Eponymic Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I remember being attracted to women at the time, but just brushing it off as temptation set off by Satan Ditto. Repression... Not just repression, but one of the major causes for sexual dysfunction & sexual crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labratsolo Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 I'm thinking now about a friend of mine, she is one of the few Christian friends who has been willing to listen to me through my deconversion without trying to convert me back... She is a devotee to the "God has a special one for me" school, and everytime she gets involved with a guy, she turns it into a total mess because her expectations far outpace the reality of where the relationship is at. I try to tell her not to focus so much on marriage, but the only times she does is when she goes through periods where she claims to be done with dating, so that she can "listen to God, and get herself "right." She has so much to offer, but is so ingrained with this line of thinking. I really want to tell her outright that there is no happiness down that road, but at the same time, she has been so supportive of me in not trying to win me back, that I guess I feel obligated to let her find her own conclusion. All I can do is continue to tell her how much happier I am away from the faith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 She is a devotee to the "God has a special one for me" school, and everytime she gets involved with a guy, she turns it into a total mess because her expectations far outpace the reality of where the relationship is at. I try to tell her not to focus so much on marriage, but the only times she does is when she goes through periods where she claims to be done with dating, so that she can "listen to God, and get herself "right." I have a friend like that also - I am so happy she did find the man who has now become her husband and looks like he will give her a happy marriage for the rest of his life. She was a devotee of the same school, and so was I when I was Xian. After all, as a Xian, Gawd had a plan for everyone, no matter how much life evidenced otherwise. She had her heart broken several times because she placed so much faith and so many high hopes in God's Plan that when the superstition failed to materialize, she was crushed. I was also the same; I trusted that Gawd wouldn't let me down, that there were all sorts of signs present to indicate that God's Plan was at work, and everything would work out. Needless to say, I had to take responsibility for my own life when my heart kept getting broken by the same woman, no matter how I interpreted what I thought were clear signs of Gawd's desire that she and I be together. Only when I got rid of her and decided to start doing my own planning did things actually improve. Now I am engaged to a wonderful young lady who has never done a thing to hurt me. I don't think she and I are made for each other, but I don't think anyone is made for each other. It's up to us and us alone to roll up our sleeves and make a relationship work, and decide whether or not a relationship is working or not. And it's better that way, because she and I can live realistically and enjoy each other for the human beings we are, not waste our hopes on fairy-tale plans by fairy-tale gods. And I've never been happier with a woman in all my life. I know she will make a fantastic wife one day because she works at being a good woman, like I work at being a good man. No more will I give up control to phony-baloney sky daddies - life works so much better without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosyne Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I'm thinking now about a friend of mine, she is one of the few Christian friends who has been willing to listen to me through my deconversion without trying to convert me back... She is a devotee to the "God has a special one for me" school, and everytime she gets involved with a guy, she turns it into a total mess because her expectations far outpace the reality of where the relationship is at. I try to tell her not to focus so much on marriage, but the only times she does is when she goes through periods where she claims to be done with dating, so that she can "listen to God, and get herself "right." She has so much to offer, but is so ingrained with this line of thinking. I really want to tell her outright that there is no happiness down that road, but at the same time, she has been so supportive of me in not trying to win me back, that I guess I feel obligated to let her find her own conclusion. All I can do is continue to tell her how much happier I am away from the faith... I keep thinking of possible arguments but every time it comes down to the fact that the Bible promotes marriage as the end-goal, so it makes sense that if she's trying to obey God, she would strive for marriage. I can't think of a way to get past that unless she deconverts (which obviously you can't force). I suppose you could argue that marriage as an end-goal for relationships is a cultural product of Biblical times (well, it exists today too, but still, it's a cultural product) and ask why choose that over other aspects of the Old Testament like eating certain kinds of meat, (some argue) female inferiority, observing the Sabbath properly, etc. But if she takes a more fundamentalist or literal stance on the Bible it'll be difficult to convince her otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labratsolo Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 I keep thinking of possible arguments but every time it comes down to the fact that the Bible promotes marriage as the end-goal, so it makes sense that if she's trying to obey God, she would strive for marriage. I can't think of a way to get past that unless she deconverts (which obviously you can't force). I suppose you could argue that marriage as an end-goal for relationships is a cultural product of Biblical times (well, it exists today too, but still, it's a cultural product) and ask why choose that over other aspects of the Old Testament like eating certain kinds of meat, (some argue) female inferiority, observing the Sabbath properly, etc. But if she takes a more fundamentalist or literal stance on the Bible it'll be difficult to convince her otherwise... I wouldn't necessarily call her a fundamentalist, but I would call her a literalist (not really sure about the difference between the two, but it seems like there is one). She is really more of what I would call an "emotional" Christian. Her relationship with Christ is intensely personal, and she relies especially on prayer to get herself through tough times. This emotional connection has given her a unique amount of compassion, but it also causes her to hang onto her Christianity more tightly than most other people I know. After all, without God, who would she turn to for support? While she's not necessarily questioning her beliefs, I will give her credit for learning more self-reliance. The thing is, that pot-of-gold of a perfect Christian marriage can be a pretty tough illusion to let go of, especially for one so reliant upon God for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosyne Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 The thing is, that pot-of-gold of a perfect