Christian Relationships

[labratsolo]

Because I've spent so much of my life around Christians, the church, etc., for a long time my only reference for dating and relationships has been Christian, heterosexual couples, the majority of which ascribe to marriage as the be-all and end-all of human existence.

 

Now that I am out of the Christian lifestlye, I find myself adjusting to a new set of rules and expectations regarding dating, sex, sexuality, etc., while at the same time, many of my friends continue to marry and carry on with a Christian set of expectations...

 

I find myself congratulating people around me for engaging in something that I know they're not ready for, and which I'm not even sure that I believe in for myself, while at the same time experiencing things that very few people I know can even relate to...

 

Does anybody know what I'm talking about?

[Dianka]

I have a friend that is getting married next year, and I know they are not going to last. She's a total bitch to him, and he's marrying the first person that's ever given him pussy. You think I'm going to tell this girl I don't think they'll last more than a year? It's their life. However poor the decision is you can't talk people out of something. These are your friends? Be happy for them when they are happy, and be there for them when they feel like the world is going to end. Unless they are doing something dangerous, why give your opinion?

 

I think marrige for the most part is fruitless. If you do it wrong you end up in court. The only measure for whether a marrige is successful is if a spouse dies, yay. But hey, at least there's a free bar at the reception, right?

 

 

The new rules are great aren't they? I personally swear and masturbate as much as I can to make up for lost time when I was shamed for tacky language and felt bad. Do what you want, just don't physically harm anyone unless they find that sort of thing exciting, mmk?

[Lorena Rodriguez]

 

Now that I am out of the Christian lifestlye, I find myself adjusting to a new set of rules and expectations regarding dating, sex, sexuality, etc., while at the same time, many of my friends continue to marry and carry on with a Christian set of expectations...

 

Actually, I feel the way you feel in general, not just about sexuality. I feel like I've been in a bubble all my life and I am clueless as to how to live among my fellow humans.

 

As for sex, I am married and I plan to stay faithful. But I often wonder how people who sleep around manage to stay clean from sexually transmitted deseases. Are condoms enough?

 

I was a "nun", so I know nothing. Isn't that scary?

 

I hope my question isn't offensive. If it is, please accept my apologies.

 

Lorena

[Dianka]

Woah, Lorena. You were a nun? I find that amazing for some reason.

[trashy]

Does anybody know what I'm talking about?

 

I know *exactly* what you are talking about. It is very difficult to grow up with Christian-based rules permeating society and to then attempt to shift the basis for all of your decisions to a much-simpler general rule of not harming others. Monogamy is much less important under such rules. But when you make the transition from xtianity to freethought while in a relationship that was begun with all of the normal xtian ceremony and vows, that's where it gets tricky!

[labratsolo]

I fail to see how people wanting to embrace love of family and each other, so long as they are willing and desiring to do so, can be seen as a cult. When I see how happy our children are and how healthy they are as a result of my dh and I loving each other, it gives me hope for humanity. They know that marriage isn't the end all be all, nor that it is something to be rushed into, they have a very balanced outlook on it.

 

Maybe I should clarify... I certaintly don't think that the majority of people who do embrace love of family and each other are part of some kind of cult, but I do think that there is a system out there in churches that pressures young people from their early teens through young adulthood into a belief system that says that God has some amazing person out there for you (everyone), and that marriage is the ultimate goal in relationships.

 

Having gone to Christian schools (and college) my whole life, I have seen hundreds of people I know getting married, not out of a true sense of love or family, but rather because they felt that it was what they were supposed to do. I'm 26 now and the divorces are already rolling in among Christian friends my age, and the stories are very sad. You realize how little of a factor love had been in these relationships.

 

But when it is true and done out of a personal motivation, rather than what the system of parents, pastors, Christian friends, etc. dictate, it can be something special, which I am glad you have found, Serene.

[Lorena Rodriguez]

Woah, Lorena. You were a nun? I find that amazing for some reason.

 

 

There were quotation marks around the nun word. Meaning, I was totally pure and virgin up till I got married.

