Needing People To Relate To.

[Guest Bambi]

Hi, so... after stalking the forums for a couple of days I decided to post. I'm going through a lot of emotional struggles well actually severe depression, coming to the conclusion that there is absolutely nobody who can relate to me. First of all I am not atheist due to spiritual experiences I have had. so that's out the window. I had been a Christian since I was a teenager (26 now) and spent a lot of time reading others experiences, After becoming homeless in 2011 I started one of two things my photography and attending church. One of them is now adding to mental health issues I already had.

 

I attend college for my photography and I can't even think about my assignments the fear of eternal hell is constantly plaguing me. Not just for me but for others, I cannot enjoy life as I did. I walk down the street dividing those I wonder will go to hell or heaven. I feel I cannot love God if he does this, and everything my Christian friends say "why do you put other peoples decisions on yourself?" I don't! I just care about them! More than you apparently. I don't think about anything anymore. Going out with my friends, hiking, eating... I've lost weight through the stress. The amount of visions and testimonies I've heard. I can't get around it. There is so much in my head. I can't even get out of bed, I think I should just send myself to hell now. The question that gets to me the most.... The people in my Church How do they do it?

 

Thanks for listening Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum.

Xx

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Bambi, I feel horrible that you are suffering so much torment and tribulation.  It sounds to me as though you are experiencing what is known as cognitive dissonance.  Your brain is attempting to reconcile beliefs which conflict with one another.  "God loves you, but you are not good enough for him, so, even though he died to forgive you of your sins, you are still going to hell."  I would imagine that these thoughts were common amongst those of us who eventually freed ourselves from religion.  I won't speak for anyone else, but I know I went through periods like this.  Once it got to the point that I realized I was losing my mind.  I literally knew that I was going insane and there was nothing I could do about it.  It was a very dark time; and the only thing that eventually set me free from such episodes was to accept the fact that there were too many contradictions in the bible's presentation of god for me to believe in him anymore.

 

Welcome to the forums and please let us help you work through this.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Welcome to Ex-C, glad you are here.

 

I have had severe depression and Christianity made it worse, so I can really relate.  I wanted to end my life.  Do you have a therapist, or have you seen a doctor about it?

 

There are lots of people here with different beliefs, doubters, deists, agnostics, pantheists, buddhists, hindus, skeptics, and atheists.  You don't have to have a label.  It just helps to know roughly where you are at, if you feel like sharing.  

 

Please let us know how we can help you.  Thinking of you.

[RipVanWinkle]

Hi Bambi. Sorry you are suffering so much. Xtianity  can really do a number on you. If you stick with us you can get to know people you really can relate to . And you can get some really could advice from smart people who have "been there". I think a secular therapist is an excellent idea. But don't go to  a Xtian therapist because you're likely to get feed the same junk you've been feed for years.

 

Don't despair. There are many people who have suffered through what you are going through who are living mentally healthy lives. Garbage that has been feed into your brain for many years doesn't to go away overnight. 

 

I'll tell you what many folks here (including me) have done to get through this period of de-converting. Educate yourself on Biblical history by scholars, not evangelists. Read scholars' work on how the bible was created, christian history, The many inconsistencies of the bible, and related literature. In other words reprogram your brain, It'll take time but it can be done if you stick with it. It is interesting reading, too. You reprogram your brain not by memorization, but by learning an objective view of Xtianity and what it means. And by the use of reasoning.  Xtianity does not want you to think; they want you to learn only their way and believe it is the only way. Not only is it not the only way, but it is not true. Good luck and keep coming here.  bill

[Ousian]

Welcome, Bambi, and I am genuinely sorry for your struggles.  As a recently deconverted atheist, I can definitely relate to the psychological scars xtianity can inflict on a person.  These wounds take a long time to heal.  

 

It seems to me that you are in that very delicate part of the transition from faith to skepticism where you are doubting what you believe, but still hold to your beliefs due to bias.  The advice I would give you is to educate yourself as much as possible on the subject of your particular religion.  Here's a couple links to some good books on the subject:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Atheism-George-H-Smith/dp/1573922684/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400465338&sr=8-1&keywords=why+atheism

http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-A-Very-Short-Introduction/dp/0192804243/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400465382&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=very+brief+guide+to+atheism

http://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400465403&sr=8-1&keywords=nailed+david+fitzgerald

 

I'd also highly suggest you look up Dan Barker.  He was an evangelical pastor who deconverted to an atheist.  His debates/talks on youtube are very informative.  A few other good atheist youtube channels:

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector

https://www.youtube.com/user/DarkMatter2525

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ-vHE5CrGaL_ITEg-n3OeA

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH_zYYXkJpULueOVZTkY4Bw

 

If you have time for it, this deconversion story on youtube is pretty powerful and informative:

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Bambi, and welcome to ExC.

