Theocracy

[Dhampir]

Considering that the march of progress was effectively halted for thousands years, with a lot of our recent technological advances being re-discovered from societies past that were thrown down by religous zealots. Considering that fundamentalism is spiking in this country and in the entire Islamic world, is it really hard to believe that we will encounter another period of stagnation?

[pandora]

I see Scandinavia (including Finland and Norway) as being far from susceptible from such politiking. However, the US and the Middle East are not. Some Middle Eastern countries are borderline, though... there is still hope. Iran is in a precarious situation... the supposed revolution that was supposed to be spurred by the "freedom" of Iraq never happened, but it is still a possibility. Plus, Egypt is fairly secular. But I don't think there is hope for Israel/Palestine.

[Dhampir]

I see Scandinavia (including Finland and Norway) as being far from susceptible from such politiking.

True enough. But remember, in the past, once enough politiking was done the next step was to bring the sword to bear, which is my point.

[Japedo]

While we will always be cursed with Religious zealots of different stripes, I don't believe there will ever be a world wide theocracy.

[♦ nivek ♦]

"Reloadin' Vetos for Ballistics Parties Daily"

 

kL

[Hero of Hyrule]

I see Scandinavia (including Finland and Norway) as being far from susceptible from such politiking

 

And Denmark, Sweden and Iceland.

Much of Europe isn't susceptible to any kind of Theocracy, I think.

 

Also, I don't think that stagnation and Religion have much to do with each other. Sometimes, but not always. Religion is not the same as idiotic 'normal' people who try to convert you.

 

There are much more differnt things wich could bring forth stagnation.

Also, I don't think Christian theocracies are a possibilety. Once one group of them is in power, the other would protest fanatically. Or it would be a theocracy with not much effect, like in Greece, wich is half governemed by some High Othodox person.

[Lycorth]

I highly doubt a theocracy will ever happen in the US. There is not nearly enough support from either the populace or the police and military for that. Even most Xians really aren't wound up enough about their religion to make it something they really want to force down people's throats. When push comes to shove, most Xians display their faith for what it is - surface only. And even the most religiously zealous boneheads are only in power for a few years. That, combined with a real lack of ultimate support where it is needed, I think will stave off any sort of theocracy in this country.

 

Muslim countries are not so lucky. I do see theocracies taking more hold in these places. They are already so deeply soaked in their deathcult it will take a major social and political collapse to root it out, unless it burns out over a period of generations.

[SkepticOfBible]

You are also forgeting countries like India and Turkey. They have secularity ingrained in their constitution.

 

About the US, I am not too sure. The fundies may have the loudest voice there, but to my knowledge they are not the majority(Americans correct me if I am wrong). Besides there are just way too many religion in the US. Non-christians and non-fundamentalist groups will definately oppose any theoracratic state.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

I don't think there will ever be a worldwide theocracy of one

stripe or another. The world has too many different religions

for that. However, in the US, I am not so sure. If the

standard of living in the US continues to erode and its

educational standards continue to drop, it just might get one.

[Lycorth]

About the US, I am not too sure. The fundies may have the loudest voice there, but to my knowledge they are not the majority(Americans correct me if I am wrong). Besides there are just way too many religion in the US. Non-christians and non-fundamentalist groups will definately oppose any theoracratic state.

 

The fundies do make a lot of noise, but they aren't the biggest group by far. Bigger still are the people who just want to live their lives and not be burdened down by bullcrap. And indeed there are way too many religions in the US for just one of them to catch on like wildfire, no matter what alarmists may say.

 

Fundyism is indeed a disease that must be fought, but sometimes the threat is overestimated.

[SkepticOfBible]

The fundies do make a lot of noise, but they aren't the biggest group by far. Bigger still are the people who just want to live their lives and not be burdened down by bullcrap. And indeed there are way too many religions in the US for just one of them to catch on like wildfire, no matter what alarmists may say.

 

Fundyism is indeed a disease that must be fought, but sometimes the threat is overestimated.

 

Has anybody seen the movie "The Guru". It's so hilarious.

 

When I was young, I used to tell my mom "If I don't well in life, I am just gonna turn into a Guru. It

s the most easiest business. All you have to do is read the Gita, and use common sense to interpretate it."

[Asimov]

It is a possibility, even though I'd like to think that knowledge will win. We've gone through dark ages before, despite having enlightened societies influencing humanity, and we've bounced back from them to become even better.

 

It could go either way, really.

[Ex-COG]

I see Scandinavia (including Finland and Norway) as being far from susceptible from such politiking

 

And Denmark, Sweden and Iceland.

Much of Europe isn't susceptible to any kind of Theocracy, I think.

 

Also, I don't think that stagnation and Religion have much to do with each other. Sometimes, but not always. Religion is not the same as idiotic 'normal' people who try to convert you.

 

There are much more differnt things wich could bring forth stagnation.

Also, I don't think Christian theocracies are a possibilety. Once one group of them is in power, the other would protest fanatically. Or it would be a theocracy with not much effect, like in Greece, wich is half governemed by some High Othodox person.

 

 

(Examines budget, counts money to see if a ticket to Europe and lessons in Scandinavian languages are feasible)

 

I say no to a worldwide theocratic government, though some countries might fall under the sway for a time period. As for America, the Fundigelicals think they have the ear of the Administration through the Republican party, but I think the Republicans are just using them for the votes. They'll throw out some bait now and then, stiring the pot on some issues like abortion and gay marriage, but this is to keep the religious right on a leash, and ensure that they will pull the correct levers on voting day. I also agree with the idea that, if a Christian theocracy did come to pass, it would fall apart under the religious bickering that would break out. Protestant vs. Catholic, Calvinist vs. Arminian, rapture believers vs. non-rapturites...all would want to make sure it was their view that ruled. I doubt it will go that far, however.

