"Where Are Their Women?"

[pitchu]

Don't know if I'll send this letter, but I had to write it. It's all true. Only the names, as they say, have been changed...

 

Dear Megan,

I heard that when you were about seven you asked your mother, “Where are their women?” This question, evidently, was the beginning of the end of your opportunity to share in the jubilance and sorrows, outlooks and insights, and all that is true of the couple-of-over-thirty-years known as Trent and Larry.

 

Since you’re now ten years old and they’re in their seventies, it’s likely they won’t live long enough for you to reach an age your parents would think suitable and/or safe enough to allow you to know them. Knowing them might have brought an easily unfolding answer to your question, but as things are now, I doubt you’ll remember them or even that you once asked that question about them. So I’ve decided to tell you that you did ask, and to attempt an answer. I believe I have a special sort of right to do so, in this case, and it is also my hope that you’ll someday be considered age-appropriate enough to read this letter.

 

Their women are all over the place. There are the women whose homes have the beautiful objects originally purchased by Trent and Larry, or whose homes display these things on what often turns out to be an unintended permanent loan. Then, of course, there are women of Mexico, whose goods these fellows buy, and many women of Mexico to whose children the guys annually bring cartons of gifts they’ve spent the year collecting.

 

One woman framed paintings for them in their shop and made money that way. Another woman they sort of adopted, along with her husband and kids, because they so delighted in her spirit.

 

There’s a woman whose famous actor husband did quite badly by her, and after the divorce she found she needed a man to count on for everyday help and friendship, so Trent has always been there for her.

 

I don’t know where Extremely Famous Actress was when she called Trent to come help her out of a jam in another country, but, of course, Trent went there and did that.

 

Where was the courageous little woman whose years and years of caring for her ailing father and whose physical deformity had kept her out of the mainstream of life? She was with Trent, who was at her bedside as she, herself, failed and died. And his good best buddy woman friend, too, had Trent by her side for years of travelling, watching Lakers games, and for the final stage of her life.

 

Larry’s mother was where he had arranged that she spend decades in happiness and comfort – in a house purchased by him, until, after her death, he and Trent moved into that house and have made it their home. Where are the women of Larry’s family? Around him, adoring him, with a lot of excellent cooking going on between him and them. Trent’s mother and sisters, too, had in him a son and brother who always saw to their needs.

 

It’s hard to answer “Where are their women?” if you’re talking about American women who counted on the military service of men like Trent and Larry in World War II. Their women are in fifty states.

 

I guess the reason I’ve said more about Trent’s women is that I’ve known him better and longer because, for a few years, I was his wife. But he’s really a happier and more complete partner with Larry because it’s right. It’s right in a way that can’t be made wrong by other people claiming it’s wrong. It’s right in the way those two sort of famous boy penguins in that zoo know it’s right for them to have chosen each other. (When the zookeepers gave them an egg to hatch, by the way, they were out of their penguin minds with joy, and all reports are that they’re excellent parents.)

 

Trent became a parent to your mother when she was five. So you know where another woman is: she’s in your home. And I’m sure your mother struggles mightily to understand why Jesus doesn’t want to have you and your little brother in the company of Trent and Larry. If you could be in their company, you would someday be able to answer your own question, “Well, I know where one of their women is… she’s right here standing in my shoes!”

 

Love,

Your grandmother

[Reach]

Tears of joy, Sis. Tears of joy in you. Tears of grief, for the loss of the others.

 

That is one beautiful letter, Pitchu. A priceless treasure.

 

I hope little Megan will get this mail from her grandmother, someday. I believe she will understand.

 

You are a gift, a most rare one, to humanity.

 

-Reach

[Lokmer]

Pitchu...

 

Wow.

 

Truly amazing.

 

Thank you, very much, for sharing this.

 

-Lokmer

[pitchu]

Reach, Lok,

 

Thanks so much, you two.

 

My daughter had explained to "Trent" that there was no way she could answer her daughter's question... thus the children's removal from the guys' lives.

 

I don't know how many more fresh charismatic heartbreaks are in store for those she professes to love.

[Lokmer]

I'm so very sorry, Ellen.

