Ranger26 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 ...it is a horrible belief system if you trully think about it. Christians overlook that fact every day. Can you? Can you NOT think? No Florduh, i can't...i like the endorphins and the "feeling" of God in my life. it feels so real, so powerful, etc. But if I think about the doctrine, its a mess and i hate it. I can separate the two for a bit, like having to separate filling systems in my head, but when they intersect, i can't wait to escape the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger26 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 I wish you the best man. And stop it, for me at least you're welcome at any time here in ex-c. Hell this place was created for us deconverts (thanks mod team!). When I was deconverting I had the nagging draws to come back to the fold as well. "Just be with jesus, ever loving jesus." I honestly started refuting that feeling with the bible. I'm a descendant of African slaves. You know those verses that say "I and my father are one?" I read and memorized Lev. 25, the main slavery chapter. It clearly documented that non-hebrews were property, lifetime property. Hebrew slaves were 'servants' who were to be let go at Jubilee, and were not to be treated harshly. If jesus and his dad are one, he must've taken part in this order for the Israelites. That voice in my head had no answers when I asked it point blank why the different treatment between hebrews and non-hebrews. No answer at all. That damned christianity for me. thanks for your response Roz, and everyone else. you guys are the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger26 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'm with florduh on this. If christianity makes sense to you, then be a christian (like MyMistake describes). However, I'm inclined to think that your constant vacillation is suggestive of christianity not making any sense to you; and, as did florduh, I'd point you in the direction of your indoctrination as the culprit. It doesn't make sense on a grand scheme of things. I also hate the fact that we need to be saved. When Christians thank God for saving them or their family members I cringe. Its like thanking a murderer and a terrorist for releasing one of the hostages but killing everyone else. Plus, when people say God loves you and has big plans for you, etc, etc. I just think about my life. I was an A-student, athlete of the year, captain of several teams in highschool, a popular guy, happy, but once I became a Christian my anxiety and OCD increased by so much that i lost control over it. I dropped out of university, i work a dead-end job, i can't study or finish anything, i am on medication, and i have never been healed of numerous physical ailments that are preventing me from being a normal 20 something, play sports with my buddies, be active, etc. so mental disorders and physical problems, living with my parents in a lot of debt, at 27 years of age, no girlfriend = because i have no money, and I will probably be dropping out of the courses i am taking now because i can't focus...I don't see God's plan in this... My whole Christian life I prayed for him to use me, make me a great man, be a police officer or a firefighter and help/save people, maybe fight human trafficing through RCMP organized crime division (canadian version of the FBI of sort). He used me for nothing...all the friends i led to Christ left the church, i left the church, and i have little hope for the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger26 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Ranger, If there was absolutely no mention of hell in the bible, would you still be a christian? Is this about the fear of hell as it is for a lot of us? What makes you feel 'good' about being a christian? *hug* I honestly think i still would be a Christian. Hell was the reason why i deconverted in the first place, and what makes me question the whole thing even now. I would not even begin my questioning if it wasn't for that. What makes me feel good. I guess i have a need for certainty and inner-desire to please a God i grew up believing my whole life (without even being religious). I can relate to religious people, i do think they generally lead 'cleaner' and purer lives (of course there are those who don't), but i like the environment where people don't swear all the time, its not all about drinking or smoking, etc etc. I know there are other groups of people that aren't Christian and that are like that, but i guess its easier to find those in the church than on a street. I like the idea of the community and being on a true path, being guided by a God and being in his plan (even though i don't see his hand or help in my life) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 11, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2014 I was an A-student, athlete of the year, captain of several teams in highschool, a popular guy, happy, but once I became a Christian my anxiety and OCD increased by so much that i lost control over it. I dropped out of university, i work a dead-end job, i can't study or finish anything, i am on medication, and i have never been healed of numerous physical ailments that are preventing me from being a normal 20 something, play sports with my buddies, be active, etc. so mental disorders and physical problems, living with my parents in a lot of debt, at 27 years of age, no girlfriend = because i have no money, and I will probably be dropping out of the courses i am taking now because i can't focus...I don't see God's plan in this... You keep answering your own questions. You already know the answers, so get some professional help that will enable you to embrace those answers and fight the brainwashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I second the ideas of taking it easy and reading up on neuroscience. Uncertainty is a healthy thing. It's perfectly fine to be able to say "I don't really know," or "I'm not sure." All that this means is that