I Pmed This To Ironhorse...he Didn't Reply. Of Course.

[bornagainathiest]

Sent 14 June 2014 - 07:27 AM

IronHorse,

 

On May 23 I asked you if you considered the Gospels to be an unbiased historical record.

You still haven't done me the courtesy of replying.

 

I've also had to repeatedly PM you on two previous occasions to prompt a response from you.

 

More recently I answered a post of yours in the, 'No Shit Sherlock' thread in the Den.

It concerned Nicolaus Copernicus.  My response can be found on page # 22, post # 443.  I concluded the message with a question for you.  Please answer it, either here or in that thread.

 

And please answer the question I put to you here, weeks ago.

.

.

.

Y'know what, IronHorse?  (Rhetorical question, btw.)

I just don't buy this I've-been-too-busy-to-reply crap from you.  Not any more. 

 

As far as I can judge you're following the standard pattern of behavior of most Christians who come to this forum.  They start out confident that their arguments, their testimonies, their witnessing and the Bible quotes they post will have some great effect on us.  But they just don't quite 'get' the fact that we are EX-Christians.  Not lapsed or fallen-away Christians.  Not lost or confused Christians.

 

EX-Christians.

 

The Christian apologists don't realize that there are ex-pastors, ex-missionaries and ex-lay preachers here.

They don't see that individually, some of us have decades and decades of Christian life safely behind us.  That collectively we've got millennia of personal experience of Christianity to look back on.  That any scriptural knowledge, any spiritual gifts and any spiritual fruit they have, we've also had and in far greater abundance and with far greater understanding.  That any argument they can cite, we've already seen and already seen thru and already dismantled.  That any item of scientific data or any piece of history they might think about using is already known to us.  That any website or book they know of, we already know of.  That we will always be one step ahead of them.

 

When the Christians gradually realize all of the above, their behavior here changes.

Just as yours has changed.  They stop replying to posts where their arguments are refuted.  They fail to answer polite requests for answers on various issues.  Their initial optimism sours and the dialog between them and us changes.  It devolves into the following cycle. They pop up infrequently to make an occasional argument and then, when it's roundly demolished by us, they stubbornly, petulantly and rudely refuse to respond any further or to admit that they were wrong.  After a suitable period of sulking, they pop up again and the cycle repeats itself... ad nauseaum.  

 

And this is where it's at with you, IronHorse.

The above description fits your behavior here to a tee.  There's no real dialog taking place any more - things have devolved to a clash of wills between us.  You can't make any headway, but you're so convinced you're right that you just won't give up.  You aren't the first Christian to change like this and you won't be the last.  We've seen many, many of them change this way and their wilful, stubborn resistance usually results outcomes like these.

 

1.

The persistent and stubborn Christian unwittingly embarks upon a kind of negative Christian ministry - actively turning people away from Jesus by their behavior.  Even if their arguments are flawless, their doctrine sound and their words are loving, people will see thru this façade by looking at their behavior - their fruit.  These Christians can talk the Christian talk, but their behavior shows that they don't walk the Christian walk.  People see this and take note.  We have taken note of your behavior too.

 

2.

The persistent and stubborn Christian might begin to behave badly, getting themselves warned, confined to the Den or even banned.  SteveBennett is a classic example.  He's tried to get back in here and have his say, forcing his views on us... how many times now?  Six?  Or is it seven?  We'll always catch him.  Likewise with Thumbelina - the textbook example of an unwavering religious fanatic.  She abused a newbie, was unrepentant (after all, she's doing God's work - so how could she possibly have done wrong?) and has been confined to the Den ever since.  Or the Christian might start lying.  JayL and Rayskidude are just two that I've caught doing so.  We catch them all in the end.  People see this and take note.  Just as we've taken note when sdelsolray recently caught you quoting in the 'F.A.O. Ironhorse' thread without citing your source.  Ok, that's not actively lying, to be sure.  But that kind of maneuver is indicative of a less-than-totally-transparent-and-honest mindset.   If you understand nothing else about this post, understand this. We always take note of your behavior.

 

Yes! Yes!  I know! I know!  Those people aren't TRUE Christians.  But you are. 

Isn't that what you were thinking?  ('nuther rhetorical question, btw.)  Well Ironhorse, Jesus said that we'll know who the true Christians are by their fruit - their behavior.  We are taking note of yours.