 

I am so sorry that the thoughts of hell are so terrible for you.

 

There is no hell, Bambi. It is a terrible lie imposed on us all by Christianity. This may be difficult for you to accept now. But think of something. What kind of God would put his creation through the turmoils of this life only to sentence anyone to an eternity to suffering in hell? You are not going to hell and the people you see walking down the street are not either.

 

I am glad you are here on ExC.

[francesco]

Hi Bambi, welcome to ex-c

I wonder if it's possible for you to stop attending church for a while

so you are not constantly reminded about heaven and hell maybe you can feel better that way

[Adam5]

The question that gets to me the most.... The people in my Church How do they do it?

 

Good morning and welcome to the forum.  The reason why the people in your church can do it is because there is a large spectrum of belief and disbelief, so that the people in the pews believe in different things, and each have different points of view and experience.  There are a large proportion of people who attend church who cherry pick the things they believe in.   They dont have the fear of eternal hell as they dont believe in it.  Good luck with your journey.  There is no hell.  Except the hell we make for ourselves, and its up to us to work our way out of it, hence the good work of this site  take care

[wanderinstar]

HI Bambi! So sorry to hear of your very real struggles. Having mental health issues along with deconverting is very tough, and I know because I went through it. although all peoples experiences are somewhat different. When I was decoverting I was dealing with PTSD, Bipolar and a marriage break-up and to be honest the deconversion was as difficult as my other struggles. I am also in college studying photography and have had unexplained 'spiritual' experiences so it sounds like we have a lot in common. Now two years on I am beginning to feel much better, although I am still in treatment for the Bipolar. I consider myself a 'spiritual' athiest, perhaps close to Pantheism. Reading up on christianity from all perspectives certainly forced me to see that it is not true, it cannot be true. The experiences you have do not have to fit into a christian world view, there are many ways to look at things. I really hope you find all the support you need. Keep posting if it helps. We are here for you.  

[Woodsy]

Welcome, Bambi!  You have come to the right place.  The people here are genuinely compassionate and full of wisdom. They will help you as they helped me through the deconversion process.  Keep reading, keep researching, keep asking questions.  That's what I'm doing.  And stay here with us and post whatever you like.  Someone can relate and help you.  I wish you peace.  

[Guest ninurta]

Welcome aboard!

[Guest Bambi]

Thanks everyone,

 

Where I'm at? I don't know. I get confused when they sing songs about a loving God. When one of the "more normal" ones at my church told her own father (who is an atheist, when he asked if he was going to hell) she told me she said yes.I was even told I "think too much". This is the story of life, are we not meant to think too much about it?

 

I suffer with chronic anxiety, ocd, paranoia and depression. In 2009 I had a breakdown centering around religion and was put on 500mg of seroquel a night. Along with other medications.

 

I have nobody who can relate. My dad is a huge atheist, he is highly intelligent and always reading and debating Christians. I know that may be a dream for many here, but for me its hard, because he literally compares a notion of a God to believing in fairies at the bottom of the garden. The thing is there is so much unexplained phenomenon in the world, and he doesn't acknowledge any of it. I never bring it up, I believe everybody's beliefs are their own and for a reason.

 

I'm on hardly any tablets now, I was recovering well until all this came back, I feel sick all the time and spending a lot of time online like I used to when I was ill. All the stories of visions my pastor has seen, people they have brought in, what they have heard, this doesn't seem to happen to other religions. And the talk of demons and deception and hold every thought captive. Yoga is bad, because clearing your mind allows potential demons in, my pastor told me in karate and the like, that is how they break the bricks because that strength comes from another power, I'm sorry if this is a trigger for some and I sound absolutely crazy, but all this paranoia is going around in my head, please help

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I'm on hardly any tablets now, I was recovering well until all this came back, I feel sick all the time and spending a lot of time online like I used to when I was ill. All the stories of visions my pastor has seen, people they have brought in, what they have heard, this doesn't seem to happen to other religions. And the talk of demons and deception and hold every thought captive. Yoga is bad, because clearing your mind allows potential demons in, my pastor told me in karate and the like, that is how they break the bricks because that strength comes from another power, I'm sorry if this is a trigger for some and I sound absolutely crazy, but all this paranoia is going around in my head, please help

 My pastor, and others in and around the church, also used to tell stories about strange phenomena.  The thing was, they always heard it from somebody, who heard it from somebody, who heard it from somebody, whose cousin was there and saw it happen.  Such information is hardly reliable.  I also knew people who just blatantly made up stories about strange things (miracles) happening.  And strange phenomena certainly do happen in other religions.  That's one of the reasons people in other religions believe in those religions; just as it is a reasons christians believe their religion to be true.

