Marriage Struggles....

[lothartx]

I had a rough night. Woke up about 3:00a.m. and the wife was not there, she was sleeping on the couch.

 

Some quick background:

Me:

We met when she was 19 and I as 22. I was already married, but completely unhappy. I married way to young. Met my current wife, thought I was in heaven. She seemed so perfect for me. I was not a christian at the time and never really new anything about it on an adult level. I ended up divorcing wife number one. Never marry your high school sweetheart when your from a tiny little town in BFE.

Wife:

She has been a Christian since about 15 and is 39 now. She was a xtian when we got married, not a fundie, at least I didn't notice. We drank, had fun, felt I could talk about almost anything, great sex, saw all kinds of movies, lived together before we got married, though that did bother her a bit. We had normal conflict, but I was happy and content overall. A liberal xtian? Yes, I would say that fit. Right before we got married I tried to follow the bible, read some of it, went to bible classes (Southern Baptist), prayed. I said the magic words, got baptised, etc. I thought, if my wife represents what a christian can be like, how bad can it be??? Must be something to it.

 

Flash ahead 15 years.... She's a fundamentalist, takes the bible literally, Genisis and all. I on the other hand have totally given up on religion. I've seen to much garbage to just "have faith". You all know about what I mean. She knows I don't believe in god anymore or that Jesus was a real person.

Now, if my wife represents xtianity. No f'ing way do I want to be part of that cult.

OK, back to last night,

 

I asked her what was wrong.... got the cold shoulder, "Nothing..." Ok, I thought to myself, here we go again. Soo...after trading some barbs I find out the trouble is a book I bought called "Honest Man's Pilosophy" Jovial Athiest. Look it up, a great deal has been published on his web site. It's not perfect and is lacking in sources for his claims. But I do agree with the honest thinking and trying to keep a clear thought process.

The wifes opinion is; it is about "hating christians and christianity" "calls all christians stupid". "It's all about hate". Whatever... She didn't want to hear my opinion or ask what I thought or offer any details to about what she disagrees with. The only dialogue is "Xtianity is the only way".

 

We ended up on theology. My intent was to remain calm and try to give concise answers to her questions. I was not emotional or angry. I told her I felt shut in a "spiritial cage" and I was looking at all sources for information. I was exploring my world view and trying to find out who I am. (I actually never got that far, I got cut off by more christian love, ie. anger, hostility, never did finish a thought with out some sarcastic comment) I stated how I believe the earth in billions of years old, yet she is teaching our kids ONLY fundamental christian creation views. (she homeschools) I'm not allowed to "convert" my children to athiesm. I have never said I would or even tried. I just want them to have a rounded education. Now I'm and evil athiest. Yes, she basically stated I'm an evil athiest. She was extremely hostile and basically the argument boiled down to I enjoyed "feeling superior" becuase I never got mad (which I didn't). She said I only read books that support my point of view. Which is true. I have a hard time grinding through most christian versions of science. I do, however, never censor her, I go to church almost every Sunday. I'm not living in my own world.

Of course, if I point out that she has never read a book that challenged her belief or thoughts in 15 years she really gets a head of steam up.

In the end, I agreed to read the "Case for Christ" by Strobel. I almost said I have already skimmed it and thought it was just more christian B.S. But I'll read it, but I also plan on verifying his claims and looking for oposing view and see which view holds more weight. I will investigate both views and both sides and see where the poponderance of evidence lies.

 

The down side is I'm almost ready to give up on my marriage. I don't see how I can be happy. I feel my wife is pushing my buttons and trying to close me out. That way she can be matyr becuase her evil athiest husband left. The best times of my life, the first 10 years of our marriage, she has decided were wrong and she "away from god".

 

How long do I keep trying and hoping the "old wife" comes back? The only reason I'm still here is because we have two great boys. If we had no kids, I'd leave. It's not that I don't want to love my wife and try to have a relationship. It's that our relationship hinges on me being a xtian. I tried it, it failed. I tried pretending, but I couldn't lead a double life, it was killing me on the inside. The price I'm paying for being me is I will lose my family.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure I "love" her in the way a married man should love his wife. I want to, but it's so hard......

[snookums]

I don't feel as if I have any right to comment on your post...we don't know each other at all....without that it seems anything I'd write would disrespect you.

