for you christians who dare come here.

[been borg again]

You have my respect for having the courage to come here to the Dark Side.

Although it only looks Dark to those who have Blind Faith.

 

I am going to take this opportunity to vent and be honest, I have spent 10 years being nice and polite to christians, And spent 25 years of my life as a christian, growing up in the ministry/ church/ private school.

 

I know most christians have good intent, but your theology makes me sick and discusted.

 

Your theology of Hell perverts the very essence of the concept of Unconditional Love and warps it into Eternal Hate.

 

You demonize and dehumanize Humans in the exact same way Nazis did to justifiy the suffering of the Holaucaust.

 

How could you ever be happy in Heaven, knowing right behind the curtian, there are billions of souls in eternal suffering? How can you sing praises to GOd in heaven knowing, that God could end the suffering of your non believing loved ones with an effortless snap of the fingers.

 

When your in Heaven having a nice friendly picnic with GOd ,are you going to ask GOd about your sweet and kind grand daughter who happens to be burning in eternal pain and suffering? Or are you going to avoid the subject with God as not to ruin a perfectly blissful picnic? Yea GOd would be so kind as to remove all memory of your lovely grand daughter in hell... that way God will be sure you never bring up the akward topic. That way every one will be happy and blissful at your picnic while you whip out your harp and dedicate yet another song to your wonderful loving God, and you say God doesnt want Robots? Whatever. Your theology twists the concept of God into a Roman Emporer who wants to be surrounded by Yes-men and false praise.

I say CHRISTIANITY is the religion that BLASHPHEMES and perverts God

CHRISTIANITY is the religion the BLAPHEMES and perverts LOVE

 

What kind of screwed up concept of Holiness demands the expression of human suffering of so many in Hell?

 

Your theology makes Hitler seem like saint.

 

When the universe is dead and long gone and there are 100 or 1000 souls in hell for every 1 soul in heaven, how could you ever praise a god, who created so much NET suffering? Its better God never made man to begin with then. If you think it was all worth it, and you wake up every morning in Heaven laughing in bliss, then you are the most selfish person I have ever met. Pure EVil Selfishness.

 

All you christians in love with the blood-redemption of the cross,

tell me what is so romantic about Human Sacrifice?

 

Your idiotic theology of Heretitary Transmission of Sin makes me sick. Yea when a infant is born and needs her mother, and the mother needs her child to need her... and they feed off each other.. uhhuh that really shows that Humanitys natural and primal instinct is Evil. whatever. your twisted theology makes beautiful things ugly and ugly things beutiful.

 

 

Your theology had 1500 years to make the world better place and it failed miserably. Humanist and Rationalist Society has only had a few hundred years to make the world a better place and it has already cut child mortality significantly.

 

Where was God, where is the proof that prayer works when half of all children died before adulthood until only 150 years ago? ( in developed countries of course)

 

Would you agree that Infant/child Mortality rates is the defining indicater of Quality-of-Life?

 

Your grand 1500 year expereiment is a complete failer, why dont you open up your eyes and see the data?

 

You christians who seek revenge with a " I told you so" attitude concerning final Judgement and Armageddon.. you people make me sick with your Pride and Selfishness

 

Yea, sit there and demonize people like Hitler and Pol Pot, while you sit and sing praise songs to a deity who throws most of Humanity into the Cosmic Eternal Nazi Death Camp... .. slap the word HOLY & JUST on it, all of the sudden it becomes magically GOOD... you make me wanna puke my guts out.

 

Is it still unconditional Love if it doesnt last forever?

uh huh. whatever. talk to the hand.

 

Christianity will evolve or die.

 

and please do all you can to support Creationism,

it is the strongest enemy of Christianity, talk about a Braindrain on the Christian Institution.

 

You support Creationism not even aware that you are helping kill christianity by doing so. For every person Saved, 10 more are rejecting Christianity because of Creationist Nonsense.

