Text Messages From Dad

[★ Citsonga ★]

As many of you know, four years ago I wrote my parents a lengthy letter explaining multiple reasons for why I no longer believe Christianity to be true (in response to being asked why I wasn't going to church anymore). They were shocked to receive such a detailed account, but once they'd had time to read through it, they backed off about religion, so I was pleased that the letter had served its purpose.

 

I always knew that it would be harder for my father to grasp my position than my mother (she's definitely more intelligent than he is). My mother has almost completely avoided the issue with me, which is great, but even my father hadn't made much of an issue out of it for four years. Whenever we were out to visit, he would sometimes ask on Sunday mornings if I was going to go to church with them (that didn't really bother me too much, as he was polite about it), and a time or two he made religious comments when talking to me (which may not have been intentionally directed at me, since it's his way of thinking and talking and therefore may have just come out automatically), but he basically left me alone about it.

 

Well, things have changed. Dad has now started to irritate me with Sunday text messages. Last Sunday he sent me this text:

 

Did you go to church to day? Thats more important than exercise.

 

For some background, whenever we go out to visit my parents (we live a little over 500 miles away) I often take time to exercise while they go to church. Last Sunday was the first Sunday morning after we got back home from our last visit.

 

I thought about responding to his text, but I figured it would be best to ignore it and let it go, so I didn't reply. Then this morning I got almost the same exact text from him again:
 

Did you go to church this morning? Its more important than exercise.

 

Now I'm a bit irritated. He had better not start bombarding me with religious bullshit. I will not tolerate harassment. Since he often does some walking as exercise, I could easily turn his text around and respond with something like this:

 

"Did you go to mosque on Friday? It's more important than exercise."

 

Or I could respond with something along these lines:

 

"Please stop harassing me about church if you do not wish to receive another very long letter detailing MORE problems with the Bible that I didn't get to in my prior letter."

 

Or I could say:

 

"No, I didn't waste my time in church today, and exercise has measurable value."

 

Or I could keep it simple with something like:

 

"I don't go to church for the same reason I don't go to mosque, temple, synagogue or kingdom hall."

 

Or I could just brush it off again and see if he pesters me again next week. As for now, I'm going to go get some measurable results from some exercise (which I was not doing during church time this morning).

[TrueFreedom]

Yeah, I don't understand some of the religious statements that my dad will make to me that come out of nowhere.  When I confront him about them he'll back of for a while before starting up again, as if he thinks that I agree with him.  I don't know whether it's more his age or his religious delusions.

[Margee]

Citsonga, here's what I would text back (just my 2 cents)

 

''Hi dad! Good to hear from you! Nope, I did not go to church today and I won't be going in the future either. You remember that letter I sent four years ago? Let's talk about anything except that, O.K. Dad? Hope you have a nice day! Love ya!''

 

P.S. I (personally) saved that letter you wrote four years ago because that letter should be turned into a book!!

 

Hope it goes well for you. Stand your ground C!

 

(hug)

[mymistake]

Sounds like you just want it to go away.  I'd try "I don't want to talk about it.  And really you wouldn't enjoy talking about it either so why don't we just keep things polite and not talk about religion?"

[Geezer]

Your parents love you and they will always be concerned for your safety. It's what parents do. It isn't likely they will ever accept your decision to leave the faith. I feel certain they are torn between letting you live your own life as an adult and concern that you have made a grevious error in judgment that will cost you your soul.

 

They aren't going to stop loving your or being concerned for your eternal destiny. It might be helpful to look at the situation from their point of view and maybe then you will be able to cut them some slack. Maybe just acknowledge to them that you love them too, but you can't be something you're not. Maybe even tell them its okay for them to pray for you. That will make them feel better and its irrelevent to you. Its a tough situation.

 

My wife is still a believer. I try to find common ground becasue I love her. As I've noted in other posts I accompany her to church so she doesn't have to go alone. She was willing to meet me half way in that she is willing to attend a liberal form of Christianity, the Methodist Church to be specific, I get nothing out of the service but we're together and that's all she really wants. If you love someone you have to find a way to compromise and meet them halfway unless they refuse to do that. We found a way that works for us.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

Have you thought of copying your mom in on this? Find out if there is some new crusade of the month that has been started? You know, where you have to invite someone every Sunday kind of thing?

[midniterider]

"I went to church, Dad. I think I really connected with the Lord today."