you don't have enough information yet to make up your mind. Maybe the information isn't out there yet, but maybe it is. In the case of why you feel the way you do with regards to religion, the information does exist. Learning more about human evolution, our adaptations for group cohesion and the way we like to think about the world can be very useful for you. We're hard-wired to attribute conscious intent, even where this isn't possible. Our brain chemistry tries to get us high on group participation. So much of what we do is based on this, that it can be hard to see. It's why people go to concerts, school pep rallies, public events, and even religious services. It's why these things feel good. Combine both tendencies, to see human-like consciousness where there is none, and to feel good when you participate in a group, and you get religion. Literally. You might be able to answer some of your own questions, if you ask yourself what, exactly, would be bad about being a non-Christian? Is it because it is logically incorrect, or because you would feel bad, or socially isolated? Some of the other stuff you can test yourself. If it weren't possible to get the same warm fuzzies you feel as a Christian by behaving in a group and interacting socially with things that may or may not exist... other religions wouldn't be possible. Yet, they are, and every bit as successful as Christianity. I also tested the consciousness attribution thing by praying to a tree for a couple of weeks. Try it, I think you'll find it works just the same. Remember Wilson from the movie Cast Away? A lot of people get very attached to stuffed animals, or fictional characters. It's just something we all can do. Strike up a relationship with a rock: it's definitely possible. In this sense, the lame tagline "it's not a religion, it's a relationship" is perfectly accurate. You have all the time you need, and you can make your mind up any way you want. But, I think you need to decide whether you want to believe something because it's true, or because it makes you feel good. If it's the latter, you can get those same feelings somewhere else, actually, if Christianity is intolerable to you. Join clubs, go to concerts, talk to your car. Find something to engage in socially. Isolation can be overcome, if that's what you're afraid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I just want to say… being in that middle place is really uncomfortable. I've been there.. I feel for you. Stay true to yourself, get help when you need it… trust YOURSELF. You are welcome here, and there is no pressure to be anything, or anywhere but where you are and who you are in the moment. For me, it wasn't really a choice… but a process. Life is a journey, not a destination… a cliché I know, but I've found it to be true. Hugs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted June 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2014 Ranger, If there was absolutely no mention of hell in the bible, would you still be a christian? Is this about the fear of hell as it is for a lot of us? What makes you feel 'good' about being a christian? *hug* I honestly think i still would be a Christian. Hell was the reason why i deconverted in the first place, and what makes me question the whole thing even now. I would not even begin my questioning if it wasn't for that. What makes me feel good. I guess i have a need for certainty and inner-desire to please a God i grew up believing my whole life (without even being religious). I can relate to religious people, i do think they generally lead 'cleaner' and purer lives (of course there are those who don't), but i like the environment where people don't swear all the time, its not all about drinking or smoking, etc etc. I know there are other groups of people that aren't Christian and that are like that, but i guess its easier to find those in the church than on a street. I like the idea of the community and being on a true path, being guided by a God and being in his plan (even though i don't see his hand or help in my life) Ranger, I truly understand how you feel. Oh how i miss the days of believing in god. My heart will break over this forever. I want so much for there to be a god (not the christian god). But it won't happen for me. There is far too much suffering on this earth for me to believe. I wish you peace on your journey, my friend. *hug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNo Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Honestly, you have to do what you have to do. I hope that your beliefs don't cause you to encroach on the rights of others. But your dilemma just reminded me of one of my favorite scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Hv1ewoalc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Don't worry about choosing black or choosing white. Life is gray. If some parts of Christianity feel good enjoy them. Ignore the parts that feel bad. Being extreme black or extreme white is hard on your brain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Maybe remember why you left. Are those reasons still valid? After a lifetime of conditioning, "God" is indeed in your brain, but as a result of your efforts, not God's. I have similar issues. God is a mental construct in my brain that provides peace. But I know now that this is not a relationship with God, it is a years-long relationship with myself, with my own perceptions, with my own brain chemistry. It feels real because I myself have etched those neural pathways, because I know how to trigger the endorphins. There is no external God involved. Reading about brain science might help. Actually the truth is that I know how to trigger those endorphins, but the reality of the Christian doctrine sets in and I can't stand thinking about, and so I go back to "unbelief" or to this web-site. It feels great, comfortable, euphoric thinking that you are in a presence of God, that you are on a certain path of truth, and so my mind just dismisses all the logic, because like most things in