[labratsolo]

As for sex, I am married and I plan to stay faithful. But I often wonder how people who sleep around manage to stay clean from sexually transmitted deseases. Are condoms enough?

 

I was a "nun", so I know nothing. Isn't that scary?

 

I hope my question isn't offensive. If it is, please accept my apologies.

 

Lorena

 

I have found that people who sleep around don't actually do so nearly as much as you may think they do (well, there are some, but... )

 

Most people don't carry STD's and practicing safe sex generally will keep you safe. Of course there are exceptions, but not even close to as prevalent as the abstinence preachers will lead you to believe...

 

Were you really a nun, or do you mean that figuratively?

 

 

 

There were quotation marks around the nun word. Meaning, I was totally pure and virgin up till I got married.

 

Never mind, I just read what you wrote.

[Lycorth]

I disagree with marriage being the end-all of Xian existence. Jesus™ is the end-all, and marriage is only a tool to bring more Xians into the world and expand the cult. I hate how Xianity degrades marriage into only yet another thing to worship their god with instead of a loving union between two people (no matter what they claim). I hate furthermore how Xians claim that marriage is an "institution of Gawd" - then what about all the other pagan marriage ceremonies that exist? Did Gawd, who hates anything pagan with a passion, institute those?

 

Marriage is an oath of fidelity and love between two people. It has nothing to do with any god and should never be desecrated into a tool of religious indoctrination.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

But when you make the transition from xtianity to freethought while in a relationship that was begun with all of the normal xtian ceremony and vows, that's where it gets tricky!

 

Absolutely. I went from being a freaky fundy marryied to the same to being a freethinker married to a freaky fundy. It didn't last. Sure, it COULD have lasted...if I wanted to live my life in misery. I could suppress all my views to keep peace with her and her family, or, I could speak my mind and leave.

 

It wouldn't have even been necessary for me to leave to speak my mind I guess. But I was dissatisfied with my life entirely once I woke up from the fundie nightmare. I was living in small town Alabama (the BUCKLE of the fundie bible belt), working in a dead end job, married to a woman who "supported" me as long as what I did went along with HER plan, and saw myself falling into the footsteps of my henpecked father-in-law.

 

Yes, I have kids with this woman, but my thoughts on that were that it was better to end things now when they are young and won't remember much about the time I was living in the same household with them, than to stay until I was ready to murder their mother and then leave when they are older and more accustomed to me being there.

 

It was of course the hardest decision I've ever had to make...leaving my kids, not leaving my ex...but I still believe it to be in their best interest. I live across the country from them because of work, but I am able to go back and visit them on a regular basis and I call them several times a week.

 

It still tears me up sometimes because I wish things could have been different. But seeing that my ex married another fundie a month after our divorce was final completely drove home the correctness of my actions.

 

Going from belief to free thought is a difficult transition though. It affects so many parts of your life that you never would have really thought about...but then so many xians don't use their brains and let their pastors think for them anyway.

 

BTW, I am entirely anti-marriage right now. Can't give any satisfactory explanations as to why since even though I am not currently married, I am in a monogamous relation, so what's the difference other than a piece of paper stating that we "belong" to each other. Maybe that's the main fault I find with it. Why do we need government to sanction our relationships? Who knows...more fodder for another topic.

[Lorena Rodriguez]

 

I have found that people who sleep around don't actually do so nearly as much as you may think they do (well, there are some, but... )

 

Most people don't carry STD's and practicing safe sex generally will keep you safe. Of course there are exceptions, but not even close to as prevalent as the abstinence preachers will lead you to

 

Never mind, I just read what you wrote.

 

Hey!

 

Thank you so much for daring to touch on the subject. And you are right, my sex education comes from hearing Dobson on the radio for years, and all kinds of fundy preachers as well.

 

I also "learned" from Sex in the City, where the lovely ladies appeared to sleep with a different guy every Friday.

