Are We Yahweh's Personal Plaything?

[SBeeland]

By now I think its obvious I don't believe in Yahweh, but I've wanted to see what others thought about this question and/or if it crossed anyone's mind when/if they were a christian.

 

Anyway, Yahweh (let's just pretend he's real for a moment) created everything basically "just because he wanted to" and he doesn't really need us. His "love" is conditional and we have no right to judge him since he's God and we are just his creation. This universe isn't really important because our real purpose is to join God in the afterlife.

 

So now for the question, what's the point? What would Yahweh have to gain by any of this? I can't see this being explained in any other way than just "Yahweh made us because he wanted to," like he's just a poor plot device in a cliche-ridden, poorly written fantasy novel. It pretty much makes everything meaningless. It makes God sound like some evil genius that created his own personal world with living things that exist just for his own amusement. More than anything the question I'm really asking is, how in the name of reason can anyone that sits and thinks about it more than a second really and truely believe something so f'king stupid?

[pandora]

My husband (when Christian) used to say things like this in response to the questions I posed that were similar to yours... he would say that God is God and deserves glory and the creation exists to give him glory. End of story. I never really bought that idea, but it is a common belief. I more saw God as wanting other creatures to experience life and love more than to give glory to Him.

[Lycorth]

That's basically how it goes, and if you read the Babble and listen to enough preachers, that's the unavoidable truth. We are here only for some god's amusement, and that's probably how this alledgedly "loving father" can so easily dispose of us in an eternal stove if we fail to tickle his fancy. We are just here to please him, and the moment we fail to do that, we're tossed in the trash heap with the rest of the junk (Heathen Gods, satan, the demons, dead babies, gays, etc).

 

Really makes you despise Xianity, doesn't it?

[snookums]

If I was creating a make believe god creature...I think I would make up the same shit. Its ever so clever to make the poor plebs always wondering if they are doing well or being good enough..I see it as a big cat and mouse game.

 

Gawd Almighty is ......a veeery jealous pussy who doesn't like to share his 'mousies' or sheeps....with anyone and wants nothing but preening and adoration....call it 'glory' if you like.

 

The Devil or Satan to me...is the same deal..Gawd Almighty playing dress ups.

 

Jessuss...(the sook)...well he's how come Gawd Almighty creates evil in order to 'send his only begotten' to save the world..(.fuck off) - If that's not a cat and mouse game I don't know what is...

 

forgot to mention....isn't it funny how many xians start speaking on behalf of gawd almighty once they get to know him....

[Mythra]

Funny how utterly absurd God becomes once you are removed from the whole thing.

 

Here is something I've thought about. What do you suppose God does on Sunday mornings when churches all over the world are singing songs about him and worshipping and praising him.

 

I imagine him all big fat and happy on his throne, saying "oh yes. more. no, no - don't stop. give me more.... worship me - yeah, that's it, that's it .. tell me how great I am... more - more- oh yeah .. keep it up .. one more verse.. c'mon, just a little more...

 

Kinda like a dog that won't let you stop petting his head.

[aynalhub]

It's sad how easily a philosophy of "the world is as it is, pain and all, and I must embrace it or I am rejecting life itself" gets distorted into "suck the anthropomorphic puppet-master's dick whether you like it or not"

 

Yuck.

[Guest Emerson]

I really hated it when people said that we are made for god's own glory, I didn't care about being made for god's glory or living my life for his glory. It just sounds empty to me when people say that their doing somethng for the glory of god.

 

I think that there is a higher being out there or maybe there's more than one. But I don't think that it has revealed itself to us and I don't think there is one right way to worship or know it. That's why we have various religions that claim to be "the way, the truth." I don't think that anyone can have a relationship with God or whatever.

 

I sometimes wonder if whoever is out there, thinks we're just ridiculous simply because of the way we squabble with one another over which religion is right, and how we impose our beliefs in religion and other beliefs on others. Maybe if we were created then they took a chance on the human race and like pandora, I think that God wants his creatures to enjoy the gift of life. If indeed there is one.

 

I do believe that life is a gift. I don't know why I'm here, I don't know where the human race has come from or if we were created on earth by a being or beings, all I know is I'm here, I'm alive and I will live my life. What else can I do? Not much beyond that, I'm not God, I'm not the powers that be, all I can do is live my very best and be human. That's all.

 

My husband (when Christian) used to say things like this in response to the questions I posed that were similar to yours... he would say that God is God and deserves glory and the creation exists to give him glory. End of story. I never really bought that idea, but it is a common belief. I more saw God as wanting other creatures to experience life and love more than to give glory to Him.