 

 

You ever stop to consider maybe it is the Agnostics and Atheists who HONOR and RESPECT God ( if there is a God) by refusing to define and suspending belief of God due to lack of objective evidence?

I cannot even comprehend the wave function of a single Photon, yet most of you christians feel you know GOd?!?!

You ever think maybe God ( if there is God) doesnt really need your Ignorant and simpleton comprehension of WHo-God-Is?

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

[nightflight]

Right!

[Vixentrox]

Sums up a lot of my feelings.

[Reach]

I say CHRISTIANITY is the religion that BLASHPHEMES and perverts God

CHRISTIANITY is the religion the BLASPHEMES and perverts LOVE

I agree. If there is a god, I hope he is nothing like the Christian Heinz 57 variety.

According to Nancy Leigh DeMoss, "Only Christians can truly love."

 

Welcome to Ex-C! You ought to fit in nicely.

-Reach

[Lens]

AMEN!

 

I cannot understand how xtians can't realize these great points you bring up. Blind faith and brainwashing are powerful things.

 

Thanks for your post!

 

Lindsay

[Caretaker]

I might throw in that Christians are accomplishing absolutely nothing if they try to quote the Bible to us.

 

"The Bible says this..."

"The Bible says that..."

 

Well, we don't consider the Bible to be accurate. There is no real proof that it is completely true. I might as well grab a Star Trek book off my shelf and tell you that "Spock said this..." or "Kirk said that..."

[white_raven23]

I might throw in that Christians are accomplishing absolutely nothing if they try to quote the Bible to us.

 

"The Bible says this..."

"The Bible says that..."

 

Well, we don't consider the Bible to be accurate. There is no real proof that it is completely true. I might as well grab a Star Trek book off my shelf and tell you that "Spock said this..." or "Kirk said that..."

 

I think we should all start doing exactly that!

 

Maybe, just maybe it would get the point across that you can't use a book to convert someone who doesn't respect or believe in the validity of the book in the first place.

[- AUB -]

Of course many are rejecting hell now as they are catching up with secular morality and are even claiming there never was any reason for such a belief, xtian revisionism strikes again. Seriously sometimes the liberals annoy me more than the fundys these days.

 

Good opening "BBA".

[Caretaker]

 

 

I think we should all start doing exactly that!

 

Maybe, just maybe it would get the point across that you can't use a book to convert someone who doesn't respect or believe in the validity of the book in the first place.

I tell you, Star Trek is Federation-inspired and infallible! If you don't accept James Kirk as your personal savior, you will go to the Borg Collective!

[SOIL]

...

I cannot even comprehend the wave function of a single Photon, yet most of you christians feel you know GOd?!?!

You ever think maybe God ( if there is God) doesnt  really need your Ignorant  and simpleton comprehension of WHo-God-Is?

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bba,

 

Concerning the wave function of a photon, neither can I, and that's one of the reasons I think it would be cool if someday maybe I could get closer to actually knowing God.

 

Yes, I have thought that God may not need my comprehension of who God is. I am very grateful though that God may be willing to allow me to make some progress toward comprehending at least some of who God is!

 

I suspect if I ever get to even gain any ground toward the goal of 'knowing God', it will most likely only happen because God wills such, and is kind enough to help me (in the matter of directing this stubborn old "free will" thing toward God rather than against God).

 

I think God does will it - and I think maybe that has something to do with why a guy called "Jesus of Nazareth" showed up on earth's scene a couple of thousand years ago - and perhaps that is also why I sense this "Holy Spirit" in me (which can at times, be rather annoying, for instance when I feel guilty about not doing something that I somehow mysteriously know I ought to do).

 

Concerning the Holy Spirit though, it is also interesting that His presence can provide a "peace that passes all understanding".

 

Sure wish my mind were able to wrap around all of this stuff in a more objectively demonstrable (scientific like) manner - but it just doesn't always happen.

 

Kind of like a light switch though, I do still use 'em - even though I don't completely understand - all the specifics regarding why they seem to be very useful when I want some light.