 

So, when I imagine myself single again, I imagine meeting a guy in a bar, and sleeping with him the same night. And then I freak thinking, how would I know if they guy has AIDS or anything dangerous.

 

Yes, I am very scared of most worldly things. You can take the woman out of the church. But taking the church out of the woman is a whole different ordeal.

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Lorena

[non conformist]

My, my....how deconversion opens our eyes! So much that you've been wanted to explore in your mind but were afraid to "go there" purely out of guilt. Mind boggling.

 

I think the reason the churches have to push marriage on the young is because they know that all teenagers think about most of the day is sex. Sex is such a HUGE part of religion. Suppression of sex and sexual desires, I should say. People aren't allowed to think of sex as something done purely out of the enjoyment of sharing pleasure with our bodies. Marriage allows for people to have sex so it's pushed on to these kids as the greatest thing. But these marriages fail when the young bride/groom sees another piece of ass it wants to "marry" (among other factors). Getting married in order to have sex is just as bad as getting married for money or anything other than love and a desire for a lifelong commitment.

 

Guilt and fear are the churche's favorite manipulation tools. IMO, the issue of sex, and all it entails, is up to each individual. I know that fear and guilt put a stop to open mindedness. Sex is NOTHING to fear. Your body is YOURS to do with as you please; and since you only get one you should take care of it.

 

Lorena, casual sex is risky, but so are a lot of things in life. A person can be married and faithful to their spouse, but their partner may have a sexual indiscretions and bring a disease home. It's all a cance! I do all the things one's supposed to do to take care of myself and not get diseases. I LOVE sex; embrace it; enjoy it; can't get enough of it. It doesn't mean that I lost my mind and let my hormones control me once I deconverted from the cult. But I am very happy that I have a healthy, very active sex life (monogamous at the moment), and I have no guilt or fear whatsoever.

[Mnemosyne]

I don't have any issues with the idea of marriage, though I don't think it's for me because I don't see the point in it - it's just a ritual and makes no changes about your relationship that aren't simply in your mind and therefore could be made anyway. But if it's what people want, then I see no problem with it.

 

However, the Christian institution of marriage is patriarchal and designed to preserve the hierarchy of God --> Man --> Woman. Marriage needs a revamping to remove the patriarchal elements (such as the father "giving away" his daughter, white and the lifting of the veil as representing the bride's purity/virginity, and so on - after all, it was originally economic, an exchange of property between the bride's father and the groom). And Christian marriage also defines itself as between a man and woman, so it excludes homosexuals.

 

But as I said, once marriage is reformed, then I don't see a problem with it, although I do agree with labratsolo that our society pressures young people into seeing marriage, particularly for women, as some sort of end-goal and top priority, and pressures them to reach this goal as soon as possible. :angry:

[labratsolo]

My, my....how deconversion opens our eyes! So much that you've been wanted to explore in your mind but were afraid to "go there" purely out of guilt. Mind boggling.

 

I think the reason the churches have to push marriage on the young is because they know that all teenagers think about most of the day is sex. Sex is such a HUGE part of religion. Suppression of sex and sexual desires, I should say. People aren't allowed to think of sex as something done purely out of the enjoyment of sharing pleasure with our bodies. Marriage allows for people to have sex so it's pushed on to these kids as the greatest thing. But these marriages fail when the young bride/groom sees another piece of ass it wants to "marry" (among other factors). Getting married in order to have sex is just as bad as getting married for money or anything other than love and a desire for a lifelong commitment.

 

Guilt and fear are the churche's favorite manipulation tools. IMO, the issue of sex, and all it entails, is up to each individual. I know that fear and guilt put a stop to open mindedness. Sex is NOTHING to fear. Your body is YOURS to do with as you please; and since you only get one you should take care of it.

