1m51s

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Goodbye Jesus

Whoa, slow your roll Deva!

 

I once read that acknowledging someone as your enemy is a form of respect. I agree with that idea. JF and the "Moral Majority" are not worth your time to even think about. 

 

I once worked as a telephone receptionist during a TBN telethon and it made me so sick and angry that I had to just leave. While it's true that there are evil people out there (all the Benny Hinns etc), it's equally true that the people who listen to them bear the responsibility of failing to think. I used to feel really sorry for those people that are getting fleeced but I simply cannot look at them as poor simpletons who are incapable of thought and are therefore victims. These are people who make a choice to be fleeced. 

 

So long as such people exist, there will be people who will take advantage of them. It is the fault of the lazy, non-thinkers far more than it is the fault of the Jerry Falwells of the world.In this day and age when information is so readily available, there is simply no excuse for any of them.

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I am sure you are right, slave2six, they aren't worth renting space in my head, but it keeps me here.

 

The fact that there are lazy non-thinkers - I don't excuse them either but I also see how they were crippled in some cases from early childhood.

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Religions usually start to turn to fundamentalism when they feel threatened or are under attack.  Since 9/11, christians in America have felt threatened by the growing pull of islam in this country.  But, there is now also a higher percentage of Americans who claim atheism, secular humanism, or some other form of non-belief than ever before.  I'm not saying that christian fundamentalism is a good thing, but if Christians are feeling a bit of discomfort and resorting to fundamentalism, then it may be a good sign.  It certainly gives some hope to our future as a secular nation.

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Hi!

 

I didn't grow up in a Fundamentalist home or anything, and I'm not quite sure what Fundamentalism is to be honest. I read up on it, and I know it exists in other religions, but could someone give me a few Christian denominations that belong to fundamentalist beliefs?

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Deva, I completely share your strong antipathy towards Christian fundamentalism.  What I wonder is: why don't most people?  Most Christians in America aren't fundamentalists, yet so many non-fundamentalists view evangelical Christianity as an acceptable religion.  Other organizations like the KKK, neo-Nazis, Black Panthers, etc. are properly understood as based on harmful or evil doctrines.  Yet people don't seem to realize that evangelical Christianity is likewise based on hate.

 

I hope that some day, "Jesus" and "hell" will be words that aren't allowed on primetime TV.

 

 

Hi!

 

I didn't grow up in a Fundamentalist home or anything, and I'm not quite sure what Fundamentalism is to be honest. I read up on it, and I know it exists in other religions, but could someone give me a few Christian denominations that belong to fundamentalist beliefs?

 

Here are a few examples off the top of my head:

 

Southern Baptist Convention (do not confuse with North American Baptist Convention)

Presbyterian Church in America (do not confuse with PC-USA)

Orthodox Presbyterian Church (same as above)

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (do not confuse with ELCA)

Lutheran Church Wisconsin Synod (same as above)

Evangelical Free Church

 

There are also churches that do not belong to specific denominations, but which are definitely fundamentalist.  Anything that says "independent fundamental Baptist" will definitely be fundamentalist.

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Pentecostal denominations are usually also fundamentalist.  These include Assemblies of God, Church of God, Foursquare, Pentecostal Holiness Church, and any number of non-denominational Pentecostal fellowships.

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Whoa, Deva. I'll agree, Falwell was a troll, but can I ask what brought this on? Just curious.

 

Hi!

 

I didn't grow up in a Fundamentalist home or anything, and I'm not quite sure what Fundamentalism is to be honest. I read up on it, and I know it exists in other religions, but could someone give me a few Christian denominations that belong to fundamentalist beliefs?

Fundamentalist Xianity is the belief that the Bible is inerrant, to put it simply. Hence the anti-gay, anti-woman, "god can do anything he wants and still be perfect" tripe.

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I am sure you are right, slave2six, they aren't worth renting space in my head, but it keeps me here.

 

The fact that there are lazy non-thinkers - I don't excuse them either but I also see how they were crippled in some cases from early childhood.