 

-next message-

 

"Just kidding, Dad. "

[HolyGoat]

Honestly, my reply would be "No, I didn't, and you know full well why."

 

And I would like to take the opportunity to echo what a few others have said: I too downloaded, read and filed away your letter. It was the first piece of ex-christian literature (yes, I will call it that!) I read upon my deconversion and the reason I signed up for this site in the first place, so thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! So many have benefited!

[Voice]

You should say, "did you exercise today? It's more important than church."

[Voice]

One thing for sure, you're lucky to have parents who back off. A lot of us here don't have that.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Thanks to all who have responded. I didn't bother replying, but if it happens again next week, I just may.

 

Citsonga, here's what I would text back (just my 2 cents)

 

''Hi dad! Good to hear from you! Nope, I did not go to church today and I won't be going in the future either. You remember that letter I sent four years ago? Let's talk about anything except that, O.K. Dad? Hope you have a nice day! Love ya!''

 

P.S. I (personally) saved that letter you wrote four years ago because that letter should be turned into a book!!

 

Hope it goes well for you. Stand your ground C!

 

(hug)

 

Thanks for the kudos, the suggestion and the hug!

 

Sounds like you just want it to go away.  I'd try "I don't want to talk about it.  And really you wouldn't enjoy talking about it either so why don't we just keep things polite and not talk about religion?"

 

Yeah, and he should know from the letter that it's not a conversation that he'd like to have either.

 

I would just blow it off and not deal with it unless he gets pointed at you, then lie about it if you don't feel like dealing with it.  In reality, it is none of his business, if you are a legal adult.

 

I decided to go with blowing it off again this time, though I don't think I can keep ignoring it if he keeps pestering me. As far as lying about it, though, I very strongly disagree and would never do that. I'm a man of my word, plain and simple, so lying is not an option for me. Besides, even if I did lie about it, there's a good chance he'd find out, and then I'd lose credibility with anything I'd say. I'd be a "liar" to him, thus making it easy to brush off anything I would say.

 

Your parents love you and they will always be concerned for your safety. It's what parents do. It isn't likely they will ever accept your decision to leave the faith. I feel certain they are torn between letting you live your own life as an adult and concern that you have made a grevious error in judgment that will cost you your soul.

 

They aren't going to stop loving your or being concerned for your eternal destiny. It might be helpful to look at the situation from their point of view and maybe then you will be able to cut them some slack. Maybe just acknowledge to them that you love them too, but you can't be something you're not. Maybe even tell them its okay for them to pray for you. That will make them feel better and its irrelevent to you. Its a tough situation.

 

My wife is still a believer. I try to find common ground becasue I love her. As I've noted in other posts I accompany her to church so she doesn't have to go alone. She was willing to meet me half way in that she is willing to attend a liberal form of Christianity, the Methodist Church to be specific, I get nothing out of the service but we're together and that's all she really wants. If you love someone you have to find a way to compromise and meet them halfway unless they refuse to do that. We found a way that works for us.

 

Thanks, and I pretty much agree. Please note that I've been fine with him politely asking if I was going to go to church when we were out to visit, and I've never brought the subject up with him. I'm perfectly fine with him believing whatever he believes, but constantly harassing me about it won't fly. After receiving the letter explaining in great detail many of the reasons why I don't believe Christianity anymore, anyone with half a brain should know that simply saying that saying church is more important than exercise will do absolutely nothing to undo the plethora of problems cited with the religion. Even if he was right and I was wrong in my assessment of the religion, it would take more than pestering me about church. His approach is completely ridiculous, even if well intended.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Have you thought of copying your mom in on this? Find out if there is some new crusade of the month that has been started? You know, where you have to invite someone every Sunday kind of thing?

 

I doubt that that's the case. Typically an "invite someone to church" thing is designed to get people into that church. I live 500 miles away, so I wouldn't be able to attend their church anyway.

 

I do wonder, though, if my grandmother has been encouraging him to keep on me about church. My birthday card from her this year contained a tract. It's the first time she'd done that, so I think it was recently that she found out that I hadn't been going to church. My sister's family was down there to visit not long before that, so I'm wondering if a niece or nephew commented about me not going to church.

 

"I went to church, Dad. I think I really connected with the Lord today."

 

-next message-

 

"Just kidding, Dad. "

 

That's funny. I wouldn't do that, but it is good to think of for a little laugh.

 

Honestly, my reply would be "No, I didn't, and you know full well why."