 

This is so true... I remember all of the fear and guilt that I used to have, and the ways in which I would suppress my feelings, only to discover after my deconversion how little I actually had to fear, as well as how many other things besides "God's sacred love" I could express through sex. Now I am learning what it means to be a sexual being, which is not the easiest thing to learn (it comes with a lot of bumps in the road), but an experience that I wouldn't trade. I have learned that as I change in life, with the things that I want and the person I am, it would be pretty wrong of me to commit myself to somebody and expect them to roll with my changes, at least for now... Maybe when I am more at peace with my place in the world and more set in my ways, then I can make that commitment. I only wish my mentors and role models taught me that, instead of the "God has one person for you" philosophy...

[evergreen]

Wow. I know what you mean.

I know of lots of young Pentecostals who are engaged or married.

It scares the shit outta me.

 

Because I KNOW that some of them only married so young so they could have sex. One of my friend's cousins, "A," and her husband, "M," got married almost a year ago, when they were both 20. (They're Pentecostal pastors, yippee!) They were having lots of trouble, too, and still chose to change the date so they could get married sooner, just so they could fuck. My friend was soooo pissed with her.

 

It actually kind of sickens me.

To me, Christians are the ones destroying the "sanctity" of marriage... it's become solely about sex for so many of them.

 

But it does seem to be encouraged.

A lot of the youngsters near my age that I know who are engaged/married are Bible College kids. That means more pressure to get married, because they have an easier time finding a church to preach at if they are married. Gross.

So maybe it's not only about sex... but still. Getting married so you'll have an easier time getting a job is creepy, too.

[labratsolo]

I don't have any issues with the idea of marriage, though I don't think it's for me because I don't see the point in it - it's just a ritual and makes no changes about your relationship that aren't simply in your mind and therefore could be made anyway. But if it's what people want, then I see no problem with it.

 

However, the Christian institution of marriage is patriarchal and designed to preserve the hierarchy of God --> Man --> Woman. Marriage needs a revamping to remove the patriarchal elements (such as the father "giving away" his daughter, white and the lifting of the veil as representing the bride's purity/virginity, and so on - after all, it was originally economic, an exchange of property between the bride's father and the groom). And Christian marriage also defines itself as between a man and woman, so it excludes homosexuals.

 

But as I said, once marriage is reformed, then I don't see a problem with it, although I do agree with labratsolo that our society pressures young people into seeing marriage, particularly for women, as some sort of end-goal and top priority, and pressures them to reach this goal as soon as possible. :angry:

 

This actually brings up something that I hadn't really thought very much of, which is the concept of "submission," and "purity," which only ever seem to apply to women. Throughout most of my Christian life, these ideas were almost a given for me, and being a man they sounded perfectly reasonable. In my post-Christian life, viewing only how these things have affected me personally, I hadn't given much time to examine how this ideology affects women. A few years ago I had friend who refused to date a girl on the grounds that she wasn't a virgin. At the time, it seemed kind of silly to me, I figured as long as she was "living right" now, it didn't matter what was in her past. I knew another girl who was treated very poorly because she was so open sexually, and I know I wasn't very much of a friend to her during that time. What saddens me now is that I would have been considered one of the more "open minded" of my circle of friends and acquaintances, and I really wish in hindsight that I had done more help her and other female friends of mine who were struggling with these issues of "sexual purity." Looking back, I see how much more this seems to affect women than men, even in my own past relationships.

[Dianka]

So, when I imagine myself single again, I imagine meeting a guy in a bar, and sleeping with him the same night. And then I freak thinking, how would I know if they guy has AIDS or anything dangerous.

 

Yes, I am very scared of most worldly things. You can take the woman out of the church. But taking the church out of the woman is a whole different ordeal.

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Lorena

 

I've never watched Sex and the City, but I'm pretty sure whatever the show portrays sex as, it's nowhere near reality. Let me guess: an endless supply of handsome lawyers/doctors/brokers. Frequent dinners at classy places. Playful conversation. Step outside on a Saturday night to the local meat market. Drunk slobs grinding and getting wasted. It's these times that we become *selective* about who we sleep with. For most people it naturally works itself out to a comfortable number of sexual partners.

 

* Oh also, I should have realized you were a "nun" and not a nun. hehe

[godlessgrrl]

I kind of think I possibly understand what you're talking about, labratsolo, maybe perhaps.