 

3.

The persistent and stubborn Christian might end up as a permanent, but impotent fixture here.

They continue to pop up in various threads, but they are largely ignored until they write something that stirs us up.  When this happens they stick around for a while, usually until their position is shown to be wrong and/or mistaken.  Then, when the 'crunch' is imminent and they should admit they were wrong and/or mistaken... they quit. 

 

They quit because they wilfully refuse to change their minds about the issue.

They know that we've dragged them a fork in the road and they have to make a choice, which way to go.  To avoid making that choice (and losing face, I suspect) they don't choose... they quit the thread, never to return. They don't quit because they no longer have the time or the energy to put into the thread any more.  They don't quit because they simply don't understand what's being said.  They don't quit because God told them to.  No.  It's much simpler than that.  They just won't change their minds.  When it comes down to it - they refuse.  It's that simple.

.

.

.

And so we're back to the Nicolaus Copernicus issue, Ironhorse.

I replied to your post.  I showed you where you were wrong.  I asked you a question about it... and you quit the thread.  Well, I've taken note of this and as you can see from the above, your behavior is evolving nicely along the lines I've described.   You are gradually becoming more and more defined by the type of behaviors I've outlined.   This is no real surprise to me.

 

But here's your chance to surprise me!

Why don't you do the proper thing and reply to me (out in the forum, not here) about Copernicus, conceding that he wasn't motivated by his Christian faith to explore the universe, but was using a non-Christian methodology, first formulated by Thales of Miletus?

 

Go on, surprise me, Ironhorse!

 

BAA.

 

[Ravenstar]

He won't because he can't. Neither can he concede… the arrogance is too ingrained for any of them to say, "I was wrong".

 

It's pure self-imposed ignorance and ego. Their very identities depend on being right even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

sad

[midniterider]

They believe in Jesus because they believe in Jesus.

They believe stupid shit because they believe stupid shit.

[Flutters]

There is that nanosecond that flickers in the soul of a person when presented with doubt about reality itself.

 

What if? What if...

 

The deafening flicker of abhorrent fear that god may be a lie, and you are just alone is so psychologically deafening that all thought of consideration is refused at the very basic level of our existence. We would formerly have called this the 'armour of god'. Now we know it is nothing more than cognitive dissonance and defense mechanism at play. It speaks to the power of delusion and reminds me of the final scene with Gollum in Return of the King, where Gollum is drowning and burning in the sea of molten rock. As he is sinking to his death, he remains fixed on the ring, smiling, joyous and ever enslaved to his precious, oblivious to the reality around him.

[sdelsolray]

Well, in all fairness to Ironhorse and many others like him, they seem to have a lack of experience conversing with critical, skeptical and/or rational thinkers when it comes to their religion.  They are used to conversing with other believers.  They are often unaware of the emptiness of their mere assertions, illogical arguments and repeated misrepresentations.  Once challenged, they really have few tools to deal with it.  They exhibit all kinds of defensive behaviors.

[Overcame Faith]

They value faith over all else.  For many Christians, it is a badge of extraordinary and much applauded faith among like minded Christians when, even in the face of scientific proof, they dismiss the proof in favor of their faith.  That's how I was and why my online moniker is "Overcame Faith."  Faith is a tough thing to overcome!!

[ironhorse]

 

Sent 14 June 2014 - 07:27 AM

IronHorse,

 

On May 23 I asked you if you considered the Gospels to be an unbiased historical record.

You still haven't done me the courtesy of replying.

 

I've also had to repeatedly PM you on two previous occasions to prompt a response from you.

 

More recently I answered a post of yours in the, 'No Shit Sherlock' thread in the Den.

It concerned Nicolaus Copernicus.  My response can be found on page # 22, post # 443.  I concluded the message with a question for you.  Please answer it, either here or in that thread.

 

And please answer the question I put to you here, weeks ago.

.

.

.

Y'know what, IronHorse?  (Rhetorical question, btw.)

I just don't buy this I've-been-too-busy-to-reply crap from you.  Not any more. 

 

As far as I can judge you're following the standard pattern of behavior of most Christians who come to this forum.  They start out confident that their arguments, their testimonies, their witnessing and the Bible quotes they post will have some great effect on us.  But they just don't quite 'get' the fact that we are EX-Christians.  Not lapsed or fallen-away Christians.  Not lost or confused Christians.