 

I hope.

[Thurisaz]

I almost automatically inserted the addition "if it isn't stopped" and voted yes, so now you know where that single vote came from

 

Of course, chances are that not everyone who isn't a fundy already will just roll over and die. The only question is how much damage will be done, how much precious blood will be shed.

 

Of course I'd love to see some blood gathering in huge lakes on the battlefield, as long as it's from bastards like freddie krueger phelps...

[Vigile]

Considering that fundamentalism is spiking in this country and in the entire Islamic world, is it really hard to believe that we will encounter another period of stagnation?

 

I'm not sure it's spiking, it's just getting a lot of press and making lots of noise. In the stock market a stock makes lots of noise and garners lots of attention before it plummets from it's overbloated levels.

 

It would take a serious world wide depression and massive breakdown in public order before religion will once again gain a majority foothold amongst the masses. Even then you have too many competing sects and they would waste their energy fighting one another rather than organizing.

[Ouroboros]

I doubt a worldwide theocracy could ever become real. When people are supressed, eventually they break free. I do fear it could happen in US though, even if the fundamentalists are a minority, it's usually the most outspoken and agressive group of people that gets most attention and most changes in a country. But on the other hand I trust the judicial system to uphold the constitution and somehow the people will get smart. That's my hope.

[NotBlinded]

 

The fundies do make a lot of noise, but they aren't the biggest group by far. Bigger still are the people who just want to live their lives and not be burdened down by bullcrap.

Yes, it's the silent ones that will growl the loudest when encroached upon. Watch out for the dogs that make no sound!

[Dhampir]

I happen to think numbers, as concerning the powerful are irrelevant. Consider that in most governments, a small amount of the populace governs the rest. I brought this up because whether there's actual merit in what is seen, or the whole thing is nothing more than media hype, it does appear that the more intelligent among the fundies are gaining power throughout the world.

 

I happen to think that the majority of the bible thumpers of the dark ages weren't themselves fundamentalists on the level that the rulers of the church were, but went with the status quo when it had been established, because doing so could be favorable (and I don't mean just not being burned for defiance). Just think how easily the mob can get worked into a frothy frenzy. Those less educated about any topic will follow anyone who's POV remotely resembles theirs as long as they sound like they have the answers. That's not to say that the individual is stupid. Most persons will say that they don't like Bush's handling of Iraq, but people voted for him because he was 'the most able to handle Iraq'. Get my point?

[Fweethawt]

 

The fundies do make a lot of noise, but they aren't the biggest group by far. Bigger still are the people who just want to live their lives and not be burdened down by bullcrap.

Yes, it's the silent ones that will growl the loudest when encroached upon. Watch out for the dogs that make no sound!

Oh c'mon now!

 

The bible itself makes a reference to unbelievers being dogs.

 

You're better than that.

 

Come up with somethin' else.

[Guest Blaec]

Some political partys are influenced by religion in a way it's possible only if the people are willing to live with a theocratic govn', a majority of them interested in the same ideals or religion.

[Guest beanheel]

i say even if the fundamentalists acheive the sort of power necessary to institute a global theocratic government, they would immediately begin infighting over some theological minutae they were previously willing to overlook. you know, the baptists are ready to team up with the methodists to defeat the atheists, but get the atheists out of the way and they'll train their swords on one another.

 

so, i guess i'm saying we're not likely to experience a fundamentalist christian empire any time soon.

 

if i am wrong everyone can join me in my underground bunker. just bring along some canned goods, yo.

[Dhampir]

Allow me to clarify: I didn't mean one unified theocracy, but theocracy as a viable form of government for many countries including the U.S.

[Guest beanheel]

Allow me to clarify: I didn't mean one unified theocracy, but theocracy as a viable form of government for many countries including the U.S.

 

 

ok, dhampir. that does change my response some. a great number of countries (specifically middle eastern countries), of course, already exist as functional theocracies. i'm still pretty convinced that the u.s. will not join their number. the religious right only looks like a unified movement because their exists a strong secular population for them to oppose. even if they manage to erode that secular base, the fractious nature of their coalition will drive them against one another. that atmosphere of internal bickering would pretty quickly give rise to a new obstinate secular opposition.

 

i think. hell, i'm a frickin' english major, what do i know.

[Antlerman]

 

The fundies do make a lot of noise, but they aren't the biggest group by far. Bigger still are the people who just want to live their lives and not be burdened down by bullcrap.

Yes, it's the silent ones that will growl the loudest when encroached upon. Watch out for the dogs that make no sound!

This is exactly correct. I keep coming back to the bell curve of society. You have extremes on either end in the far left or the far right, then in the middle you have a huge bulge where the majority of the people are: like this _/\_

 

The extreme edges serve a purpose in society by starting a dialog about issues for those who live in the middle. The edges are allowed to continue because the dialog they are creating has some value to the middle. But the edges are not the force. They exist because the middle is tolerating them. Once the issues have been addressed by the middle to its mutual satisfaction, the extremes in society will move on to the next issue, and so forth.

 

With this thought, the extreme religious community must somehow be creating a dialog for the middle that is important to it, like perhaps the advent of pure science not addressing the human issues of society and human spirituality? Add to this, the faliure of mainstream religion to adapt to society and offer real spiritual meaning to people where they live. Of course the brand of religion the fundi's offer won't last. It's a temporary fix for people looking for something more. Most people don't want to live under the thumb of dictators and will push them out once they've found the middle ground they were looking for the whole time.

[Dhampir]

I never thought of it quite like that. I mean, I did consider that one day those regimes would fall, but I never considered that exact rationale.