Metroplex Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I came accross this site (through a letter I received) UCKG, I think they specialise in 'delivering' people from problems that they themselves haven't been able to deal or resolve with. This is their testimony page: Testimonies I mean if Christianity was a sham, this wouldn't happen! Anyone had something with this group? Comments anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The mind is a strong force, when it has a purpose and a belief. People can fix their lifes, if they just can get to the point where they believe it can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 It could still happen; other religions can offer stories of people being cured via prayers or magic such. The Catholic Church is loaded with stories of them; every saint has at least one. Does that make them all right? Or is it just psychosomatic? I prefer to believe more in the untapped mysteries of the human mind (especially the 90% we dont' use) than a thoroughly discredited and disproven doomsday cult 2000 years past its due date. Besides, why would you believe these stories are accurate? Where's the proof? Beware of things claiming supernatural powers and spread online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I mean if Christianity was a sham, this wouldn't happen! There are other "explanations"....that would fit the "evidence" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Just browsing at the testimonies these people look like a bunch of drunks, crackheads, jailbirds and emotionally immature misfits who couldn't handle reality without the assistance of an invisible friend. Whatever floats your boat, as they say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Besides, why would you believe these stories are accurate? Where's the proof? Beware of things claiming supernatural powers and spread online. Yeah, and I've seen many Christians exaggerating their experience. They make "life before" so incredible bad, and their "new life" so fantastic, while the truth many times are between, more like from mediocre life level 4 to mediocre life level 4.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I mean if Christianity was a sham, this wouldn't happen! If Christianity wasn't a "sham", the hit to miss ratio between answered and unanswered prayers wouldn't be so telling. What you have here (on that site) is a tiny fraction of people who helped themselves, but for some reason or other, they are attributing their outcome to the religion of Christianity. What you're forgetting here, is that people from all religions AND people who don't practice any religion AT ALL still have, and will continue to have, experiences similar to or exactly like most of those mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yeah, and I've seen many Christians exaggerating their experience. They make "life before" so incredible bad, and their "new life" so fantastic, while the truth many times are between, more like from mediocre life level 4 to mediocre life level 4.5. Yes - even some good Xian friends of mine have really exaggerated their experiences and the hardships they've suffered before coming to Christ. It's was as if life was a total hell and Jesus magically turned it into fun and games. Like the people on that link; I've heard tall tales like that before. You hear tell of one person couldn't walk, but prayer and Jesus brought her back to her feet. In reality, it was more like therapy and medication that got the person up again, but oh was she prayin' for Jesus' help, so when the medication and therapy worked, the prayers got all the credit. Emotions win out and everyone credits their Magic Sky Buddy for what they ought to be thanking modern man for. And tall tales of a few miracle healings only opens up one door, one fatal question - "What about the people who prayed to be healed and didn't get it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JPD Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I prefer to believe more in the untapped mysteries of the human mind (especially the 90% we dont' use) than a thoroughly discredited and disproven doomsday cult 2000 years past its due date. myth busted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 All other religions help people overcome addictions, selfishness, etc... it is not a proof for the complete validity of any religoin. I tend to think that these people are not self-aware or self-realized enough to do it on their own, at least in their eyes. Maybe there is something to believing in a higher something, but all that can be explained psychologically. Buddhism offers explanations that take into account both some sort of religion and psychology. If anything, the basic precepts of Buddhism are the "truth" more than any other religion. By the way, for those of you that don't know, Buddhism says that all sufferering is due to selfish desire and ignorance and the desire for impermament things to be permament. This is so obviously true to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I mean if Christianity was a sham, this wouldn't happen! If Christianity wasn't a "sham", the hit to miss ratio between answered and unanswered prayers wouldn't be so telling. What you have here (on that site) is a tiny fraction of people who helped themselves, but for some reason or other, they are attributing their outcome to the religion of Christianity. What you're forgetting here, is that people from all religions AND people who don't practice any religion AT ALL still have, and will continue to have, experiences similar to or exactly like most of those mentioned. agreed also... People trading one crutch for another is rather common........ You don't even know if the testimonies are true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutPauer Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I know a lot of people who've had life-changing experiences with Christianity. I never had an opportunity to have a life-changing experience because I was raised in Christianity from childhood. There are plenty of stories of people overcoming substance abuse after embracing Christianity, so I think there may be something to it, but I stop short of embracing the fanciful stuff, like the GodMan Jesus, Heaven, Hell, angels, and demons. I wonder, though, how much of the power of Christianity to change lives is lost once one chooses not to embrace the "fanciful stuff." Is it easier to overcome a destructive lifestyle if you believe in Heaven and Hell? Intuitively, it seems like it ought to be. I wonder if it's possible to isolate those attributes of Christianity that make it beneficial to individuals and society at large and repackage them into something that agrees with the findings of science and doesn't rely on the fanciful. I think one of the primary attributes of Christianity that gives it power to change lives is its insistance on a Second Coming. It is always forward-looking in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I prefer to believe more in the untapped mysteries of the human mind (especially the 90% we dont' use) than a thoroughly discredited and disproven doomsday cult 2000 years past its due date. myth busted The last couple of years I have been thinking it must be wrong about the 10% only idea, but I never saw anything that said anything else. Thanks for the link. There might be truth to that we only use about 10% at one given time (thinking one thought), because of the heat and energy required, but over a couple of minutes the whole brain has been used in one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I prefer to believe more in the untapped mysteries of the human mind (especially the 90% we dont' use) than a thoroughly discredited and disproven doomsday cult 2000 years past its due date. myth busted Ooo, fascinating - but I am still leary of things I learn online. Seems reasonable to me, but nonetheless, the inner workings of the mind I feel must be involved somehow. Whether we use 10% or 100%, that pile of mush between our ears is more powerful than we realize. By the way, for those of you that don't know, Buddhism says that all sufferering is due to selfish desire and ignorance and the desire for impermament things to be permament. This is so obviously true to me. Not to dump on something you find meaning in, of course, but I hate that teaching. It's as bad as Xianity positing that we suffer because we're inherently worthless sinners. Blame the victim instead of the circumstance or the criminal; in other words, attribute the bad things that happen to us to our own stupid fault rather than to the real sources of the problems. As an example, my mother didn't want to get cancer in the 80s, endure painful chemo to eradicate it, and endure health complications from then till right now, laid up in a nursing home rehabbing from her latest bout of surgery. Any Buddhist who would walk up to me and tell me her suffering was the result of her selfish desire would be picking his teeth up from the sidewalk along with the Xian Babble-thumper who said she was a sinner and must endure Gawd's wrath on sinful humanity. So, to me, that Buddhist tenet is quite false, typical of a cult of self-denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I prefer to believe more in the untapped mysteries of the human mind (especially the 90% we dont' use) than a thoroughly discredited and disproven doomsday cult 2000 years past its due date. myth busted Ooo, fascinating - but I am still leary of things I learn online. Seems reasonable to me, but nonetheless, the inner workings of the mind I feel must be involved somehow. Whether we use 10% or 100%, that pile of mush between our ears is more powerful than we realize. This explains quite a bit, actually. From another site: What data were used to come up with the number - 10%? Does this mean that you would be just fine if 90% of your brain was removed? If the average human brain weighs 1,400 grams (about 3 lb) and 90% of it was removed, that would leave 140 grams (about 0.3 lb) of brain tissue. That's about the size of a sheep's brain. It is well known that damage to a relatively small area of the brain, such as that caused by a stroke, may cause devastating disabilities. Certain neurological disorders, such as Parkinson's Disease, also affect only specific areas of the brain. The damage caused by these conditions is far less than damage to 90% of the brain. I bolded that sentence in there. I don't have anything else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I would have no problem accepting that those people were healed or their lives were changed because of prayer, if it could be shown that's really what did it. That would not, of course, mean that I would accept the Bible as the Gospel Truth. It would simply mean that there's