I don't know.......I feel very touched by your honesty and openess and wish you the best in life. I think you already have your own answer to this very painful situation but haven't done anything about it yet.

 

May I say that all marriages go through some rough patches - people change and grow - some couples grow in the opposite directions. Its sad - we grieve the loss of the old partner as well as the grief we feel for the loss of a future together. It sounds like your wife is begining to force the situation by sleeping on the couch etc.....and wants to have complete control in your relationship. ...... I guess if she believes she has 'g awd' on her side....she feels justified.*sigh*

 

take care of yourself - I don't think its healthy as you say....to loose yourself completely to any relationship.

 

P.s. I've experienced emotional blackmail & its not very nice.

[jrmarlin]

Wow, Lothartx. That was a very heartfelt, powerful story and I am sorry to hear you are struggling in your marriage this way. I have been there - trust me. And I know it sucks the big one, especially when your wife has resorted to name-calling and acting as if your children need to be shielded from you. I definitely can understand your pain, confusion and doubt of your love for her.

 

My situation was different because I was younger and did not have any children with my ex-husband but I was right where you are now - the only difference was I (the chick) changed. He was a see ya once in awhile christians.. meaning he didn't go to church but he would claim he was spiritual. When I went through my change in spirituality, I saw him more and more as a psuedo-spiritualist who really was more like a christian than I ever wanted to be married to. We got married when I was 20 and he was 22. Much too young to be pursuing marriage. We didn't even know who the fuck we were as adults - what we wanted out of life - or what we wanted to be when we "grew" up....so we had no business doing that whole deal. It was doomed from jump street.

 

Now to your situation: As we grow older, we change. You're in your early forties, right? And that's such a scary time because you tend to start looking at things a little differently than when we were younger and we thought we would live forever. Our mortality sets in as friends and acquaintences start passing away but under normal circumstances. It is not always a tragic circumstance like when we were in our twenties and thirties.

 

That being said, people change, evolve. You looked at Christianity from an objective standpoint -- from the outside looking in and realized it was not the right path for you. You just can't buy the whole deal. Understandable. I am sure a lot of folks here would agree with you whole-heartedly that christianity does not appeal due to its dogmatisms and fantastical fantasy living much like a glorified D&D game. Especially when you get to be in your forties, you tend to outgrow the need for approval from others and the need to keep up appearances. As you mature, you come into your own. This is natural and it is VERY Healthy. Please let me repeat that. This is natural and very healthy! Say that like a mantra if it will help you get through any rough patches.

 

Now, to your wife. It sounds as if you both have evolved; however, you have evolved away from religion while your wife is now clinging to it for dear life. She now views you as wrong and evil. Someone she has to protect her children FROM not WITH. This is a big problem, especially if everyone is living under the same roof. It sends messages to the boys. 1) It shows them that love is argumentative. 2) It says "Dad's bad because Mom said he doesn't believe in God anymore." 3) It brings you both down. 4) It causes you both to live a lie. -- Regardless of whether or not you love one another anymore is really irrelevant (using Asimov's favorite word) and should not even be looked at when making a "big" decision. 5) You are on completely different spiritual paths. (there are more reasons but I'm at a loss right now. I'll post them as I remember them but the ones above are the big hitters.)

 

I hate to say this but it's a slim chance you will ever come to a meeting of the minds unless one of you folds. I am not saying that you should fold, I am just stating that her beliefs are in direct conflict with hers -- if only in her own mind. To her, you now hate the very belief system she has chosen for herself. You have disturbed her balance. You have dared to change her universe and she's pissed. A woman's scorn.... Another thing is, to be perfectly honest, she may never be the woman you married again. For her to "change" she will have to want to change. In order for someone to change, they first have to have recognition that something is wrong in the first place.

 

Often friends of mine have said, "Oh I wish he/she would change. I try and try and it never works. It might be great for awhile but then... blah blah blah, fill in the blank..." I tell them, "Hey, if you're always trying to change him/her, then obviously why are you still with him/her.... You don't like him/her so move on... I am sure you can find someone "ready-made" and you're shoveling shit against the tide if you think you're ever going to change anyone but yourself..." And you know what? I'm right. I know. I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and sold it at the yard sale...have I done that. And it never worked out. In retrospect, I am sure as glad it didn't!