Hopefully your granddaugher will be lucky enough to keep in contact with a woman of intelligence, honor, sensitivity, and love as long as possible. That's what grandmothers are for, isn't it?

((((((((((((Pitchu)))))))))))

 

 

 

-Lokmer

[pitchu]

Thanks, Lok.

 

Unfortunately, my contact with those kids is limited to my sending them little gifts, notes, every few weeks. I'm hoping that just this much will jar their memories should they grow to an age where they want to stop swimming in charismatic carbolic acid or (Heaven forfend!) come to a realization that they're gay, and need somebody to turn to.

 

It's about waiting, as is the case for many people who've had loving connections cut short by fundyism.

 

I wanted to post the letter to show just how far-flung, far-reaching, is the hurt caused by these monstrous precepts.

[Guest MalaInSe]

My daughter had explained to "Trent" that there was no way she could answer her daughter's question... thus the children's removal from the guys' lives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Brings tears, pitchu.

 

I can't imagine keeping my daughter from anyone who might love her. Your granddaughter's deprivation breaks my heart.

 

Ren

[Fweethawt]

Pitchu,

 

I've always felt extremely uneasy when it came to thoughts

about the relationship between you and your daughter. Aside

from feelings of compassion toward you for having to endure

that situation, I also gained a sense of dread.

 

I dread the possibility that my sons may one day be swept

away from the real love of their dad and into the imaginary

love that religion offers.

 

I really do hope that one day, when she matures, that your

granddaughter will come to know and understand the woman

that you are.

 

.........................

[Loren]

Absolutely beautiful.

Pitchu, I saved that letter to my files. Could I suggest submitting it to Dave for inclusion in his archived articles? Could I have your permission to perhaps submit it sometime in the future to one or more periodicals? I would hope that more people than just us would have a chance to see it.

 

Hope I'm not overstepping here.

 

Loren

[pitchu]

Mala,

 

I feel exactly the same way. A child can never have too many people loving her/him. This situation is complex in that my daughter still goes to visit the guys (I guess she loves them, huh?), but her priest husband has never been to their home. As I said in the letter, I'm sure she struggles mightily with this one.

 

Fwee,

 

I entirely understand that this non-relationship with my daughter causes most people who care about me to be at a loss for words. But remember that the usual circumstance is generationally reversed -- and it would be unlikely that one of your sons would marry a woman who'd later become a nutcase charismatic Episcopal priest... the Episcopalians who'd allow her into the priesthood wouldn't be the branch that issued a fatwah on that beleagured gay New Hampshire bishop. Just remember it's rare, and keep being the great humanistic loving father that they'll want to emulate.

 

Loren,

 

You have my grateful permission to bring the letter to any venue where you think it might cause people to reflect and consider. These aging gents shouldn't have to endure this abysmal rejection with no good whatsoever coming out of it. Thanks, Loren.

[Loren]

Thank you, dear lady. Portland Oregon has a quite good gay-oriented free newspaper called Just Out that makes it down to Eugene. I don't know how wide their circulation is, but I sure see it all over town here. I once sent them a short letter encouraging readers to make an effort to eradicate the right wing propagandistic misnomer, "gay rights" from their vocabularies and call it what it is, civil rights. My main point was that when any social issue comes down to equal protection under the law, it is, by definition, a civil rights issue. My secondary point was that the common use of "gay rights" created an immediate "us/them" schizm in the mind of the hearer which detatched him from the social obligation for fairness and justice he would feel when the issue is clearly about all of us.

 

Just Out printed my letter very graciously and I'm sure they'd be happy to print yours. Also, my dad writes weekly articles for the Springfield News, and he may be interested in using what you wrote.

 

Loren

[Purple Rhino]

...  My main point was that when any social issue comes down to equal protection under the law, it is, by definition, a civil rights issue. My secondary point was that the common use of "gay rights" created an immediate "us/them" schizm in the mind of the hearer which detatched him from the social obligation for fairness and justice he would feel when the issue is clearly about all of us...

 

Loren

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Loren,

 

I agree it is so important how things are framed in the media. It is civil rights! not gay rights. It is not Same Sex Marriage it is Marriage Equality!