 

I hope that this isn't all that keeps you here! I've met some amazing folks here, I've learned an awful lot, and occasionally I've been able to help someone else. I hope you stick around for those reasons. I think you have a lot to contribute.

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Bible + take steaming shit on it. Take video + show it to fundies = WIN. :lmao:

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Hi!

 

I didn't grow up in a Fundamentalist home or anything, and I'm not quite sure what Fundamentalism is to be honest. I read up on it, and I know it exists in other religions, but could someone give me a few Christian denominations that belong to fundamentalist beliefs?

 

Pretty much any denomination that tries to scare people with hell and the end-times will produce fundamentalist believers. You generally find such people to be intolerant of, well, pretty much everyone who isn't in their church.

 

They are the same loons who run the Tea Party and who would love to see America become a theocracy. They tend to be militant, extremely vocal, and highly politically involved.

 

Just like Jesus. rolleyes.gif

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Fundamentalism = Willful Ignorance.

 

There are too many holes in their line of faith to be ignored.

 

My best example would include purposeful ignoring of scripture about NOT speaking in tongues.

 

“Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:
but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.” (1 Corinthians 14:22)

 

And the fact they completely ignore the fact that tongue speaking is present in many other pagan religions, like at the Oracle of Delphi back in the hey day of Greece around 400 BC.

 

I mean, fundamentalism was a push back against the changing tides of belief in the Scriptures being infallible back in the 19th century. These people would continue pushing on a mountain to move it with their faith until they died of starvation and exposure.

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Fundamentalism is the worst form a religion can take. Christian fundamentalism along with Islamic fundamentalism lead the world in creating fear, ignorance and oppression. Christian fundamentalism, though not the only unfounded or "revealed" belief system, is certainly the most toxic one of significant influence in America at this point in history. I understand that Christianity in general is declining, but fundamentalism is growing.

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I have to say that if I had not been in a fundamentalist church, if I had been in a more liberal church that treated Genesis like mythology, I might never have realized it was all bogus. Fundamentalists have a clearer path to atheism, because there's more to shoot down.

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Eh, i want the 26 years of my life that i wasted in church back. I want all the hours and days and weeks spent worrying if i was truly saved back. I want all the time i wasted worrying about this and that person's soul back. I want all the time i lost dreading the fiery destruction of earth and the end of time back. Most of all i want my best friend back. All these and so much more were victims of fundie christianity.

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" While it's true that there are evil people out there (all the Benny Hinns etc), it's equally true that the people who listen to them bear the responsibility of failing to think. I used to feel really sorry for those people that are getting fleeced but I simply cannot look at them as poor simpletons who are incapable of thought and are therefore victims" slave2six

 

slave: I don't know what kind of Xtian background you came from, but I do know that many of the members

here were fundamentalist Xtians. I was inundated with fundamentalism from about age 13. I KNOW how

difficult it was for me to deconvert. It literally took many years and self study. I have read time and time again of former fundamentalists as members here describing the misery they went through both

while they were still Xtian and after they deconverted because of the brainwashing they were subjected to and the resulting guilt and fear they went through and are still going through upon having the courage to finally turn their back on this scourge.

 

Because of the above quoted portion of your OP I feel pretty sure that you never actually were a

fundamentalist, otherwise you would not be so unfairly critical of them. You are doing what we did as

Xtians: judging people you know nothing about. These folks got nothing out of their brainwashing except years of pretense, guilt and fear. And they were not simpletons for being deceived. They were "victims", regardless of whether that word is or is not politically correct nowadays. Maybe I just don't

understand what you were intending to say, but placing blame on the very victims of this cult is not

reasonable, at least to me. Nor is it fair. bill

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Eh, i want the 26 years of my life that i wasted in church back. I want all the hours and days and weeks spent worrying if i was truly saved back. I want all the time i wasted worrying about this and that person's soul back. I want all the time i lost dreading the fiery destruction of earth and the end of time back. Most of all i want my best friend back. All these and so much more were victims of fundie christianity.