 

As far as yoga and karate, I heard the same things growing up.  My mother refused to let me take karate because she said it was all about mind control and weird Eastern beliefs.  That is a blatant lie.  I know this because my son takes karate and I stay in the dojo during his lessons.  He's no more demon possessed than a golf ball.  As a matter of fact, people study karate first and foremost to be a better person, and the first rule is respect for others.

 

Incidentally, I wouldn't say you think too much; you're just thinking things that christians don't want you thinking.

[Guest Bambi]

Actually I always have been a very deep thinker, I've an interest for psychology, which is why my brain is going through so much trying to figure out how they can love a God like this? Then I feel bad for questioning. I don't know what I feel anymore. I wish I could be a kid again, unaware of all the corruption in the world. I just feel that everyday is one closer to my eternal torment and then I freak out all over again. I think of all the testimonies of people. Who have found Jesus, and when people talk about the Holy Spirit. They say when you receive it "you'll just know". What does this mean? How are they so secure that they are right? They all believe the same thing for certainty and it freaks me out. I will admit I can't handle it. I am into conspiraces as well, and a lot of those appear to be true, so why not this. I can't believe this is the good guy. I asked my friend how she can worship a being that puts her friends and family in hell forever and she told me in Heaven, we won't be aware of it. What?? How f*coming selfish, and they are so damn calm about it. I cannot be an sthesist because I have seen too much. I don't know what I expect you guys to do, have any of you gone through this kind of belief/life crisis? Xx Bambi

[dutchie]

Hi Bambi, 

 

I´m so sorry what you are going through. A big e-hug from here! As you can see here there is a community where many person had related experiences, and we care about the people who suffers because of belief. 

 

I think it is important to see the difference between being spiritual, and following a religion, with a lot negative consequences (like hell).

 

Even if you didn´t want to question if there is a God, you can question the credibility of Christianity. Maybe it helps to see Christianity in context with other myths before it emerged. There are a lot of themes that 

are in Christianity, which originated from older myths, like: 

 

Adam and eve in the paradise 

The flood 

A person dying, and resurrecting 

etc.. 

 

There is a lot of information on the topic of psychology and religion. A easy to follow youtube version is from Valerie Tarico:

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/TrustingDoubt

 

What I remember when I was very down a few years ago (maybe they would have said mildly depressed, I have not been diagnosed) My thinking was very impaired. 

So in your situation i think it would be hard to get out of the teachings that are learned in Christianity. 

 

Could it be that with dealing with your depression (secular therapy, medication if needed) that your perspective on Christianity and belief will be clearer? 

 

Ps, yes I never understood how christians friends could put aside with such ease the questions that could people were going to hell.. now the idea just seems ridiculous

[Ousian]

Actually I always have been a very deep thinker, I've an interest for psychology, which is why my brain is going through so much trying to figure out how they can love a God like this? 

 

Ask a Christian to define "God."  They will do any one of three things.  First, they will define was God is not, immaterial, invisible, etc.  Second, they will define how God behaves, his attributes and how he acts.  Third, they will compare God to mankind, anthropomorphizing him.  None of these things are really definitions of what "God," he is Sui Generis, his own category.  There are no objective definitions of God, each Christian has their own personal idea of what God is.  From the way you write about God, it appears as if you have this idea of one single entity, when in fact nobody has any real, concrete idea of "God" even is.

 

 

Then I feel bad for questioning.

This is one of the many reasons why religion is so popular.  Doubting your faith is considered a sin and a sign of weakness.  It's not.  True faith should be founded on reason, not blindly following what somebody else tells you.  Doubt everything.  

 

 

 They all believe the same thing for certainty and it freaks me out.

No.  No they don't.  Go around and talk to Christians and examine what they actually believe.  They will disagree with each other.  There are over 40,000 denominations just within Christianity.  People disagree with each other on every verse in the Bible.  Furthermore, these people are talking about concepts for which they have no ability to comprehend.  God, heaven, hell.  These ideas are abstract philosophical entities all outside reality.  They don't know what they are talking about, and they most certainly do not believe the same thing.

[Orbit]

It may be helpful to you to study the history of the Sumerians, Babylonians, and their mythology. It will become clear to you that the Bible is derived from those mythologies and there is no hell. There is no mention of hell in the Old Testament at all--nowhere. It's an invention by later theologians to scare people into joining their cult. Information is power.