 

Slowly the message is getting across.

 

PR

[I Broke Free]

Thank you Pitchu for emailing me about this post; I can’t believe I overlooked it.

 

I have started on several replies this morning but ended up deleting them all. Somehow none of them seemed an adequate response to your post. I suppose my response is hindered by my lack of emotion. While reading your unsent letter to your granddaughter, I did not become angry or saddened. Instead, I just experienced a deep sense of resignation. Resignation is hard to put into words. It is an apathetic emotion that does not lend itself to heartfelt responses.

 

I will not wallow in this state for very long. My emotions will return and give me the necessary will to fight the injustices I see in your post. But for now I can only think of a short by poignant question myself.

 

 

 

 

Where is their compassion?

[Purple Rhino]

My first reply didn't post kept getting errors. So I'll try again.

 

pitchu,

 

What a fantastic love filled letter! I hope that someday soon this child is able to know the joy and love of everyone who holds her dear and precious. It breaks my heart that it is not only accepted but pushed by self professed family values proponents.

 

I gratefully am an exception to this bigotry. Having not only the courts grant me parental rights for my partners three children, but also welcomingly accepted as a parent by his family. We only have one granddaughter so far and I couldn't imagine not spoiling her and being called Poppy.

 

I feel for everyone involved in your situation and applaude your wisdom and selfless love.

 

I'm not known for being speachless, but I just don't have the words to truely express my heart on this. I hope you get the gist.

 

 

PR

[Reach]

Where is their compassion?

IBF, I'm sorry to say, but based on the evidence we have, based on the evidence we see, based on the things they say and do, they have none.

 

This Bible verse comes to mind and I would like to lay it before these hard-hearted people. I John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

 

I doubt many Christians would try to deny that the principle there and found throughout Christian teachings certainly applied to more than just material goods.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Thanks Pitchu for sharing this.

 

As my nieces and nephews are growing older (6 - 12 right now), they are beginning to ask questions about my relationship with my partner. I am afraid that their parents - my brothers and sisters-in-law - will also feel the need to cut me out of their childrens' lives for religious reasons. I'm dreading that day.

 

With your permission, I may use your letter to share with them the hurt that such shutting out can cause.

 

TF

[pitchu]

All these great responses, and the expressed complexity of feeling and knowing and dreading and being resigned -- all this is so deeply meaningful to me. Thank you all for such considered and considerate words.

 

I'd answer you each individually right now, but I just got home from my second cataract surgery (which seems, at this early point, to be successful, too), and I'm still a little drugged up.

 

TF, you certainly may, anyone may, use this letter in whatever way it might help.

 

I'll return later to say words I know perfectly well but can't seem to type...

[pitchu]

Okay, the legs are still a little wobbly, but since I don't type with my knees...

 

Loren,

 

It sounds good to me, the places you have in mind for the letter. I'm grateful that you'd think to do this.

 

It's also such an important point that you and PR discuss: How should these issues be framed? Much hostility can ensue from pushing for that which is named as though it were a special privilege. Everything should be done to insure that terms can be pan-applied, especially if that's the fact of the matter, which it certainly is. Rights are rights, arising from the axiomatic, if, to some, quaint, notion that a human being is a human being. It needs to be stressed in every campaign, article, discussion.

 

IBF,

 

Resignation is, indeed, hard to put into words. Especially when you know it's going to be a fleeting reaction and that the eagerness to bash one's head into the same old brick wall will soon resurface. I'm just glad that Reach was so able to tackle that "Where is their compassion?" question of yours, because this is at the root of much that disturbs me with my daughter. When I look up from my desk, I see the photo of her little whitebread innocent 2-year-old face, and I remember her kindness and keen empathic behavior when she was little, and the wordless question always forms... "What Happened?!"

 

PR,

 

I get more than the gist, New Friend, I get how intense is the attachment to the children in your life. I get the relief and gratitude that those who could potentially crush those relationships have chosen, instead, to just let love have its way.