 

And I would like to take the opportunity to echo what a few others have said: I too downloaded, read and filed away your letter. It was the first piece of ex-christian literature (yes, I will call it that!) I read upon my deconversion and the reason I signed up for this site in the first place, so thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! So many have benefited!

 

That would be a good reply. I may go with something along those lines if he pesters me again next Sunday. By the way, I'm glad that my letter was a benefit for you. Thanks for the kind words.

 

You should say, "did you exercise today? It's more important than church."

 

That would definitely be true!

 

One thing for sure, you're lucky to have parents who back off. A lot of us here don't have that.

 

Yes, that's a very good point, and I am thankful for that. I know it could be far, far worse.

[mwc]

     If it were me the answer would be "No, atheists don't go to church (except for maybe weddings and funerals)."  But my dad couldn't text me if his life depended on it so I'm in the clear.

 

          mwc

[★ Citsonga ★]

Yeah, I don't understand some of the religious statements that my dad will make to me that come out of nowhere.  When I confront him about them he'll back of for a while before starting up again, as if he thinks that I agree with him.  I don't know whether it's more his age or his religious delusions.

 

Could be either. With my dad, it's mainly religion rather than age. Good luck with your situation.

 

     If it were me the answer would be "No, atheists don't go to church (except for maybe weddings and funerals)."  But my dad couldn't text me if his life depended on it so I'm in the clear.

 

          mwc

 

My dad just got a cell phone and learned how to text within the past year, with the help of my mother. I think he still doesn't even know how to turn on a computer. I'm not ready to use the scary "a" word with my parents, but it is true that weddings and funerals are about the only things that I'd care to enter a church for. (In fact, I'll be going to a wedding in a couple weeks.)

[Overcame Faith]

The good thing, Citsonga, is that he has not taken the kind of hateful action against you like we hear about from other members on ExC. I think you made a good decision in ignoring your Dad's prompting you to go back to church. I remember your letter very well. It was well written, well thought out, logical, clear, not harsh on your parents. My suggestion if your Dad does it again is to respond in the same way you did in your letter. I do not mean another long explanation as you did in your letter. Rather, I mean to answer from your heart. Explain how his inquiries affect you and why you want him to stop doing it. I also liked the recommendation of copying your mother in on your reply so maybe she can persuade him to stop it.

 

Best of luck to you.

[★ Citsonga ★]

The good thing, Citsonga, is that he has not taken the kind of hateful action against you like we hear about from other members on ExC. I think you made a good decision in ignoring your Dad's prompting you to go back to church. I remember your letter very well. It was well written, well thought out, logical, clear, not harsh on your parents. My suggestion if your Dad does it again is to respond in the same way you did in your letter. I do not mean another long explanation as you did in your letter. Rather, I mean to answer from your heart. Explain how his inquiries affect you and why you want him to stop doing it. I also liked the recommendation of copying your mother in on your reply so maybe she can persuade him to stop it.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

Thank you for your input. You make some really good points. I definitely don't want to respond in an anal fashion, even though I am frustrated that he seems to have completely forgotten how painstakingly I explained where I'm coming from. Granted, it's been four years, so he's probably forgotten the extent of the points I laid out (some of them may have gone over his head anyway, even though I tried to be very clear). If the pestering continues, then perhaps the best approach would be for me to politely request that he re-read that letter for a refresher on why I don't go to church anymore, since the facts I covered there haven't changed.

[Ellinas]

Personally, I'd be tempted to change my phone number.  And not give it out to him.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Well, after a couple weeks without religious harassment, my father sent me this random text this evening:

 

How can the sun burn and burn and never burn up? Only God could do that.

 

Here we go with the god-of-the-gaps crap. He has no clue how flawed the "I don't know, therefore God" argument is, nor does he seem to understand that even if a "God" were real, that would not make Christianity true. The plethora of problems I detailed in the letter a few years ago don't just disappear if there would happen to be some deity.

 

I haven't the time (working two jobs) nor desire to get into a trite debate, but I did feel the need to give a response this time, since it's the third time he's sent a religious text. I didn't want to be rude, nor did I want to send a reply that ignored what he said, so here is what I sent back:

 

It's not exactly just a big bonfire. It's nuclear fusion. Look it up.

 

I'm sure that will go right over his head, but oh well....

[sdelsolray]

Well, after a couple weeks without religious harassment, my father sent me this random text this evening:

 

How can the sun burn and burn and never burn up? Only God could do that.