 

EX-Christians.

 

The Christian apologists don't realize that there are ex-pastors, ex-missionaries and ex-lay preachers here.

They don't see that individually, some of us have decades and decades of Christian life safely behind us.  That collectively we've got millennia of personal experience of Christianity to look back on.  That any scriptural knowledge, any spiritual gifts and any spiritual fruit they have, we've also had and in far greater abundance and with far greater understanding.  That any argument they can cite, we've already seen and already seen thru and already dismantled.  That any item of scientific data or any piece of history they might think about using is already known to us.  That any website or book they know of, we already know of.  That we will always be one step ahead of them.

 

When the Christians gradually realize all of the above, their behavior here changes.

Just as yours has changed.  They stop replying to posts where their arguments are refuted.  They fail to answer polite requests for answers on various issues.  Their initial optimism sours and the dialog between them and us changes.  It devolves into the following cycle. They pop up infrequently to make an occasional argument and then, when it's roundly demolished by us, they stubbornly, petulantly and rudely refuse to respond any further or to admit that they were wrong.  After a suitable period of sulking, they pop up again and the cycle repeats itself... ad nauseaum.  

 

And this is where it's at with you, IronHorse.

The above description fits your behavior here to a tee.  There's no real dialog taking place any more - things have devolved to a clash of wills between us.  You can't make any headway, but you're so convinced you're right that you just won't give up.  You aren't the first Christian to change like this and you won't be the last.  We've seen many, many of them change this way and their wilful, stubborn resistance usually results outcomes like these.

 

1.

The persistent and stubborn Christian unwittingly embarks upon a kind of negative Christian ministry - actively turning people away from Jesus by their behavior.  Even if their arguments are flawless, their doctrine sound and their words are loving, people will see thru this façade by looking at their behavior - their fruit.  These Christians can talk the Christian talk, but their behavior shows that they don't walk the Christian walk.  People see this and take note.  We have taken note of your behavior too.

 

2.

The persistent and stubborn Christian might begin to behave badly, getting themselves warned, confined to the Den or even banned.  SteveBennett is a classic example.  He's tried to get back in here and have his say, forcing his views on us... how many times now?  Six?  Or is it seven?  We'll always catch him.  Likewise with Thumbelina - the textbook example of an unwavering religious fanatic.  She abused a newbie, was unrepentant (after all, she's doing God's work - so how could she possibly have done wrong?) and has been confined to the Den ever since.  Or the Christian might start lying.  JayL and Rayskidude are just two that I've caught doing so.  We catch them all in the end.  People see this and take note.  Just as we've taken note when sdelsolray recently caught you quoting in the 'F.A.O. Ironhorse' thread without citing your source.  Ok, that's not actively lying, to be sure.  But that kind of maneuver is indicative of a less-than-totally-transparent-and-honest mindset.   If you understand nothing else about this post, understand this. We always take note of your behavior.

 

Yes! Yes!  I know! I know!  Those people aren't TRUE Christians.  But you are. 

Isn't that what you were thinking?  ('nuther rhetorical question, btw.)  Well Ironhorse, Jesus said that we'll know who the true Christians are by their fruit - their behavior.  We are taking note of yours.

 

3.

The persistent and stubborn Christian might end up as a permanent, but impotent fixture here.

They continue to pop up in various threads, but they are largely ignored until they write something that stirs us up.  When this happens they stick around for a while, usually until their position is shown to be wrong and/or mistaken.  Then, when the 'crunch' is imminent and they should admit they were wrong and/or mistaken... they quit. 

 

They quit because they wilfully refuse to change their minds about the issue.

They know that we've dragged them a fork in the road and they have to make a choice, which way to go.  To avoid making that choice (and losing face, I suspect) they don't choose... they quit the thread, never to return. They don't quit because they no longer have the time or the energy to put into the thread any more.  They don't quit because they simply don't understand what's being said.  They don't quit because God told them to.  No.  It's much simpler than that.  They just won't change their minds.  When it comes down to it - they refuse.  It's that simple.

.

.

.

And so we're back to the Nicolaus Copernicus issue, Ironhorse.