[jasonwhatever]

Mankind really is God's plaything; we are all pawns in God's universal chess game. The Scriptures, in essence will tell you this, to the Glory of God, without actually citing God as responsible for the negative implications that this has-- namely, that we are, in many ways, victims of God. For example, God Said in His Word that He raised up pharoah and the egyptians that He might show forth His Glory in destroying them. Yet, He holds them responsible for being deceived and evil.

Another example is that if a person does not accept The Gospel, Jesus says it is because the person is evil "and will not come to the light, lest his deeds be reproved." On the other hand, though, The Bible Says that if a person does not believe The Gospel, it is because God has not willed for them to believe. "Unto you it given to know the mysteries of The Kingdom of God. But unto them it is not given to know the mysteries of The Kingdom of God." And Jesus Himself Taught that He intentionally spoke parable so that they would not understand. Then when they did not understand, He condemed them for it. Really, based on The Jewish Law that God required of Israel, it is no surprise at all why the Jews rejected Christ; according to their own Law, given by God through Moses, any man making claims of being God and showing another way to worship was in disobedience according to the instructions that God gave. Yet, God condems them for it.

Another pawn in God's universal game is the devil. If one doesn't hear and believe The Gospel, it is because the person is evil, the devil stole it out of their heart, and God has not willed for them to believe. But, if a person does believe The Gospel, it is thanks to God's Mercy "and it is the gift of God, not of ourselves, lest any man should boast." God is to be glorified for the good things, but the bad things are because of evil people's wickedness, and the devil.

 

God also created that there would be evil and sickness and sin upon the earth. Obviously, since God is all-powerful and all-knowing, seeing and appointing the end from the beginning, all the suffering and disease and sin that is in the world is because God appointed and made it so. Evil can not have just created itself. God created the problem, while making it be that the devil is really the one to blame for sin and disease being in the earth, so that He could then undo the works of the devil and bring in an everlasting kingdom of Heaven, where God will wipe away all tears from all eyes and all will be perfect. That way, He will be praised all the more forever for His "goodness."

 

At the same time, the wicked will be burning in hell forever, because they are evil and spurned God's Grace. And this the people of the new kingdom will all peer into with horror, and say "praise be to God Almighty." Isiaiah Teaches this somewhere....(they will peer upon those who transgressed against Me."

 

The Scriptures also says that men are like ants, none understanding even their own goings. It acknowledges that we are all totally ignorant, not understanding why we do the things that we do. But, if we obey, it is to God's Glory, for "it is He Who willeth it and worketh it in you to do His Will."

If we rebel, it is because we followed our own lusts, and we are damned for it.

 

Mankind definitely is a pawn in God's chess game. I truly don't think that it matters to God whether you or I burn in hell forever. He's as ready to bless as to curse, and given the fact that Jesus Christ Said that Heaven is a straight gate, and "few there be who find it," yet hell is a broad way, and "there be many who go in thereat," it is obvious that God seeks to stress, and will be known to all, that He is absolutely Glorious and Holy. If many go in at the broad way to hell, it is because God appointed it. He could easily have made people not have sinful natures, fleshy desires, He could have made that sin never entered the world, He could have made that all are automatically saved at birth, etc. Instead He makes that even few among the righteous shall be saved. "If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the sinners fall?"

 

For "It is a frightful thing to fall into the hands of The Living God."

 

And, as an aside, I do believe that The Bible is The Word of God; I believe that seeming contradictions were put there as a form of those parables, in essence, that Jesus was telling when He was on the earth to intentionally confuse people and make them not believe. God makes that only a person who truly seeks Him absolutely diligently will find Him. And I believe that the vast majority of people will eventually be saved, after a long period of intense pain in hell to refine and purify them. However, I believe that those who once knew The Truth, and received The Holy Spirit, who fell away, will never be saved again; they are those for whom "the mist of darkness is reserved forever." This is blasphemy of The Holy Spirit. "It is impossible to renew them again to repentance, seeing that they crucify to themselves The Son of God afresh...." "lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from The Living God." "If you forsake Him, He will reject thee forever." This is what happened to Saul, for example. And I also believe that those who hold The Truth of God in a lie, such as the popes and obvious false teachers like benny hinn, will never obtain forgiveness either.

[Lycorth]

Jason, you're a nut. You come on here and posit that your god doesn't care whether or not we burn in Hell forever, then try to convince us that your god is all good all the time and we should worship it? You certainly understand the Xian concept of "God" and what your god is like - which is the disturbing part.

 

Your phony god is a worthless son-of-a-bitch and you clearly have problems, since you accept such a demonic, anti-human dogma. Get help.

[Guest Emerson]

I'm sure xtianity is making Jason very PARANOID and act irrational and impulsive, with one minute believing he's damned and the next hating his religion, and wanting to abandon it and then coming back to it. This is all part of the cycle of paranoia that exists in religion.