 

I had an ex that I've posted about a lot here, and if I understand what you're talking about, I saw some of it with him, too.

 

He belonged to a Foursquare church and was a fundie-mentalist to the core. It became clear over time that the kind of marriage he wanted was the one he thought was "godly", which meant a Pauline, man-in-charge, have-as-many-kids-as-god-gives-you marriage. Friction happened between us as this came out, because I am SO not that way about marriage and relationships.

 

I think he became less and less comfortable being with me as time progressed and I refused to be the godly woman he thought I should be. I also think he was looking for an excuse to leave me, and it came when he had a conversation with one of his close friends - who, believe it or not, was even more hardcore fundie-mental than the ex was.

 

The night the ex dumped me, he had a convo with the aforementioned friend, M---, who told him all about the wonderful and godly relationship he was having with the woman he was engaged to. Seems M--- spent a good long while telling the ex all about the wonderful ways in which god was changing him and his fiancee so that they'd be more pleasing to Him and pleasing to each other, and how perfect and wonderful and powerfully godly their relationship was, and how perfect and wonderful their marriage was going to be. Then M--- spent some time telling the ex how inferior his relationship with me was, how displeasing to god it was and I was, and how nothing good would ever come of being with me. Then he told the ex to "get rid of this one so that the Lawrd can find you a godly woman.

 

So the ex promptly called me up and did so.

 

The most confusing thing was that initially, the ex came across as this warm, loving, caring, passionate person; I was damn near convinced (at least to start) that we were made for each other, and the truth is that he seemed to think so to. We had a lot of the same interests, thought the same way, enjoyed the same things, finished each other's sentences, and really seemed to be on the same wavelength, enough that we both acted like marriage was in the works. Until, of course, reality interfered.

And he stopped lying about who he was, and stopped pretending that he actually wanted to be with me.

 

Except honestly, I'll confess that there's still some part of me that wonders if there was some deep part of him that did want to be with me, he just ended up fleeing because that was what his religion told him to do, and he was so insecure and so scared of hell and the rest of it that he did what was safe and secure instead of what was true. But, well, he did leave, so we'll never really know.

 

The point of it is that there was this image of marriage and relationships that I think he thought he had to live up to, regardless of whether or not it was really genuine. His friend M--- had it and the ex didn't, and M--- made it clear to him that he never would have "it" as long as he was with me. And honestly, I'm not entirely clear what "it" was - what that "godly" image of marriage was that M--- sold to him and he bought into, hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and copy of Angling Times. But it was still there, this perfect image of this perfect godly thing, that all good little fundies needed to strive to achieve, but of course only if their gawd led them there.

 

It's weird, though, because I think that if the ex didn't believe that gawd was telling him to get married, he wouldn't do it. And I think that was true of a lot of the people he knew too. They all seemed to have this "I won't do anything unless gawd tells me to" kind of passive attitude about life... yet, oddly enough, it always seemed like gawd told them to do exactly what they wanted to do anyway. Funny how that works...

 

In any case I ended up getting rejected by a misogynist, porn-addicted fundie-mentalist because I was "ungodly". Go figure. In any case I sure wasn't marriage material for his ilk. I just didn't fit the bill: divorced, sexual, not a virgin when I married, swore, drank, had done drugs (well, smoked pot, BFD), was/is pro-choice, pro-birth control, and just generally Not the Sort of Girl We Want to Take Home to Mother ™.

 

But whatever.

 

Marriage is weird. I learned more about what marriage is for when I got my divorce than I ever learned before I actually *married*. All the pre-marriage counseling, all the books and advice, all of it was about cultivating a relationship with another person, not about the legal and business end of it. And you really don't need the legal and business stuff if the relationship is what you're interested in. So when I got married the second time it was for the legal stuff: the tax breaks, the pension stuff, the medical and estate issues, and so on. The relationship was in place and working well already.

 

Anyway I'm rambling. I kind of get it though. I think. Maybe.