I replied to your post.  I showed you where you were wrong.  I asked you a question about it... and you quit the thread.  Well, I've taken note of this and as you can see from the above, your behavior is evolving nicely along the lines I've described.   You are gradually becoming more and more defined by the type of behaviors I've outlined.   This is no real surprise to me.

 

But here's your chance to surprise me!

Why don't you do the proper thing and reply to me (out in the forum, not here) about Copernicus, conceding that he wasn't motivated by his Christian faith to explore the universe, but was using a non-Christian methodology, first formulated by Thales of Miletus?

 

Go on, surprise me, Ironhorse!

 

BAA.

 

 

"Bias is a prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." ~Dictionary definition

 

 

-So, are the Gospels an unbiased historical record?

 

 I believe the writers of the four Gospels were sincere in their desire to tell the story of Jesus.

 Since they were in favor (believers) of this, you could say they were bias. I will give you the answer

 that it is not an unbiased record. 

 

 

-Concerning Copernicus: Early on Christian thinkers determined that God was rational and hence the universe was

 rational and much of it could be understood. This understanding spread and was a basis that helped spread knowledge

 and learning in Western Europe. Christians founded and built many universities. 

 

 You insist that Copernicus was not motivated by his Christian faith. Why? You say because he used non-Christian methodology.  So why does that matter?  Copernicus worked with numerals that were not Christian in origin. 

[♦ ficino ♦]

-Concerning Copernicus: Early on Christian thinkers determined that God was rational and hence the universe was

 rational and much of it could be understood. This understanding spread and was a basis that helped spread knowledge

 and learning in Western Europe. Christians founded and built many universities. 

 

 You insist that Copernicus was not motivated by his Christian faith. Why? You say because he used non-Christian methodology.  So why does that matter?  Copernicus worked with numerals that were not Christian in origin.

If you're trying to demonstrate that X caused phenomenon A, you have to isolate X among all the variables that might have brought about A. You have to demonstrate that X caused A, that none of the other variables caused A, and that A does not occur without X. This you have not done. At most you have shown that scientific inquiry is consistent with Christian faith. You need to show that it fails without Christian faith. Otherwise, you have only pointed out an accident of history that we all know. 

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

(Snip)

 

 

"Bias is a prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." ~Dictionary definition

 

 

-So, are the Gospels an unbiased historical record?

 

 I believe the writers of the four Gospels were sincere in their desire to tell the story of Jesus.

 Since they were in favor (believers) of this, you could say they were bias. I will give you the answer

 that it is not an unbiased record. 

 

 

-Concerning Copernicus: Early on Christian thinkers determined that God was rational and hence the universe was

 rational and much of it could be understood. This understanding spread and was a basis that helped spread knowledge

 and learning in Western Europe. Christians founded and built many universities. 

 

 You insist that Copernicus was not motivated by his Christian faith. Why? You say because he used non-Christian methodology.  So why does that matter?  

 

It matters because it squarely refutes your above claim.

 

Copernicus worked with numerals that were not Christian in origin. 

 

So what?

Algebra's origin doesn't owe anything to Christianity... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra%C2'> but Christian scientists have used it for centuries.   It's not the usage of a thing that's under scrutiny in this debate Ironhorse - it's the origin.  

 

You're claiming that science couldn't get started until scientists embraced the notion of a rational universe, caused by a rational Christian God.  I've posted numerous examples that refute this claim.  Examples that clearly show that non-Christians understood the universe in scientific terms many centuries before your Protestant awakening of science.  They didn't need any belief in the Christian God to guide their investigations of the world around them.  All they needed were the skills of observation, analysis and logic.  

 

Thus, I call your claim false and request that you defend it by examining my cited examples. 

I don't care how long you take to do so.  You can even examine them ONE AT A TIME if you like.  Now it's over to you.

[Gus]

There is another reason that Christians leave or stop posting, and that is simply the insults that are thrown so regularly at them.

 

I have not been on here long but have already been called a liar (on numerous occasions), a fraud, that I put my children through hell and best of all, a Jesus leg humper, and that’s only the ones I’ve seen.

 

So it gets very draining very quickly and I am already feeling I will leave you to it, why do I or anyone need to put ourselves into that? I was actually PM'd buy a user I have admiration for who warned me there where others on here who are not nice towards Christians and boy where they right.

 

A shame really as there are some people on here who seem willing to have a debate and have interesting points to make, like yourself BAA.