Christian marriage can be a pretty tough illusion to let go of I think it's tough not just because it's a Christian thing but also because it's what our culture tells women should be their goal, what will make them happy, what the purpose of life is, etc. So if you want to change her mind, you're not only battling religion but also culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labratsolo Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 I think it's tough not just because it's a Christian thing but also because it's what our culture tells women should be their goal, what will make them happy, what the purpose of life is, etc. So if you want to change her mind, you're not only battling religion but also culture. Yeah, this is true... I think maybe as we continue to have conversations about marriage I can open her to new ideas without feeling the need to "change" her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I'm feelin' ya on the cultural conditioning women go through about marriage and sexual purity. Bein' a woman and all... It was sure humiliating to be dissed by a porn addict for being, among other things, sexually impure. Ahh, the irony... For the record, one of the most radical things I figured out was that I don't need a man/husband for my life to be complete and fulfilling. (I married my current spouse because I wanted him around, not from hoping he'd fulfill my dreams. That isn't up to anybody but me.) That might be something to offer to your friend, the idea that marrying really isn't necessary at all for a full life. I think it's something women don't realize, because as girls so many of us are taught that finding The Right Guy is the best thing in life, something to strive for over anything else. F that. I strive for money and notoriety, baby. The man thing is icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorena Rodriguez Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 F that. I strive for money and notoriety, baby. The man thing is icing on the cake. Way to go sister! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingGlass Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Because I've spent so much of my life around Christians, the church, etc., for a long time my only reference for dating and relationships has been Christian, heterosexual couples, the majority of which ascribe to marriage as the be-all and end-all of human existence. Now that I am out of the Christian lifestlye, I find myself adjusting to a new set of rules and expectations regarding dating, sex, sexuality, etc., while at the same time, many of my friends continue to marry and carry on with a Christian set of expectations... I find myself congratulating people around me for engaging in something that I know they're not ready for, and which I'm not even sure that I believe in for myself, while at the same time experiencing things that very few people I know can even relate to... Does anybody know what I'm talking about? Myself, I got married when I was 19. I thought for sure that was God's will, since me and my boyfriend seemed to have so much in common and really wanted to be together. We met online. He was an african student studying in Germany and I was in California, so after six months of instant messages, video mail, letters and air-mailed gifts he came to see me for christmas. the thing that really scared me is that we would lose control of ourselves and end up sleeping together (Being separated for six months will do that to anyone I'm sure.) So when he came for christmas, we got engaged and were married the following march. Looking back, I regret not thinking things through more. I thought that since I prayed about it and felt no objection from God, it would be okay to get hitched. It's been a year now and if I could do things over I wouldn't have gotten married. My husband is a very strong, loving and hard working person but we are so different culturally and maturity-wise (he's seven years older than me) that this first year has been an epic struggle to get along with each other. Not to mention I am no longer a practicing christian like he is. Most Christians will say that they don't endorse getting married for sexual reasons, but I think that that is at the back of a lot of young people's minds when they get married. Now I have a long-time friend who is getting married to a guy she has known for three months who comes from Guatemala. I'm pretty sure it's at the back of her mind too, even if she doesn't realize it. I want so bad to just tell her "no, don't do it" because of everything I've been through, but few people would have the guts to do so. I'm almost definitely sure that my marriage isn't going to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labratsolo Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Myself, I got married when I was 19. I thought for sure that was God's will, since me and my boyfriend seemed to have so much in common and really wanted to be together. We met online. He was an african student studying in Germany and I was in California, so after six months of instant messages, video mail, letters and air-mailed gifts he came to see me for christmas. the thing that really scared me is that we would lose control of ourselves and end up sleeping together (Being separated for six months will do that to anyone I'm sure.) So when he came for christmas, we got engaged and were married the following march. Looking back, I regret not thinking things through more. I thought that since I prayed about it and felt no objection from God, it would be okay to get hitched. It's been a year now and if I could do things over I wouldn't have gotten married. My husband is a very strong, loving and hard working person but we are so different culturally and maturity-wise (he's seven years older than me) that this first year has been an epic struggle to get along with each other. Not to mention I am no longer a practicing christian like he is. Most Christians will say that they don't endorse getting married for sexual reasons, but I think that that is at the back of a lot of young people's minds when they get married. Now I have a long-time friend who is getting married to a guy she has known for three months who comes from Guatemala. I'm pretty sure it's at the back of her mind too, even if she doesn't realize it. I want so bad to just tell her "no, don't do it" because of everything I've been through, but few people would have the guts to do so. I'm almost definitely sure that my marriage isn't going to last. An ex-girlfriend of mine is now in a pretty similar situation (I'm not really in contact with her, but we have mutual friends who occasionally inform me of what's going on with them). While we were dating, the issue of "control" over our sexual desires was a constant cause of conflict, even though we never actually had sex. On top of that, I wasn't really sure about marriage and those two factors more than anything ended up killing the relationship. She married the very next person she dated, but now finds herself in an unhappy situation. It's too bad you feel that way about your marriage, maybe you could talk to your friend about it in such a way that you're not saying "don't do it" outright, but rather relaying your experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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