I want them back too, and all the fear of being left behind being removed as well. That was the biggest thing that truly scared me. The Rapture. The idea of being left alone and face people that would want to hurt me? OMG I was such a nervous child

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" While it's true that there are evil people out there (all the Benny Hinns etc), it's equally true that the people who listen to them bear the responsibility of failing to think. I used to feel really sorry for those people that are getting fleeced but I simply cannot look at them as poor simpletons who are incapable of thought and are therefore victims" slave2six

 

slave: I don't know what kind of Xtian background you came from, but I do know that many of the members

here were fundamentalist Xtians. I was inundated with fundamentalism from about age 13. I KNOW how

difficult it was for me to deconvert. It literally took many years and self study. I have read time and time again of former fundamentalists as members here describing the misery they went through both

while they were still Xtian and after they deconverted because of the brainwashing they were subjected to and the resulting guilt and fear they went through and are still going through upon having the courage to finally turn their back on this scourge.

 

Because of the above quoted portion of your OP I feel pretty sure that you never actually were a

fundamentalist, otherwise you would not be so unfairly critical of them. You are doing what we did as

Xtians: judging people you know nothing about. These folks got nothing out of their brainwashing except years of pretense, guilt and fear. And they were not simpletons for being deceived. They were "victims", regardless of whether that word is or is not politically correct nowadays. Maybe I just don't

understand what you were intending to say, but placing blame on the very victims of this cult is not

reasonable, at least to me. Nor is it fair. bill

 

I was. But I would throw myself into the same category at that time. I had "doubts." In fact, the idiocy was plain to me. I was simply too weak and cowardly to do anything about it until the evidence became so overwhelming that I had no choice. 

 

I was a part of the problem the whole time I was there. I subjugated my thoughts and will to "prophets" and "god." Until I manned up, I was the reason that there were "prophets" and "god" ruling my life - and I was not helping anyone become stronger. I was perpetuating the fallacy. Hell! I was even involved in a mission to the Philippines in an attempt to convert Catholics into what I thought was true Christianity. 

 

I did not intend it as an indictment of anyone else here. You're here because you have decided to stop being a part of the problem.

 

And my deconversion was like going through detox. It was excruciating. I know what you mean. But I am certain that learning to walk was difficult, learning to ride a bike involved pain (I remember that) and learning how to love had it's bitter moments. My problem when I was a Christian was that I was unwilling to learn how to walk. I just wanted to be fed and have my diaper changed for me.

 

Personal responsibility didn't begin for me when I deconverted. It was mine all along. I just chose to cast it aside. Once I took hold of it, everything changed.

 

Still, I stand by my statement. Without willing victims, none of those clowns could possibly succeed. And everyone has doubts and reasons to challenge their faith. Doubts are a natural result of reason. It's when we subjugate our reason that we contribute to the problem.

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F.U.N.D.Y

 

A

 

Fucked up

 

Universal

 

Nutcase

 

Demented by

 

Yeshua

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I am sure you are right, slave2six, they aren't worth renting space in my head, but it keeps me here.

 

The fact that there are lazy non-thinkers - I don't excuse them either but I also see how they were crippled in some cases from early childhood.

 

I hope that this isn't all that keeps you here! I've met some amazing folks here, I've learned an awful lot, and occasionally I've been able to help someone else. I hope you stick around for those reasons. I think you have a lot to contribute.

 

 

I just said it keeps me here. It is one thing, but it isn't the only thing.  Many times i have thought that I am over this stuff, and I could just move on. Then out of the blue, it gets triggered. I do wonder sometimes if it would be best if I left for awhile. I don't know. The only people that would even remotely relate to the struggle I have been through are other ex-Christians.

 

The effects of early indoctrination of a child are really insidious.  It is not always a case of lazy non-thinking. It is a fact that if you are surrounded only by family and many people who ARE lazy non-thinkers you think you should be that way too. You are not aware that there is any other right way of thinking (or non-thinking). Naturally, there comes a time in adulthood when one ought to be able to put crazy ideas away, but it doesn't always happen, no matter how much you "man-up".