[pratt]

wow,,, ready to dust your feet already, gus?

[Guest Marty]

There is another reason that Christians leave or stop posting, and that is simply the insults that are thrown so regularly at them.

 

I have not been on here long but have already been called a liar (on numerous occasions), a fraud, that I put my children through hell and best of all, a Jesus leg humper, and that’s only the ones I’ve seen.

 

So it gets very draining very quickly and I am already feeling I will leave you to it, why do I or anyone need to put ourselves into that? I was actually PM'd buy a user I have admiration for who warned me there where others on here who are not nice towards Christians and boy where they right.

 

A shame really as there are some people on here who seem willing to have a debate and have interesting points to make, like yourself BAA.

 

 

Boo fuckin hoo, you come on to an EX christian site and preach at us (weren't you posting bible verses to HenryCD, a recent deconvert who was having trouble?) and then cry that we are mean to you?

 

What makes you think all of us want to discuss a religion we left behind?  Some do, I used to, but I have little to no desire to have a discussion with a deluded person who believes in sky fairies and goblins.

 

I bet when you found this place you thought you would tell us your perspective and we would all come back to christ.  We all were just in the wrong church, or were hurt by people, or have misunderstood the church's message, or had the wrong translation of the bible, and once we heard your thoughts, you would be a christian pied piper bring all us lost souls back to god and you would earn yourself a bigger mansion in the clouds for yourself when you die.

 

Well, no one here will miss you if you decide to leave.  Go away and cry to your sky daddy for all I care.  There are a million other christ-bots exactly like you who will come in and do exactly the same thing as you have done.  It is even hard to figure out if they are the same person under a different name because you all parrot the exact same words and phrases.  Complete lack of originality and independent thought.

 

There is nothing you can say that we have not already heard, considered and rejected.  That is why we are EX christians...

[Roz]

There is another reason that Christians leave or stop posting, and that is simply the insults that are thrown so regularly at them.

 

I have not been on here long but have already been called a liar (on numerous occasions), a fraud, that I put my children through hell and best of all, a Jesus leg humper, and that’s only the ones I’ve seen.

 

So it gets very draining very quickly and I am already feeling I will leave you to it, why do I or anyone need to put ourselves into that? I was actually PM'd buy a user I have admiration for who warned me there where others on here who are not nice towards Christians and boy where they right.

 

A shame really as there are some people on here who seem willing to have a debate and have interesting points to make, like yourself BAA.

 

He can't get it through his head that his bible contains some of the most horrific shit ever recorded, and his god, the one he loves, ordered it.

 

He can't understand that if his holy book never contained the orders to kill children (and other atrocities) that I and others have no place to ask him "what would you do" if his god ordered him to do likewise.

 

There's a precedent to these things.  This is why it's relevant.  He is on record claiming he knows what is in the bible, and that regardless of his current knowledge of subject x or y, that can't diminish his adherence to it. 

 

Ok then, let's take him at his word.  He knows his holy book and he believes it's the truth.  When asked the very inconvenient questions of "would you do as your god ordered" now he's crying in the corner.

 

Standard christian retreat.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

There is another reason that Christians leave or stop posting, and that is simply the insults that are thrown so regularly at them.

 

I have not been on here long but have already been called a liar (on numerous occasions), a fraud, that I put my children through hell and best of all, a Jesus leg humper, and that’s only the ones I’ve seen.

 

So it gets very draining very quickly and I am already feeling I will leave you to it, why do I or anyone need to put ourselves into that? I was actually PM'd buy a user I have admiration for who warned me there where others on here who are not nice towards Christians and boy where they right.

 

A shame really as there are some people on here who seem willing to have a debate and have interesting points to make, like yourself BAA.

Eh, don't let the bastards grind you down, Gus. 

[Roz]

Jesus speaking:  ¹⁵ He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. ¹⁶ Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

Apparently the verse (and others like it) do not constitute hate speech.  But calling liars out and pointing out where exactly they lied, asking if they will follow their god's orders, and demanding proof of their own positive claims IS hate speech.