something going on there which has not been--perhaps cannot be--scientifically explained. And I'm fine with that. I suspected as much, anyway. But tales of angels and healings by an omnipotent deity... that's a bit of a stretch, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I prefer to believe more in the untapped mysteries of the human mind (especially the 90% we dont' use) than a thoroughly discredited and disproven doomsday cult 2000 years past its due date. myth busted Ooo, fascinating - but I am still leary of things I learn online. Seems reasonable to me, but nonetheless, the inner workings of the mind I feel must be involved somehow. Whether we use 10% or 100%, that pile of mush between our ears is more powerful than we realize. This explains quite a bit, actually. From another site: What data were used to come up with the number - 10%? Does this mean that you would be just fine if 90% of your brain was removed? If the average human brain weighs 1,400 grams (about 3 lb) and 90% of it was removed, that would leave 140 grams (about 0.3 lb) of brain tissue. That's about the size of a sheep's brain. It is well known that damage to a relatively small area of the brain, such as that caused by a stroke, may cause devastating disabilities. Certain neurological disorders, such as Parkinson's Disease, also affect only specific areas of the brain. The damage caused by these conditions is far less than damage to 90% of the brain. I bolded that sentence in there. I don't have anything else to say. And no more needs be said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The mind is a strong force, when it has a purpose and a belief. People can fix their lifes, if they just can get to the point where they believe it can happen. I agree. Take good and evil; right and wrong. They exist only in the minds of humans. They do not exist for the rest of nature. They are an abstract mental construct that when believed by anyone, comes into existence through the believer's actions. If someone believes they are evil and bad, their actions will represent their belief. If someone believes they are good, their actions will also represent that belief. And, what they perceive in the world will be viewed according to those beliefs. IMO. By the way, for those of you that don't know, Buddhism says that all sufferering is due to selfish desire and ignorance and the desire for impermament things to be permament. This is so obviously true to me. I wholeheartedly agree. Edit: I just read Wolf's response and I would like to say something in turn. First, I would like to say that I am sincerely sorry for what your mom went through. I too lost my mother, last May. If I understand what they are trying to say is that all suffering is related to identification with form or our egos. In many spiritual teachings, they teach thay we are not our form, we are much more than that. So, whatever happens to our bodies causes suffering because we find ourselves, and the ones we love, to be that form and nothing more. Of course the pain the body experiences is horrible, but the emotional pain is so severe because we identify ourselves with our bodies. It is the eternal 'self' they are speaking of. If we can go beyond the form of the person and recognize that they were so much more than their form and their experiences, we wouldn't suffer so much when that form is gone. Whereas Christianity teaches that we are scum and deserve everything that happens to us, this teaching says that we are much, much more. We are perfect and eternal in our essence and we are all that same essence. I find a huge difference there. I hope I haven't offended you, I just wanted to expand a little on that teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Oh these people! *sigh* A lot of people are under the impression that while "we" are our minds, our brains are somehow more in control or "with it" than we are. Wrong-o. Our perceptions, shaped by our feelings and impressions from our life experiences, have a lot more to do with what's going on and how we perceive it than most people give credit. Who we are affects how we see things, how we experience things, and even weather or not we see anything at all. If a person is going through life, convinced they have no control over anything, that is how life is going to be. If they believe something "big" has to happen for their life to improve, then that is what will have to happen for them. And then there's the need to be "special". The folks who come up with fantastical accounts of angels speaking to them, are in the same social "need" boat as the folks who claim to be probed by aliens. A lot of those testimonies read like this: "I couldn't control my own life, I didn't think my life was really my responsibility. I met christians, and they told me that god could take over my life. I needed someone at the helm, cause it wasn't MY job. So I accepted Jesus. My life drastically improved almost immediately. Jesus was there to tell me what to do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathuria Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 A lot of those testimonies read like this: "I couldn't control my own life, I didn't think my life was really my responsibility. I met christians, and they told me that god could take over my life. I needed someone at the helm, cause it wasn't MY job. So I accepted Jesus. My life drastically improved almost