 

I have a memory of "Megan's" little brother, at about age three, taking "Trent's" hand and simply unceremoniously guiding "Trent" from his chair and the grown-up discussion and taking him down the hall of the little boy's new home to show "Trent" all the treasures in his room -- every book, toy car, shoe, shoestring. I followed them, and watched and listened as "Trent" soberly examined and commented on every item as though he were an appraiser at Antiques Road Show.

 

"What Happened?!"

 

TF,

 

I was actually thinking of the nieces and nephews in the lives of you and IBF when I decided to post this... thinking about the long-term relationships the two of you have with your fellas; imagining twenty or thirty or forty years from now, how outrageous it would be if your families suddenly decided to sever your ties with grand-nieces and grand-nephews.

 

----------------------------

 

Where is their compassion, indeed!

[Merlinfmct87]

I feel like a tresspasser typing this, this is a family matter I don't know anything about.

 

But that letter is... very very captavating to say the least. I gather that it's written for a grandchild Pitchu isn't allowed to visit.. as well as some other relatives...

 

I must admit, my relatives aren't the best at all, so my natural disposition is towards the restricting parent... but it also showed me that things are never as they seem... 'family' guarantees nothing.

 

Try to get as much contact as you can... I think that grandaughter needs it.

 

Merlin

[pitchu]

Try to get as much contact as you can... I think that grandaughter needs it.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I need to be reminded of that. Sometimes it seems hopeless, but I need the prodding.

 

You're not at all a tresspasser, Merlin. Thank you for caring about me, and about my granddaughter. It's the greatest perk, isn't it, that comes from being a member of our mutual family here at Ex-C.

[Merlinfmct87]

I need to be reminded of that.  Sometimes it seems hopeless, but I need the prodding.

 

You're not at all a tresspasser, Merlin.  Thank you for caring about me, and about my granddaughter.  It's the greatest perk, isn't it, that comes from being a member of our mutual family here at Ex-C.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This place has floored me so many times with people's concern and acceptance it's a wonder I'm not a rug yet...

 

Getting back to the matter at hand, I will prod you till you leak. I was lucky enough to have my mum be the freethinker and the nutcases on the outside... and they still tried to do a lot of harm. They would have suceeded if mum and me weren't so tight and honest with each other.

 

She needs it just as much(hell, more) more than you do.

 

In the mean time a big bear hug to you... and your granddaughter... I'm proud to call you a sister and her a niece.

 

Merlin

[Onyx]

Hope the granddaughter's coming round...

[Fweethawt]

SG,

 

Her granddaughter is fine.

 

I'm not going to explain the situation.

I'll leave that up to Pitchu if she wishes

to disclose that information.

 

Don't worry, she's fine.

[pitchu]

Thanks for your concern, Silly G. Fwee is right, granddaughter's fine. Just totally immersed in fundyism by her mother, who is my daughter who grew up humanistic then fell down the rabbit hole (like in "Jesus in Wonderland").

 

It's because of my anguish over my daughter and her two kids that I originally came to the old original Ex-C. Occasionally something happening within her family surfaces and provokes me to share it here. That's what this thread is about.

 

 

____ ____ ____ ____

 

And thanks again, Merlin.

[I Broke Free]

IBF,   

 

Resignation is, indeed, hard to put into words.  Especially when you know it's going to be a fleeting reaction and that the eagerness to bash one's head into the same old brick wall will soon resurface.  I'm just glad that Reach was so able to tackle that "Where is their compassion?" question of yours, because this is at the root of much that disturbs me with my daughter.  When I look up from my desk, I see the photo of her little whitebread innocent 2-year-old face, and I remember her kindness and keen empathic behavior when she was little, and the wordless question always forms... "What Happened?!"

 

----------------------------

 

Where is their compassion, indeed!

 

The death of the living

 

That’s what it feels like, doesn’t it Pitchu? Yes, you can still talk and write to them. They respond in the most predictable fashion, and you keep up the charade of having a “relationship.” But it isn’t real.

 

Their life is like a big beautiful red balloon. Every part of it presents to the world exactly what they want you to see. But it is hallow and dangerously over-inflated. You are the “rose” Pitchu; fragrant, beautiful, earthly, but you have those dangerous thorns! Mustn’t get too close!