[pratt]

how can IH and GUS be wrong when they are full of love, the truth shall set you free story and bear the fruits of the holy fuckiing ghost,,,,,,,

 

sorry, IH and GUS for the vulgarity,,,,,

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

how can IH and GUS be wrong when they are full of love, the truth shall set you free story and bear the fruits of the holy fuckiing ghost,,,,,,,

 

sorry, IH and GUS for the vulgarity,,,,,

 

I'd say that Gus is about as reasonable as Christians in the Lion's Den come. I'm convinced that IH is just a troll, pretending to be a believer to get a reaction out of us. Sure, I definitely think he's delusional if he believes that his god is not only real, but that he gives a crap about humans, but he is certainly no Thumbelina or OrdinaryClay and he is definitely not a tinpony.

[sdelsolray]

 

how can IH and GUS be wrong when they are full of love, the truth shall set you free story and bear the fruits of the holy fuckiing ghost,,,,,,,

 

sorry, IH and GUS for the vulgarity,,,,,

 

I'd say that Gus is about as reasonable as Christians in the Lion's Den come. I'm convinced that IH is just a troll, pretending to be a believer to get a reaction out of us. Sure, I definitely think he's delusional if he believes that his god is not only real, but that he gives a crap about humans, but he is certainly no Thumbelina or OrdinaryClay and he is definitely not a tinpony.

 

Yes, perhaps Gus needs some time to adjust to the folks around here.  They are not theist lemmings that Gus would usually encounter on a Christian forum.  His technique, so far, is to simply assert his religious beliefs and interpretations of his particular religious dogma.  That doesn't get very far around here.  Indeed, it usually gets challenged, derided and/or ridiculed.  

 

You believe Ironhorse is a Poe?  Interesting.

[Thackerie]

There is another reason that Christians leave or stop posting, and that is simply the insults that are thrown so regularly at them.

 

I have not been on here long but have already been called a liar (on numerous occasions), a fraud, that I put my children through hell and best of all, a Jesus leg humper, and that’s only the ones I’ve seen.

 

So it gets very draining very quickly and I am already feeling I will leave you to it, why do I or anyone need to put ourselves into that? I was actually PM'd buy a user I have admiration for who warned me there where others on here who are not nice towards Christians and boy where they right.

 

A shame really as there are some people on here who seem willing to have a debate and have interesting points to make, like yourself BAA.

 

Awww, don't go away mad. Just go away.

 

No one will miss you; you'll just be replaced by some other arrogant christian barging in here to tell us how they're right and we're wrong and dropping unsupported assertions all over the place. Nothing new.

 

But, thanks for playing. It's good for the lurkers to see yet another example of a would-be apologist who has absolutely nothing new to say, and nothing at all to back up his god claims. Ho. Hum.

[midniterider]

There is another reason that Christians leave or stop posting, and that is simply the insults that are thrown so regularly at them.

 

I have not been on here long but have already been called a liar (on numerous occasions), a fraud, that I put my children through hell and best of all, a Jesus leg humper, and that’s only the ones I’ve seen.

 

So it gets very draining very quickly and I am already feeling I will leave you to it, why do I or anyone need to put ourselves into that? I was actually PM'd buy a user I have admiration for who warned me there where others on here who are not nice towards Christians and boy where they right.

 

A shame really as there are some people on here who seem willing to have a debate and have interesting points to make, like yourself BAA.

 

Actually, the main purpose of the site is to support ex-Christians and Christians considering deconversion. The Lions Den subforum is to give the Christians a place to fight for their Jesus cause while leaving the rest of the forums alone. Unfortunately there are ex-Christians who are angry after deconverting for numerous  religion related reasons and are going to take it out on the Christians that post here. This is a safe haven (maybe the only safe haven they have)  for angry Ex-c's to spew their venom about the repressive and manipulative social structure that people call Christianity. Some people live with Christians everyday and have to pretend they believe for fear of being chastised. This is their only outlet because they may live in the bible belt where 99% of the people are God fearing Christians (or at least pretend to be).

 

No it isn't nice to call you names or accuse you of crimes you did not commit, but we aren't obliged to respect something that you worship yet caused the rest of us grief.  This probably isn't the best place to evangelize or be pro-Christian. But nobody here has banned you for your beliefs either.

 

What I find irritating though is the "I believe in Jesus because I believe in Jesus" mentality....even after the Christian's argument has been destroyed by logic, reason, and critical thinking. Or being witness to the obvious chronic absence of this Jesus other than in one's imagination. When someone can never say , "I cannot be wrong about my belief system" then there is no more debate....it's just a recruiting (or trolling) effort.