 

Here we go with the god-of-the-gaps crap. He has no clue how flawed the "I don't know, therefore God" argument is, nor does he seem to understand that even if a "God" were real, that would not make Christianity true. The plethora of problems I detailed in the letter a few years ago don't just disappear if there would happen to be some deity.

 

I haven't the time (working two jobs) nor desire to get into a trite debate, but I did feel the need to give a response this time, since it's the third time he's sent a religious text. I didn't want to be rude, nor did I want to send a reply that ignored what he said, so here is what I sent back:

 

It's not exactly just a big bonfire. It's nuclear fusion. Look it up.

 

I'm sure that will go right over his head, but oh well....

 

 

You could write back, "Your ignorance concerning stellar nucleosynthesis and your use of the argument from incredulity logical fallacy are not my problems.  They are your problems.  You need to solve them, or not.  Your choice.  Some day, perhaps, I will take the time to discuss this further with you, but only after you have provided sufficient evidence to me that (i) you understand the scientific theory of stellar evolution (you don't have to agree with it, just understand what the theory proposes) and (ii) you understand the informal logical fallacy called "argument from incredulity aka argument from ignorance".  Until them I remain."

[RenaissanceWoman]

There are billions of "suns" in the universe. What makes our so special? Because it supports life on our tiny spec of a planet? Why would god create so many of them? Just for our amusement and wonderment? Ahhh, the vanity of humanity.

 

Your "nuclear fusion" response idea cracked me up. His ignorance is his bliss, I guess. Easier to believe than to try to understand science.

[mymistake]

I would give him a short cultural anthropology lesson:

 

The Egyptians believed Ra had the power.  The Greeks believed it was Apollo.  Most primitive cultures created a divine person as a sun god or goddess.  For the Romans it was Sol Invictus who was born on December 25 who had this power.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Yesterday morning dad sent me this gem (spelling errors are his):

 

Even if it is nuclier fusion only God could do that. Look how many thousand years its been doing that. You say why dont God reviel him self more we have the Holy spiret to lead us and guid us and give us impresions that lets us know what to do.

 

I got the text in the afternoon when I was between jobs, but I worked late and didn't have time to reply until this morning. I just sent this back:

 

Impressions are simply opinions, and the sun's existence is merely evidence of the sun itself. Regardless, I never said there can't be a god, so I'm not sure why you want to start an argument. I have no desire (nor the time, especially via texting) to argue. Have a great week. I love you.

 

 

[★ Citsonga ★]

If anyone's interested in how the conversation went from where I left off, yesterday morning dad responded with this:
 

 

I dont know why you think I am trying to start an argument. I would think you would be glad that I am concerned about you and your soul. I do think God can impress on some one to do or not to do something through the Holy Spirit. ( LOVE YOU )

 

I got the text in the afternoon and then I sent this reply:
 

 

There's nothing to be concerned about. Remember the letter I sent a few years ago to answer you? I recommend that you read it again. The facts have not changed, nor do the problems with Christianity disappear if you ignore them. If there is a god, I'm sure he'd rather I be the honest and sincere person I am than follow a religion that is demonstrably false. I only point that out because you brought the subject up. I have not pestered you about your views. I respect your right to your views, but you need to learn to respect me and my right to my views.

 

Shortly afterward he sent me this text:
 

 

That makes me concered more

 

He hasn't sent anything since that last text yesterday afternoon, so hopefully that means this conversation is over. I really don't like to have to be so blunt (I'd rather just live and let live), but I will not tolerate being harassed with religious garbage.

[Jeff]

Sorry. It's never over.

My grandfather is very concerned for me but he knows I won't go to church any more. He now talks to my grown children who try to assure him I was/am a great dad despite my refusal to lead my family to church.

He loves me and thinks I'm in danger for my soul I'm sure. But he can't give up because he believes. I'm sad for him that he worries about me. And it makes conversation difficult.

science won't put someone at ease who doesn't understand science. Sounds like your dad doesn't have much science in his background from your letter and from those quotes you showed. So he has nothing to put it all in perspective for him. He doesn't understand the power that a sun wields even to be the birthplace of elements that we are made up of physically. It may take a lot of work on his part before he could understand your point.

My grandfather has an 8th grade education that he became a financial success with. But he will never understand science like I am beginning to. Your dad may never understand either.

[★ Citsonga ★]

^^^ Yeah, I know it's never completely over. I was referring to this specific text conversation, which could be over. I hope it is, anyway.