 

This problem of you daring to disturb her universe, for her is a very, very seriously issue -- and the cold shoulder and couch sleeping is indicative of her "pouting" thus wanting her way and trying that old "emotional blackmail" to get it. I can say this because I am one and I observe a lot of them, women can be very manipulative. I am sure every man on this site whose dealt with women will agree. The cold shoulder, the "nothing's wrongs" pout usually will bring a man to his knees in about 2-4 days. Especially if there is a need to please on the man's side. This is not good either because relationships are about compromise. Marriage is a dance. A very well orchestrated, thoughtful dance where both people have to be dancing to the same music.

 

I can't tell you, yes, get a divorce or no, sitck it out, because I am not in your exact situation and I don't know you nor your wife at all -- but even if I did, that would be grossly stepping beyond the intrusion boundary. Anyone who tells you should or should not do something -- especially this big -- is way out of line and you need to tell them to "fuck off..." All I can say is it might help to sit down and make a list. I know it sounds assinine and stupid... but believe me, looking at it on paper will bring things more sharply into focus. It will help you to decide on your own a more clear cut way to handle this situation. Why? Because only you can decide if you want this marriage to continue. And if you don't, you're not a bad person. If you do, you're not a whimp. But either way, don't beat yourself up trying to ascertain an answer you may not have right now.

 

Things like this need to be entered into with very careful thought and reflection. I can advise you to not go with the heat of the moment, because we always say things that we regret when we're pissed or in an "altercation" no matter how calm our exterior seems to the other person.

 

I guess the long short of this very, very lengthy post is this, you have to do with this situation the same thing you did with your spiritual choices... Go with what's in your heart. It is YOUR choice what you want to do. As for your boys, kids today are very savvy, they will survive either way, and they may possibly will surprise you with their strength, resilience, empathy and acceptance of you regardless of their mother's feelings towards you.

 

Just remember, if you do decide to cut the cord, just try to keep it as amicable on your part as possible because though you might get a divorce from her, she will never truly be out of your life because of the children you share. And I would like to emphasize SHARE.

 

I hope this helps. Try that list - pro/con - and see if that maybe helps you with both your feelings and your plans as to what YOU want to do regarding this situation.

 

I wish you the best of luck. My thoughts are with you! If you ever need to vent you have a whole world of people here you can PM and e-mail who will give you more support than you ever imagined...one of them being me.

[evergreen]

I'm sorry you are going through such a difficult time right now. It sounds like you are in a terribly frustrating situation.

I don't have any advice to give, as I'm way too young to know anything about marriage.

I just wanted to post and offer some encouragement, and I hope that you are able to figure out the best thing for you.

Wishing you strength, courage and happiness.

Take care.

[The Wall]

I feel you, man. With very few changes, that's where I am. Perhaps my wife isn't as hard-line fundamentalist as you describe yours, but she's entrenched enough. We have been like this for a couple of years, at least. On some level she knows I don't want to have anything to do with religion, but it's still not an out in the open subject. We can have polite conversations about religious "things" once in a while, but it has to be light.

 

Can I ask some questions?

 

How long have the two of you been at odds over religion? Does the anger/bitterness/whatever come and go, get worse then better? Does your wife get more religious/less religious based on, say, time of year (like more religious-minded around Christmas and Easter)?

 

In the beginning, I wasn't sure our relationship would last either. However, given some cooling off time, the hot issues eventually become not so hot. You learn what to talk about, and what to avoid. Granted, this may limit the relationship, but that could be better than ending it.

 

One thing I have noticed (as alluded to in my question) her religious spirit has highs and lows. The holidays are highs, other times can be lows. If this applies generally to most folks, perhaps your wife could be the same way. With a little patience, you might see a difference in her attitude. Though, with Easter coming up, it could take a while.

 

That's all I can think of for now. Hope it's useful in some way.

 

tw

[DanInPA]

Wow, that sucks!!

 

*man-hugs*

 

My wife is also still a believer (though not a fundy), and uncomfortable with my position. But I think she realizes that belief in biblegod cannot be rationally defended. Maybe you could show her that it's in the best interest of your kids that you try to work things out.

 

While you're reading Strobel's book, you may want to reference this review/essay:

 

The Case Against 'The Case for Christ'

 

Good luck my 'netfreind. I wish the best for you and yours.