 

One time I believed there was a Jesus. Currently I don't. I may be wrong. I do not know. But his lack of presence or clear communication leads me to believe that Jesus is a myth. Can you admit "I may be wrong about my belief in Jesus. He may not exist at all" ? If you can, then I respect you. If not, then I just consider you another robot for Jesus, being told what to think and believe.

 

Enjoy this place if you can. I've learned a great deal about logic here and fallacies. As well as polar extremes in world views.

[Roz]

Bang on, MR nails it. 

 

Gus wrote the post above after writing:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/62847-why-are-we-here/?p=969480

Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God

 

We ultimately run into the same thing with every christian here.  Every single one.  They all have the "truth" and it ultimately reverts to them preaching, not having a "discussion."

[ironhorse]

Bang on, MR nails it. 

 

Gus wrote the post above after writing:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/62847-why-are-we-here/?p=969480

Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God

 

We ultimately run into the same thing with every christian here.  Every single one.  They all have the "truth" and it ultimately reverts to them preaching, not having a "discussion."

 

Gus, it seems to me, is trying to engage in a discussion here.

 

He did not say he had all the truth on every subject, but that did not diminish his faith in the truth of the scriptures. 

 

Could you at least acknowledge his statement without reverting to the same old cliches here?

[mymistake]

It looks to me like Gus is trying to bring his religion to a website that is specifically designed for people who are done with that religion and Gus wants us to take his religious belief seriously.

 

 

Not going to happen.  If you come here with crappy excuses for why your religion does not make sense you will get called on it.  If that is "attitude" then go somewhere else.  We are done with your delusion.  Go preach to somebody who is interested.

[Guest Marty]

 

Bang on, MR nails it. 

 

Gus wrote the post above after writing:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/62847-why-are-we-here/?p=969480

Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God

 

We ultimately run into the same thing with every christian here.  Every single one.  They all have the "truth" and it ultimately reverts to them preaching, not having a "discussion."

 

Gus, it seems to me, is trying to engage in a discussion here.

 

He did not say he had all the truth on every subject, but that did not diminish his faith in the truth of the scriptures. 

 

Could you at least acknowledge his statement without reverting to the same old cliches here?

 

 

Oh, like you christians aren't a whole collection of cliches yourselves?

 

Anything you guys could say we have heard before, pondered, rejected, and walked away from.  Why do you expect us to act like your mythology has any validity?  It doesn't.  If you christians had even a single idea that wasn't based on Bronze and Iron Age thinking, then perhaps an actual discussion could happen.  But you all are parrots without a single original thought in your head.  You all do not have the critical thinking skills to see through the bullshit of religion.

 

I don't care how strong your faith in scriptures are, you are still delusional and uninformed.  Faith is not something to be admired, it is something to shun and reject.  Your faith is exactly the same as the ancient Greeks, Romans, Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Druids, Cavemen, Neanderthals, going back into prehistory.  Your faith is the same as a 4 year old child waiting for Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. Your faith is the same as Lord of the Rings or Orange is the New Black.  IOW, your faith is meaningless.

 

No one cares about your faith, or what you have to say.  Just go the fuck away and your fucking jesus with you.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Bang on, MR nails it. 

 

Gus wrote the post above after writing:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/62847-why-are-we-here/?p=969480

Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God

 

We ultimately run into the same thing with every christian here.  Every single one.  They all have the "truth" and it ultimately reverts to them preaching, not having a "discussion."

 

Gus, it seems to me, is trying to engage in a discussion here.

 

He did not say he had all the truth on every subject, but that did not diminish his faith in the truth of the scriptures. 

 

Could you at least acknowledge his statement without reverting to the same old cliches here?

 

Actually, TinPony, Gus has interacted with me as much as anyone; and while I appreciate his thoughtful approach (in contrast to your copy and paste style), the sad truth is that when I ask him a tough question or make a point he cannot rebut, he does very often fall back on the old "I don't know but the bible is true 'argument'".  It can't be helped, as he is still trapped in The Matrix (don't think the irony of his profile pic is lost on me), bless his heart.  You could learn a thing or two from him, though, TinPony, if you'll learn to pay attention.  

 

However, with that said, it's not the same old cliche if it's true.