[labratsolo]

 

The most confusing thing was that initially, the ex came across as this warm, loving, caring, passionate person; I was damn near convinced (at least to start) that we were made for each other, and the truth is that he seemed to think so to. We had a lot of the same interests, thought the same way, enjoyed the same things, finished each other's sentences, and really seemed to be on the same wavelength, enough that we both acted like marriage was in the works. Until, of course, reality interfered.

And he stopped lying about who he was, and stopped pretending that he actually wanted to be with me.

 

Except honestly, I'll confess that there's still some part of me that wonders if there was some deep part of him that did want to be with me, he just ended up fleeing because that was what his religion told him to do, and he was so insecure and so scared of hell and the rest of it that he did what was safe and secure instead of what was true. But, well, he did leave, so we'll never really know.

 

The point of it is that there was this image of marriage and relationships that I think he thought he had to live up to, regardless of whether or not it was really genuine. His friend M--- had it and the ex didn't, and M--- made it clear to him that he never would have "it" as long as he was with me. And honestly, I'm not entirely clear what "it" was - what that "godly" image of marriage was that M--- sold to him and he bought into, hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and copy of Angling Times. But it was still there, this perfect image of this perfect godly thing, that all good little fundies needed to strive to achieve, but of course only if their gawd led them there.

 

It's weird, though, because I think that if the ex didn't believe that gawd was telling him to get married, he wouldn't do it. And I think that was true of a lot of the people he knew too. They all seemed to have this "I won't do anything unless gawd tells me to" kind of passive attitude about life... yet, oddly enough, it always seemed like gawd told them to do exactly what they wanted to do anyway. Funny how that works...

 

In any case I ended up getting rejected by a misogynist, porn-addicted fundie-mentalist because I was "ungodly". Go figure. In any case I sure wasn't marriage material for his ilk. I just didn't fit the bill: divorced, sexual, not a virgin when I married, swore, drank, had done drugs (well, smoked pot, BFD), was/is pro-choice, pro-birth control, and just generally Not the Sort of Girl We Want to Take Home to Mother .

 

 

Gwen, I can kind of relate in a way, not to your story, but maybe to the mindset of your ex. When I think about who I am now and who I was then, I don't think I was any less caring, or warm then than I am now, but the difference now is that I made a commitment to thinking for myself. When you go through life thinking that your purpose is to live for someone else, it can really screw with your perceptions of who you think you're supposed to be and what you actually want out of life.

 

When I look at the kind of woman I would want to be with in my old life versus who I would want to be with now, all I see in the old life is boredom and a desire for control, whereas now I have learned to appreciate the unpredictablity in someone else, their different viewpoints and mindset.

 

Thing is, I think I am the same person and wanted that before too, but the pressure to "live for God" was just too strong. I guess what I am saying is that I don't think I was missing out on the warmth and compassion, but I was definitely lacking in mental strength. Perhaps the same is true of your ex.

 

I'm really thinking this through as I type though, and the more I think about it, the more misogynist this way of thinking seems. I guess warmth and caring are also context-sensitive, and giving warmth and compassion in an unequal setting is still more about control than equality or love. I'll have to think this out a little further

[Mnemosyne]

This actually brings up something that I hadn't really thought very much of, which is the concept of "submission," and "purity," which only ever seem to apply to women. Throughout most of my Christian life, these ideas were almost a given for me, and being a man they sounded perfectly reasonable. In my post-Christian life, viewing only how these things have affected me personally, I hadn't given much time to examine how this ideology affects women. A few years ago I had friend who refused to date a girl on the grounds that she wasn't a virgin. At the time, it seemed kind of silly to me, I figured as long as she was "living right" now, it didn't matter what was in her past. I knew another girl who was treated very poorly because she was so open sexually, and I know I wasn't very much of a friend to her during that time. What saddens me now is that I would have been considered one of the more "open minded" of my circle of friends and acquaintances, and I really wish in hindsight that I had done more help her and other female friends of mine who were struggling with these issues of "sexual purity." Looking back, I see how much more this seems to affect women than men, even in my own past relationships.