 

It makes people act like wackos! I know 'cause I acted that way back when I was a xtian and people thought that I needed help really badly.

Ah Jason I get where your coming from, but trust me you're not damned, the devil isn't out to get you, and you won't be struck down by god.

[Lycorth]

Once Jason realizes that Xianity's not the oldest and hence most authoritative religion in the world and that it's just a cut and paste job cult that arose from a religion (Judaism) that was once a polytheistic pagan cult, he'll be on the road to recovery.

 

He just needs to realize there are other paths out there, healthier and safer ones. It isn't Xianity or damnation, not by far.

[Astreja]

Mankind really is God's plaything; we are all pawns in God's universal chess game.

Oh, I so can't resist this...

The future changes as we stand here, else we are the playing pieces of the gods, and not their heirs, as was promised.

(Cookies and mead to the first person who correctly identifies whence I nicked that quote.)

 

Embrace the uncertainty and the mortality, Jason. That's what life is all about. As the Greek poet Pindar put it, "My soul, do not seek immortal life, but exhaust the realm of the possible." And there is a lot of possible out there, let me tell ya...

[Guest Emerson]

Once Jason realizes that Xianity's not the oldest and hence most authoritative religion in the world and that it's just a cut and paste job cult that arose from a religion (Judaism) that was once a polytheistic pagan cult, he'll be on the road to recovery.

 

He just needs to realize there are other paths out there, healthier and safer ones. It isn't Xianity or damnation, not by far.

 

I know, actually I think it all started with Zoroastrianism. Anyhow as long as Jason is here and as long as he's unsure of his faith, then he will say what's on his mind where his religion is concerned.

I wish that he knew that its really not that bad once you go through deconverting. There's nothing to be afraid of. But that's something that he has to do for himself. Honestly, Jason you probably would not be here if you weren't thinking of decoverting already. Stick around, ask your questions but don't be so paranoid.

 

The world did not end when us exchristians quit xtianity and walked away. The sun is still shining, and we choose to do what we want with our lives, and how to live them. You can make it as good or as bad as you want it. Just because we walk away does not mean we are all atheists. Some of us are atheists, agnostics, deists, and others have various beliefs. Some even believe that there are many paths to God. Its really up to you.

 

The cosmos aren't against you, the world isn't against you, no one is against you. You're the only one stopping yourself from enjoying your life and from doing what you want. Maybe it would help if you quit reading the bible, quit being around xtians, quit going to xtian websites and forums at least for a while. See what its like. Take a break.

 

I suggest you read this article, "I walked away...now what?"

 

http://www.losingmyreligion.com/essays/nowwhat.html

[Ouroboros]

In my life there is only one God, me. In your life there is only one God, you. Simple as that. We are all gods in our own lives. Not omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient or benevolent. But still, we are our own gods, making our own actions count. My will be done, and my kingdom I'm working on.

[jasonwhatever]

Well, I know that my position seems ambiguous if you have not read my previous posts. My situation, I feel, is a bit different than that of a lot of people on here. Specifically, I believe The Bible to be The Word of God, and I believe that Jesus Christ is very God in the flesh. However, I, like frankandhonest, feel that I have committed the unpardonable sin. That is, while I still believe, I am damned anyway.

 

Now, according to Scriptures, if a person left the flock, then it is because they were never truly saved. "They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they no doubt would have continued with us. Now they are gone out that it might be manifest that they were not all of us." Whether you agree with The Scripture or not, that is for you to decide, knowing your own heart. And my suspicion is that this is indeed true for a lot of people who leave the fold. This what I understand to be the meaning of "many are called, but few are chosen." This is my personal belief; if you disagree, that is fine. I honestly don't think that I could ever not see The Bible as The Word of God; in fact, I think it all completely harmonizes if one truly seeks to understand it and has truly sought God diligently.

 

I think that some people on here are offended because I'm not willing to make the all-out renunciation of God. I cannot do this, because it is not what I believe. Just like you are offended by the thought of continuing to believe and follow Christianity, for you think that to do so would be living a lie, for me to say that I don't believe that The Bible is The Word of God would also be a lie.

 

Now, that being said, I will say this: In many ways I wish that The Bible is not true, that I'm not really damned. I wish I had never been saved, that I'm not damned now for falling away. You see, I didn't choose to renounce God officially; He cast me out. There really is more to being a Christian than attending Church, making a confession and even obeying The Commandments; one also has to be chosen by God. If you don't like that fact, then take it up with God, because I didn't make the rules.

[Ouroboros]

Ah. Now I starting to understand what you're trying to say. You believe still, but you believe you comitted the "unforgivable sin", so you're condemned against your wishes and will.