 

The terrible thing about it is that it ruins anything positive that is in any religion. It is almost impossible not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater." Once you see through it, you can no longer conform even if you want to.  Now, I realize that is a strange statement to many here-- why would you want to conform? What I mean is one lacks the capability to enter into some different religious practice that might be good.  Something that might give life meaning.  Something that might improve or change your life for the better.  If you can't relate, that's OK. I totally understand.

 

idon'tevenknow - If you genuinely don't know what Christian fundamentalism is, I  envy your ignorance.   The Baptist Church type of fundamentalism is what I have personal experience with, but I am sure it is in other denominations - Presbyterian, Charismatic type churches like the Church of God, Church of Christ, Roman Catholic a la Mel Gibson, etc.. Please do some research.

 

What they all have in common is that they have the Truth and no one else does.  Also, they have some twisted-ass interpretations of scripture. A lot of them emphasize the rapture and Armageddon.  These are folks that would like the world to end as soon as possible, because its evil.  Personally, I have never been able to completely dismiss this idea of the world as evil, because I believed it with every fiber of my being.  Even if the existence of BibleGod is thrown out, that doesn't mean a person has eradicated fundamentalist thinking from their mind. Far from it. There are many ideas that just continue.

 

The so-called "Plan of salvation". What a pile of crap. Salvation into lifelong mental bondage.

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Yeah christianity has fucked up every other god for me, and that's just fine.

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Eh, i want the 26 years of my life that i wasted in church back. I want all the hours and days and weeks spent worrying if i was truly saved back. I want all the time i wasted worrying about this and that person's soul back. I want all the time i lost dreading the fiery destruction of earth and the end of time back. Most of all i want my best friend back. All these and so much more were victims of fundie christianity.

I want them back too, and all the fear of being left behind being removed as well. That was the biggest thing that truly scared me. The Rapture. The idea of being left alone and face people that would want to hurt me? OMG I was such a nervous child

 

 

I attribute much of the worry, fear and nervousness I have today to this kind of thinking when I was 12 or 13.  The rapture was going to happen any day.  I always felt that I would be left behind too, because I might not really be saved. My parents would be gone and I would be completely alone.

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Untitled Rapture

 

Our human race will be gone one day

 

Maybe because of war

 

Maybe because of forces far beyond this blue ball

 

Maybe we will find another planet to all live on

 

But if we all hang around for the day of rapture to come along

 

Then we may as well kiss everything goodbye now

 

Because we would have all given up far before we begun.

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Eh, i want the 26 years of my life that i wasted in church back. I want all the hours and days and weeks spent worrying if i was truly saved back. I want all the time i wasted worrying about this and that person's soul back. I want all the time i lost dreading the fiery destruction of earth and the end of time back. Most of all i want my best friend back. All these and so much more were victims of fundie christianity.

I want them back too, and all the fear of being left behind being removed as well. That was the biggest thing that truly scared me. The Rapture. The idea of being left alone and face people that would want to hurt me? OMG I was such a nervous child

 

 

I attribute much of the worry, fear and nervousness I have today to this kind of thinking when I was 12 or 13.  The rapture was going to happen any day.  I always felt that I would be left behind too, because I might not really be saved. My parents would be gone and I would be completely alone.

 

<3 

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Hi!

 

I didn't grow up in a Fundamentalist home or anything, and I'm not quite sure what Fundamentalism is to be honest. I read up on it, and I know it exists in other religions, but could someone give me a few Christian denominations that belong to fundamentalist beliefs?

 

 

In a nut shell fundamentalism is taking everything written in the bible as literally as possible. The bible often becomes an object of worship because it is acknowledged to be a divine instruction manual given to mankind personally by God. Therefore, every word in the bible must be interpreted literally because those words are interpreted as direct commands from God. Failure to literally comply with every word in the bible literally will condemn the offender to eternal damnation. Just about every aspect of religion becomes a salvation issue. Failure to worship God "correctly" will result in eternal damnation.

 

If the sinner repents God, by grace, will grant forgiveness but it is usually assumed the sinner will not continue to repeat that same sin over and over and if they do then their repentance is assumed to not have been genuine.

 

In essence fundamentalism is legalism taken to the extreme.

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