[directionless]

Thanks everyone,

 

Where I'm at? I don't know. I get confused when they sing songs about a loving God. When one of the "more normal" ones at my church told her own father (who is an atheist, when he asked if he was going to hell) she told me she said yes.I was even told I "think too much". This is the story of life, are we not meant to think too much about it?

 

I suffer with chronic anxiety, ocd, paranoia and depression. In 2009 I had a breakdown centering around religion and was put on 500mg of seroquel a night. Along with other medications.

 

I have nobody who can relate. My dad is a huge atheist, he is highly intelligent and always reading and debating Christians. I know that may be a dream for many here, but for me its hard, because he literally compares a notion of a God to believing in fairies at the bottom of the garden. The thing is there is so much unexplained phenomenon in the world, and he doesn't acknowledge any of it. I never bring it up, I believe everybody's beliefs are their own and for a reason.

 

I'm on hardly any tablets now, I was recovering well until all this came back, I feel sick all the time and spending a lot of time online like I used to when I was ill. All the stories of visions my pastor has seen, people they have brought in, what they have heard, this doesn't seem to happen to other religions. And the talk of demons and deception and hold every thought captive. Yoga is bad, because clearing your mind allows potential demons in, my pastor told me in karate and the like, that is how they break the bricks because that strength comes from another power, I'm sorry if this is a trigger for some and I sound absolutely crazy, but all this paranoia is going around in my head, please help

Hi, Bambi. Do you have a psychiatrist that can check to see if you need to adjust the medication? Sometimes colleges have a psychiatrist, although I imagine you should see the psychiatrist that knows your history. The way you describe your situation makes me think it might a problem with the medication.

[Guest Bambi]

I've had many, the one I have now has pushed my appointment back, I haven't seen her in months and months anyway. She is an atheist as far as I'm aware, there is NO way I would see a Christian doctor in this state. Although I don't judge anyone for their beliefs. It would not be wise.

 

A friend of mine on Fb just posted a link to her blog (she's from my church) she revealed that she suffers from bipolar and depression, and how the scripture tells us we should be joyful and celebrate all the trials God brings to us. Obviously it was strung out and put in a different way. She said she battled with emotions because she thought things would be easier, because she had God. This is what irks me, why do Christians seem selfish to me? When I go through depression or fall sick, I don't think why is God so heartless? Its what he does to everybody else that makes me think that.

 

She also talked about how we all need a saviour, which is a huge trigger for me. Its almost like when I start to feel like maybe its not like ke this, there's a preacher on the street handing out leaflets with a not so nice quote from the bible.

[Ellinas]

Bambi,

My immediate concern for you is, as has been suggested above, that you need further professional help - what you describe is like a psychological torture; even accepting that mental illness is not necessarily the root of every problem you face, it clearly is a major issue.

Beyond that:

1. You reject atheism?  Fine.  No-one says you should do otherwise.  You have to find the outlook with which you are comfortable.  Let no-one, Christian, atheist or of any other viewpoint, tell you what to believe.
2. You fear hell?  Bottom line, the only basis you have to fear it is Christianity itself.  I realize it's not so simple as to say "if you reject belief in the one you reject belief in the other as well".  Doubts remain.  They did for me.  But ultimately the logic of the situation - that Christianity is an unjust religion and hell is its' stick with which to beat those who dare to question - will win if you remind yourself of it when the doubts arise.
3. Strange happenings?  Every religion has them - Christianity just claims (on no logical basis) that only that which supports it is valid and not "demonic".  I don't know what experiences you have had, and I would not seek to claim that you should discount them.  But, in the end, it's worth remembering that Christianity is not the only interpretation for such things.
4. The Christians confuse you with their enthusiasm?  They confuse a good many of us.  The problem with communal worship is that it creates a sort of reinforcement of the emotions and reactions that are "expected" - another version of the herd mentality.  Don't worry about their state of mind.  Your concern is your own.

Above all, think for yourself, and come back here with any questions and problems.  I doubt if you'll come up with anything that won't resonate with the experience of someone here, who will be able to offer some advice or encouragement as a result.

 

All the best.

[RipVanWinkle]

".I was even told I "think too much".bambi

 

That tells you something, doesn't it? Don't think too much? If god gave us a brain with the ability to think on a high level, was he trying to trap us? He gave us the ability to do precisely what he doesn't want us to do? Mankind has survived precisely because of our superior brains. Xtian apologists know that if they repeat an idea, however false, long enough people will believe it. That is one of their major strategies and has been for thousands of years. That strategy is used by all religions all over the world.  It works. That's why reading secular history about the bible and Xtian history is so helpful to folks deconverting.  bill

[bfuddled]

Welcome Bambi.