life we can prove or disprove anything, depending on what side we want to choose. So i start thinking that maybe i am just being rebelious. So its back and forth, back and forth. Have you explored ways to trigger the happy feelings outside of the context of Christianity? For me, the final straw with calling myself christian was when I realized that I could summon the feeling of god's presence at will; it had never been god then, it had been me the whole time. For a while, I did loose a lot of the fun emotional/mystical experiences that I associated with the religion. But then I started doing some Buddhist meditations, and though I've never gotten quite the same rush from that, it can trigger some similar feelings. Or having a quiet talk with your Higher Self - it's nice to be able to feel love and peace without having to loose awareness that it's coming from inside you. Or going through the ADF (druids) mediation on the Two Powers to make you feel more energetic and connected with the rest of the universe. I've found those sorts of things useful for... accessing bits of me that I enjoy experiencing and didn't know how to get to outside of christianity. I also like the meditation approach to it because it's something I can control, can explore which triggers work best for me, and not just pray to some outside entity hoping I'll maybe feel something this time. And I still get the helpful advice from my own brain that I used to attribute to god, when I take some time out from my busy life to stop and listen. Sometimes you really need to tell yourself things that you'd rather not face, so it can be a struggle to let go enough for that to happen, but I usually end up feeling better after working through things and being honest with myself. Or just take up some exercise like jogging. Some people seem to do a great job with using that time for stress relief and thinking through things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 11, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'm with florduh on this. If christianity makes sense to you, then be a christian (like MyMistake describes). However, I'm inclined to think that your constant vacillation is suggestive of christianity not making any sense to you; and, as did florduh, I'd point you in the direction of your indoctrination as the culprit. It doesn't make sense on a grand scheme of things. I also hate the fact that we need to be saved. When Christians thank God for saving them or their family members I cringe. Its like thanking a murderer and a terrorist for releasing one of the hostages but killing everyone else. Plus, when people say God loves you and has big plans for you, etc, etc. I just think about my life. I was an A-student, athlete of the year, captain of several teams in highschool, a popular guy, happy, but once I became a Christian my anxiety and OCD increased by so much that i lost control over it. I dropped out of university, i work a dead-end job, i can't study or finish anything, i am on medication, and i have never been healed of numerous physical ailments that are preventing me from being a normal 20 something, play sports with my buddies, be active, etc. so mental disorders and physical problems, living with my parents in a lot of debt, at 27 years of age, no girlfriend = because i have no money, and I will probably be dropping out of the courses i am taking now because i can't focus...I don't see God's plan in this... My whole Christian life I prayed for him to use me, make me a great man, be a police officer or a firefighter and help/save people, maybe fight human trafficing through RCMP organized crime division (canadian version of the FBI of sort). He used me for nothing...all the friends i led to Christ left the church, i left the church, and i have little hope for the future... You just described my life at age 27. Ten years later I was in a promising career with a company I really enjoy working for, I had a happy marriage, a wonderful little son, and was able to pay cash for two new vehicles. Do you want to know what changed my life? The answer is simple: Acceptance of the truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insightful Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Hey Doubter - I totally hear you. I feel that limbo a lot too. I'm still trying to sort through all of my doubts. I definitely understand the many many problems with Christianity - inconsistencies, moral problems, etc. At the same time, so much of my life has been centered around being a Christian - my marriage, all of my friendships. For 37 years I've interpreted reality through a Christian lens; now that I see the many problems with it, I can no longer blindly trust it to be true. I've found some degree of peace as a "liberal Christian". I've admitted to myself (and to my wife) that I have irreconcilable problems with fundamentalism and inerrancy. So I no longer claim those descriptors for myself. But I'm not ready (or maybe too scared) to totally let go of some form of Christianity. I still love singing worship songs (even though I doubt they're being heard). It's just familiar and warm feeling. And I even still pray sometimes (even though I doubt they're being heard also). It just feels good to give voice to my pain and pretend for a moment that someone cares... and there is a part of me that secretly hopes that somehow God is really there and actually good. I still love I Cor 13 on love and Jesus' compassion for the poor and outcast. What I try NOT to do is to try to make the dissonance resolve by shoving my doubts back down. I did that for too long and it is bad for your mental/emotional health. "Test everything; hold fast to what is good". That's what I'm trying to do... Don't force things to make sense. Keep learning. Be patient. Don't over-focus on your faith crisis even though it feels like it's EVERYTHING. Get distracted being with those you love and doing things you enjoy. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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