 

I'm going to have dinner now, but I will think about this for a bit...

[jasonwhatever]

I wanted to expand on my last post just a bit...

 

Tonight when the sun was gonig down, I thought "how could anyone truly believe that there is not a God?" I think that there surely is, and in reality, Christianity makes the most sense of all religions.

I'm not trying to convert; I'm stating what I believe. I truly wish that I could believe that there is no God. But I fail to be able to understand how it could in any way be possible that the sun rises and sets according to definite seasons-- both daily, nightly and with the four yearly-- without it being ordered by God.

[Lycorth]

There really is more to being a Christian than attending Church, making a confession and even obeying The Commandments; one also has to be chosen by God. If you don't like that fact, then take it up with God, because I didn't make the rules.

 

I did take it up with your god; I dismissed him as a phony and chose to follow my heart and mind instead. I worship other gods now, and grovel before none. I am free to do as I choose, and so are you.

 

Your god did not cast you out - your god does not exist. You cast yourself out. If you want to finish the job, then renounce Xianity. Otherwise, why believe in a god whom you are convinced will damn you anyway? That's like a woman in an abusive relationship still trying to love and serve the man who beats her daily.

[jasonwhatever]

Well, I believe that if a person were to see the horrors of hell, they'd gladly serve God, even if that meant misery in this life, just that they might escape that most miserable state in the next.

 

Yes, Christianity does rule by fear. And there's a reason: because God is to be feared. God set down these rules, not me.

[Guest Emerson]

Um I thought that belief was the basis for being accepted by God. Romans 10:13

 

You know what Jason, do whatever you want but don't get angry at us because we're doing our best to help you in whatever way we can.Yes some of us are a really frustrated because you act somewhat paranoid about your state with God and your eternal future as you have so often said.

 

That's what I see anyway. Anyhow I don't know how you have to be chosen by God but if you're not, hypothetically speaking then you can't do anything about it. I think that you come from extreme fundamentalist thinking. I mean, I went to church and I was taught that anyone who believed in Jesus Christ and was "saved" would go to heaven, that it was God's gift to mankind. If that doesn't give you peace then I don't know what will.

 

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. Let's take another example. Geniuses and extraordinary talents, I'm talking about people who are extreme geniuses and who have extreme talents like that for singing. Why are some people born that way? Were they "chosen" by the fates, God or the powers that be?

 

Who knows?!! But those of us who aren't get quite good at abilities, skills and manage to have great careers despite lacking extreme genius and extreme talent. That same thinking could be applied to the nonreligious.

 

Well, I believe that if a person were to see the horrors of hell, they'd gladly serve God, even if that meant misery in this life, just that they might escape that most miserable state in the next.

 

Yes, Christianity does rule by fear. And there's a reason: because God is to be feared. God set down these rules, not me.

 

Why would you want to worship a god like that? Maybe you should fear god's greatness and not his fire and brimstone.

 

Eh I don't care about being Yahweh's playing, if anything Yahweh has left me alone.

[jasonwhatever]

The Bible was a dangerous thing for me, because I was always a free-thinker. How this translated for me was not that Christianity is untrue; rather it translated into more of a deep thought about it, and a conclusion that most people in Christianity are wrong in their approach and many specific doctrines. I've always been very analytical.

[Guest Emerson]

So Jason what really is your story? How did you come into believe in christianity? What made you convert to christianity? I don't believe that I've heard your story.

[jasonwhatever]

...sorry, I didn't mean to send reply yet...

 

But, like I was saying, so when I read things that Jesus said, I took them totally literally. For example "take no thought for your life, what you shall eat, nor for your body, what you shall put on, for the life is more than meat and the body is more than raiment." I took this literally; but what I saw in churches was the opposite: they speak of the future, worry with clothing to outdue the Jones' family, and they do not live in denial of materials and in patient waiting for The Lord, as is Commanded that "the world will rejoice, but you will mourn." "He that saves his life shall lose it; he that loses his life shall save it."

 

Also, Jesus alludes to this process. He tell of people in various states of obtaining Salvation. Some seed fell on the rock, some on the wayside which didn't bear any fruit to perfection; some fell on thorns; others fell on good groud and sprang up and brought forth fruit.

 

It is those who come to completion, receive The Holy Spirit, and then fall away who are the called, the chosen, and the damned. "Remember Lot's wife," not looking back. "Take heed lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from The Living God."

[Guest Emerson]

Jason put your bible down and walk away from it. Just walk away, like that Kelly Clarkson song says. Walk away. Take a break from it. Ah well I've done and said all that anyone can. Only you can help yourself at this point Jase.

[willybilly30]

lol i guess you think jesus walked on water, moses parted the red sea, the snake in the garden spoke lol. jason what ever!!!!