 

Definitely. And young women receive conflicting messages from society. On the one hand, they're branded "sluts/whores" and "easy" if they sleep with multiple sex partners (terminology I'd like to get rid of completely, or at least get rid of its negative connotations) - or if they put effort into making themselves look desirable. On the other hand, they're "frigid" and boring if they refuse to have sex, and "ugly" or "dykey" if they don't put effort into looking appealing for men . Women are supposed to be simultaneously pure and very sexual beings. It's a lose-lose situation, really.

 

I see the same sort of contradiction in Christianity: femininity is supposed to be both pure/virginal and creative/fertile (which of course involves sex). Another contradiction involving the role of women in Christianity - we're supposed to obey our husbands because of our inferiority, yet we are held responsible for our own actions/sins.

 

What's a girl to do?

[LosingMyReligion]

Talk about difficult, I'm gay. According to my former faith I am an abombination destined for hell, even though I haven't had sex(well, a few close occasions)with a guy yet.

 

My sexuality was the primary reason I started reevaluating the whole Christian thing. I was as good a christian as anyone...YET, I wasn't good enough because of something that I have no control over.

 

Most people I know get married because that is what they are supposed to do, according to "The Word."

 

I can't count the number of people my age(early and mid 20's)who are already married and having multiple kids. Most of them didn't goto college(infact, I am only the second person in my family to goto college), and haven't explored anything...Grant it, they all slept around quite a bit before settling down and being "GOOD CHRISTIANS."

 

And I never got the whole "Living in sin" thing. If you are under the same roof sharing the bills and kids I would think you are committed. It is maddening...

[Mnemosyne]

My sexuality was the primary reason I started reevaluating the whole Christian thing. I was as good a christian as anyone...YET, I wasn't good enough because of something that I have no control over.

Fortunately for me, I became an atheist shortly before I realised I'm bisexual, so I never had to deal with that. My family is none-too-happy with me, of course, and it's obviously difficult to think they see my desires/behaviour as perverted. They've already tried to convince me that I'm mistaken about being bi, that sometimes one mistakes strong feelings of friendship for romantic attraction, and so on.

 

What makes it difficult is that if they weren't opposed to it on religious grounds, I could hope that they might eventually come to fully accept it - but because they see it as against their religion, it's very unlikely that they'll ever change.

[non conformist]

It's very hurtful to know that fear and guilt can make parents decide they can't accept their child because of their sexual orientation. I just came out to my mom a few months ago, but my circumstances were kind of unique. i was engaged and I have a five year old, but all the while knowing that I had more than an attraction towards women. I was unhappy in my relationship. I was unhappy in every relationship! And although my ex and I shared similar beliefs, our roles were still defined by the "model" the church has put together. Then I fell in love; HARD! with the woman I'm with now. My mom had a very difficult time, and hurt me so much that I thought I couldn't have her in my life. Hell was mentioned often; so were the words dirty, immoral, disgusting, bad mother (the most hurtful),etc.

 

But I made a clear distinction. My mom would never speak to me that way; she would never hurt me that way. But her brainwashed religious mind would. It didn't come from her, but the church's and the bible's stance on my lifestyle. I pointed this out to her, and I guess it sunk in. She's as good as she's gonna be about it and that's enough for me. I have never been happier, but like Mnemosyne I didn't have to struggle with this during my fundy days. I remember being attracted to women at the time, but just brushing it off as temptation set off by Satan

 

You know, you go on your journey and it's hard and you feel alone....but I wouldn't trade my life right now for all the glory of heaven. My eyes are open, my soul is at peace, and I am exactly the person I choose to be.

[Mnemosyne]

I remember being attracted to women at the time, but just brushing it off as temptation set off by Satan

Ditto. Repression...

[non conformist]

I remember being attracted to women at the time, but just brushing it off as temptation set off by Satan

Ditto. Repression...

 

 

Time wasted!