 

-Dennis

[nightflight]

Your religion has done people much harm, Soil. What do you think about that?

[- AUB -]

Soil, all you acheived with that is to lower interlectual level, if all you have are “feelings” and non-sensical theology then what helpful contribution have you made?

There’s no reason to think it is more than emotions when you “feel the spirit” without reaching that conclusion before you even start, by believing, which is circular reasoning. So no process of thought or evidence can substantiate religous emotionalism as being anything but chemicals, which is all it ultimatly rest on. So why bother, when we have made it clear we need more than your emotions, we need reason, facts and moral decency.

[SOIL]

Your religion has done people much harm, Soil.  What do you think about that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nightflight,

 

I don't like that fact - it makes me feel very sad.

 

Now having said that, I suppose there are a couple of other things that I want to say.

 

..........

 

Stalin (that mean old ex-christian)'s anti-religious views appear to have "done people much harm". Here is what I think about that:

 

"I don't like that fact - it makes me feel very sad".

 

..........

 

Jesus (though he supposedly had ample opportunity and power available to do so) chose NOT to cut off the entire head of the servant of the high priest, (e.g. by using the sword used by Peter after he only managed to sever the servant's ear).

 

Perhaps (least in part) that is why I think my religion has done people much good. Here is how I feel about that:

 

I like that fact - it makes me happy.

 

-Dennis

[nightflight]

Does the thought of BILLIONS (or one) writhing forever in eternal pain make you sad? Or do you, as they do on christianforums.com think that the residents in hell chooooose to be there?

[SOIL]

Does the thought of BILLIONS (or one) writhing forever in eternal pain make you sad?  Or do you, as they do on christianforums.com think that the residents in hell chooooose to be there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nightflight,

 

"Yes"(Q1) and a qualified "no"(Q2).

 

-Dennis

[Merlinfmct87]

nightflight,

 

I don't like that fact - it makes me feel very sad.

 

Now having said that, I suppose there are a couple of other things that I want to say.

 

..........

 

Stalin (that mean old ex-christian)'s anti-religious views appear to have "done people much harm".  Here is what I think about that:

 

"I don't like that fact - it makes me feel very sad".

 

..........

 

Jesus (though he supposedly had ample opportunity and power available to do so) chose NOT to cut off the entire head of the servant of the high priest, (e.g. by using the sword used by Peter after he only managed to sever the servant's ear).

 

Perhaps (least in part) that is why I think my religion has done people much good.  Here is how I feel about that:

 

I like that fact - it makes me happy.

 

-Dennis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So your sole defense is that "atheists do it too?"

 

Does the fact that those same murderers are still being defended? That their actions were in the "overzealous pursuit of Truth"(TRUTH?!?!)

 

And you still have the gall to say the words of Jesus can save... the words of Jesus are what started it...

 

Amazing how quickly that christian moral superiority turns evanescent...

 

You have my respect for having the courage to come here to the Dark Side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was just discussing this with a good friend... there are some members who really kill NIN for me...

 

Then Troy shows up and I remember why I like them...

 

Merlin

[SOIL]

So your sole defense is that "atheists do it too?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Merlin,

 

I am not now (nor have I ever, albeit I have only my very fallible memory to rely on here) trying to provide a "defense" for any Christian who does "much harm" to other people.

 

When I hear that has happened (either by some other Christian) - and especially when I learn that I am one of the Christians who has done "much harm", I repeat - it makes me feel very sad.

 

I have not been convinced however, that (soley) by becoming an ex-christian, I would then be less likely to do "much harm" to other people.

 

(as to most of the remainder of your post, I guess I am just not smart enough to "get it").

 

I may come back later and see if any of it makes more sense to me.

 

-Dennis

[Clearview]

(as to most of the remainder of your post, I guess I am just not smart enough to "get it").

 

I may come back later and see if any of it makes more sense to me.

 

-Dennis

 

I didn't get it, either.

[Totallyatpeace]

"I was just discussing this with a good friend... there are some members who really kill NIN for me...