 

I wanted to echo the suggestion that you look getting some help with medication adjustment and/or some thought patterns that you are struggling with. I struggle with mental health issues myself, and I know how just a minor adjustment to the dosage(s) or missing a dose can send you spinning off into some dark places. If some of your emotional pain/turmoil is physiologically based it's probably best to look at that first before you try to tackle some of the other things.

[DoubtingNate]

Hi Bambi..

 

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already, but just wanted to say hi.  This is a good place for conversation, healing, decompressing, venting, and general support.  I hope you can find the help you need.  You don't have to commit to any belief system and it will probably change several times before you settle on anything.  Fear of hell is very real and I am still not completely free of it.  My brain knows that hell can't be real, but I'm still haunted by thoughts of eternal torment, so I can relate and empathize completely.  Depression and anxiety can be hell enough to deal with already!  Researching about science, theology (from a skeptical viewpoint) and online and talking to people here helps about as much as anything.

 

There's no such thing as thinking too much!  The quality of your thoughts is another concern and I hope you can find someone, ie a trained professional, to talk to in person as well as here. 

 

ETA: I'll also vouch for Evid3nc3's series on non-belief.  It is an incredible presentation and among the best I've seen.  As good or better than most material that you would pay for.

[rach]

Intense fear of hell is what led to me completely breaking apart psychologically and insanity.  I COULD NOT live with it, I could not get it out of my head, I could not imagine how other people were going on with their lives.  There'd be a stove on, and I'd put my hand in there, to see how long I could bear the heat, or a boiling pot, and I'd imagine someone holding my hand into it, or there'd be a bonfire, well, you get the idea.  All I had was panic.  I'd close my eyes to sleep and dream of people burning.  Dream of myself writhing, burning, for not being able to overcome enough of my "sins." 

 

You ask how do Christians live this way.  And I'll tell you the dirty little secret.  They don't TRUELY believe in it.  Oh they preach about it, they scream about it, they'll warn you with red faces and pleading eyes about it.  But they don't ACTUALLY believe it.  Someone who really, really believes it is going to be behaving with trauma.  Like me, like you.  Yes, like Andrea Yates, who REALLY believed and drowned her kids to try to save them from any risk of going to hell.  I always say this, because it's true, anyone who REALLY believes in hell is not going to be having kids, and if they had them, they'd kill them like Andrea did rather than take a risk of ETERNAL FIRE.  If you have ever heard the horror of the people's voices on 9/11, calling 911 reporting they're burning.  That was a few minutes!  And after a few minutes of that kind of heat people are throwing themselves out of a building, because it is unbearable.  And yet Christians go about their lives without panic in face of a potential eternal 9/11 for themselves and everybody they love.  So no, Christians don't really believe in this hell shit.  If they did, they'd all be in straightjackets, because true belief in this leads only to insanity. 

 

At our church people would say (with no emotions, not even a tear in their eye) that if their child didn't convert, and was sent to hell, it was ok.  They'd say it was their child's choice, and that God's ways are perfect, and that in heaven God will wipe all tears from our eyes whilst burning the flesh off our loved ones.  Plus, double bonus, we get amnesia so we forget our burning loved ones.  Now if there was a real fire going, and someone was threatening to throw their kids into it, the parents would be frantic.  They would do or say anything to keep the kids out of it.  But there was no frantic when it came to the ETERNAL fire.  Because they don't actually believe it exists, and if they do, they are convinced no one they love is going there and don't give a damn about the rest of the people. 

 

After many years I let go my fear of hell the more I found out how diabolical Bible-God and his followers have been.  I do, however, retain an intense fear of going to their heaven. 

 

What Christians really fear, is annihilation.  The absence of eternal life. 

[Guest Bambi]

Rach, thank you so much, this is exactly the kind of things I think about. I read Andrea's story and felt so emotional reading it. I wonder if that's true about Christians not really believing it. It seems like they do. I'm kind of confused what to do next. I've always been a spiritual person, and I would swap no life after death if I could, if it meant the people who "fall short" don't have to suffer, but I don't feel like a Christian would. They would rather have eternal bliss. Another person I know put on his fb a video, why you may not be getting a response from the holy spirit. I get very annoyed by Christians often, I shouldn't. I was at a church fair last year, and was looking at the homemade candle holders, and a woman I've met before started talking to me, and asked me which one I liked and bought me one, I do the same thing for people, but when she gave it to me, she said "everytime you light the candle, think of Gods love and joy". Or something like that. Why couldn't she have just bought me the candle? I felt like she was selling it. I did feel hurt because when I buy people things its not a waste of my money, I don't have to get anything out of it. Maybe I'm looking into it too deeply.