immediately. Jesus was there to tell me what to do." White Raven! ow I loved ow that! ow I'm gonna ow keep it for ow future reference ow -- dang kitty anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 White Raven! ow I loved ow that! ow I'm gonna ow keep it for ow future reference ow -- dang kitty anyway LOL! Don't worry about velvety bamps from the kitty paws.....the claws only come out for the terminally rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yup. Don't believe the hype. It's easy for people to attribute & give Christianity or another religion credit for something they did themselves (or had friends help them achieve). Religion has nothing to do with it. It's all about focusing the mind & will to accomplish something. As others have already said, there are stories of miraculous proportions that have been attributed to people in every religious branch known to man. And even plenty of those stories are people who are non-religious. The reason for focusing, be it religion, near death experience, hitting the bottom of the barrel, and so on, is only the catalyst for getting your mind & body in gear. They aren't the cause of your change- that comes from you utilizing your own power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 The mind is a strong force, when it has a purpose and a belief. People can fix their lifes, if they just can get to the point where they believe it can happen. I agree. Take good and evil; right and wrong. They exist only in the minds of humans. They do not exist for the rest of nature. They are an abstract mental construct that when believed by anyone, comes into existence through the believer's actions. If someone believes they are evil and bad, their actions will represent their belief. If someone believes they are good, their actions will also represent that belief. And, what they perceive in the world will be viewed according to those beliefs. IMO. By the way, for those of you that don't know, Buddhism says that all sufferering is due to selfish desire and ignorance and the desire for impermament things to be permament. This is so obviously true to me. I wholeheartedly agree. Edit: I just read Wolf's response and I would like to say something in turn. First, I would like to say that I am sincerely sorry for what your mom went through. I too lost my mother, last May. If I understand what they are trying to say is that all suffering is related to identification with form or our egos. In many spiritual teachings, they teach thay we are not our form, we are much more than that. So, whatever happens to our bodies causes suffering because we find ourselves, and the ones we love, to be that form and nothing more. Of course the pain the body experiences is horrible, but the emotional pain is so severe because we identify ourselves with our bodies. It is the eternal 'self' they are speaking of. If we can go beyond the form of the person and recognize that they were so much more than their form and their experiences, we wouldn't suffer so much when that form is gone. Whereas Christianity teaches that we are scum and deserve everything that happens to us, this teaching says that we are much, much more. We are perfect and eternal in our essence and we are all that same essence. I find a huge difference there. I hope I haven't offended you, I just wanted to expand a little on that teaching. No offense at all, and just to clarify, my mother's still with us. She's a tough old bird, and I hope I can boast half as well when my time comes. I do understand the basic thrust of this teaching, that if we understand that we or our loved ones are more than just our bodies, etc, we wouldn't suffer as bad when they themselves suffer. Problem is, that is unnatural. We may be more than the sum of our parts, but that does not downplay the parts. When loved ones suffer, they feel pain - all parts of them suffer. They suffer, and whether it has anything to do with ego identification or not, the suffering is real, and often undeserved. I simply detest any teaching or idea that posits that our suffering is our fault. in essence, blame-the-victim. Just my two cents; I have respect for Buddhism and think there's much to learn from it, but disagree strongly with other parts of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I mean if Christianity was a sham, this wouldn't happen! Anyone had something with this group? Comments anyone? Why not? People will believe anything because they either fear it is true or they want it to be true. You can see that most of those people had something emotionally traumatizing in their lives....of course they're gonna be easily converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Problem is, that is unnatural. We may be more than the sum of our parts, but that does not downplay the parts. When loved ones suffer, they feel pain - all parts of them suffer. They suffer, and whether it has anything to do with ego identification or not, the suffering is real, and often undeserved. I simply detest any teaching or idea that posits that our suffering is our fault. in essence, blame-the-victim. Just my two cents; I have respect for Buddhism and think there's much to learn from it, but disagree strongly with other parts of it. I can very much respect that, and I am glad that your mom is still with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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