Then Troy shows up and I remember why I like them...

Merlin"

 

 

I know what you're talking about.

[Merlinfmct87]

Merlin,

 

I am not now (nor have I ever, albeit I have only my very fallible memory to rely on here)  trying to provide a "defense" for any Christian who does "much harm" to other people.

 

When I hear that has happened (either by some other Christian) - and especially when I learn that I am one of the Christians who has done "much harm", I repeat - it makes me feel very sad.

 

I have not been convinced however, that (soley) by becoming an ex-christian, I would then be less likely to do "much harm" to other people.

 

(as to most of the remainder of your post, I guess I am just not smart enough to "get it").

 

I may come back later and see if any of it makes more sense to me.

 

-Dennis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I haven't blown you off... I'm trying to find a way to explait what I mean... My post made perfect sense to me!

 

I probably just need to get some rest.

 

"I was just discussing this with a good friend... there are some members who really kill NIN for me...

Then Troy shows up and I remember why I like them...

Merlin"

I know what you're talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I had hoped you in particular would see that... *hug*

 

Merlin

[Totallyatpeace]

NIN speaks boldly of their hatred for Christian “fundies”. My guess is that Merlin agreed (s) with the lyrics in their music.

 

However, every once in a while someone comes along that makes him rethink whether the lyrics are actually a true representation of Christianity.

 

The again......someone else comes along that again............makes him question......someone that really ticks him off with their legalistic fundie views.

 

 

And he turns back to NIN.

 

Am I close?

 

TAP

[Panther]

I tell you, Star Trek is Federation-inspired and infallible! If you don't accept James Kirk as your personal savior, you will go to the Borg Collective!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

HA HA HA HA!!!!! And may they forever live with eternal cling-ons!!!!

[Merlinfmct87]

Your very close...

 

NIN speaks boldly of their hatred for Christian “fundies”. My guess is that Merlin agreed (s) with the lyrics in their music.

 

Agrees... people do find happiness in their own self imposed slavery and blindness. I've seen the emperical proof as the saying goes.

 

However, every once in a while someone comes along that makes him rethink whether the lyrics are actually a true representation of Christianity.

 

Here's where you were furthest from the mark... If I thought a song meant one thing one day and another thing the next I'd go nuts... the hard part was understanding the fundies and the people who are only level-headed and compassionate.

 

The again......someone else comes along that again............makes him question......someone that really ticks him off with their legalistic fundie views.

And he turns back to NIN.

 

What I finally came up with is it is not a accurate representation of christianity... it is an accurate representation of fundamentalism. Weather it's a Christian who says that we must convert all the homo's and atheists to make a 'pure' world or a wiccan who says that all christians are out to re-create the burning times, or a strong atheist who says that entertaining the mere notion of a 'god' is a capital crime...

 

Happy slaves... the whole lot of them.

 

Am I close?

 

TAP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Amazingly so...

 

Your question really cristalized my view with your post TAP... thank you.

 

Merlin

 

Side note: This isn't related to my (obscure) questions to SOIL...

[chefranden]

bba,

Concerning the Holy Spirit though, it is also interesting that His presence can provide a "peace that passes all understanding".

-Dennis

 

It is most likely that you are programed to believe that a feeling of peace is the holy spirit, when there is no evidence its existence. You ignore the fact that feelings of peace happen in the presence of certain brain chemistry that can be laid out on the table before you.

 

I can suppose that the sun fairy pulls the sun up each morning and claim that fact that the sun comes up each day is proof of my hypothesis.

[IAm_Lucifer]

I can suppose that the sun fairy pulls the sun up each morning and claim that fact that the sun comes up each day is proof of my hypothesis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Suppose? Are you suggesting in any way that the sun fairy may not exist? Do you know the consequences of doubting the sun fairy's power? REPENT! If you keep on that path you will end up in Hellven, where you will be forced to watch Jerry Springer 24 hours a day for the rest of eternity!