 

Dan

[Lycorth]

Ugh - my condolences, lothar. I went through much the same with my ex; when we got together, we were both Xians, but we fooled around (no sex, but plenty of "other things" ). We laughed, went places, enjoyed life totally. I left home and moved in with her, and for awhile all was nice.

 

Until she flipped out.

 

She always was somewhat worried about living together. Her Xian background was of course completely against it, and she was rasied to believe sex was dirty and wicked. She also had a past she never faced or erased, and each time she lived with a man before marriage. So, she had it in her little head that living together before marriage is an instant curse that will always ruin any relationship, every time. So, she freaked out about that. She freaked out about any little flaw of mine, though she had to make most of them up. She freaked out that I wasn't professionally-geared like she was, or as paranoid about Hell as she was, and a whole bunch of other crap. As you can guess, things went bad fast - the engagement ring I gave her and her promise to marry me went down the shitter, but all for the better, of course. I wasted a year and a half trying to get her back, but it of course failed.

 

Sadly, my solution isn't so easy for you as it was for I. I just went home and, after a phone argument, told her off and hung up, effectively ending the whole mess. I could just kick her out of my life and go back to mine - you're married, and that is not so easy to do. Eventually, I fear it may come to that, though - Xians are notoriously stubborn as anything when it comes to their cult. I can only hope your wife will listen to reason, or that if worse really does come to worse, you can indeed get out of it with as little damage as possible.

 

I am sorry to hear of this - no man should have to endure that, and no woman, either. People should never put religion above relationships or hurt someone they care about for a cult. It's sick and wrong, and one of the biggies against Xianity, the terrible potency it has to destroy relationships. It destroyed one of mine, and though my current fiancee is a dream come true and leagues above my last one, I'll never forgive that cult for the harm it brought to an innocent man who just loved one of its cultists. But, though that's in the past, the lesson will not be forgotten, and I hope you don't have to endure any more hurt because of this.

 

My best wishes are with you.

[pandora]

Ugh. I hope you can work it out somehow.

 

I have read The Case for Christ. If you do a really good job of respectfully rebutting it, she may come around... you never know. It sounds like she's just angry that you aren't on her side (obviously), but you never know if that book planted some seeds of doubt and that her overeaction was in part due to her knowing that deep down, you're right.

 

Christians say deep down we know they are are right... I think it is them who know deep down that at the least, Christianity is full of BS.

 

Hang in there. Communication is the hardest thing in a marriage, especially about this stuff. :/

[spamandham]

This sucks dude. I'd love to by you a beer and smoake a cigar and lament over the female religious bullshit that we both share (though you seem to have it worse).

 

If you are seriously considering giving up on your marriage, then it's time to be completely honest. Be honest with her that you do not share her beliefs at all, and have no desire ever to. If you are seriously at the breaking point, what do you have to lose? If she throws you out, so what, you were going to leave anyway. Let her know that you are not trying to change her, and will even let her brainwash the kids (use those words), but that you will not lie to them about your beliefs if asked.

 

Stop going to church. She will never take you seriously as long as you continue to yield like this!

 

Tell her you will read one page of Strobel's bullshit (say it more tactfully) for every page she reads of Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World".

 

If you take this advice and it backfires, just point the blame at the ol' spam man, tell her you were misled by spam/Satan incarnate ( I proudly admit that I am Satan), get down on your knees in prayer and ask for forgiveness.

 

...and return to living an unfilling life of silent despair

[Dio]

Me too. Early 40's, divorced, three kids...

 

Hardest thing I ever went through, but I was still firmly entrenched in the christian mindset at the time. It was only after the splitup that I began to question and reevaluate everything in my life.

 

But I will tell you one thing - there is life after the big D. Divorce absolutely sucks for everyone involved and if there was any way to have avoided it, I would have. But now that it's over with, the feeling I have is day and night from when I felt trapped in a difficult marital situation. I have never felt so free. At first it was almost scary. The divorce and the deconversion came within a year of each other, so all at once, I no longer had a partner to answer to, nor a god to make me feel guilty or sinful. After some getting used to, and some difficult times of alienation and adjustment, I have found strength and wisdom within myself and from new influences in my life that have helped me overcome the despair. Life will be good again for you, some day, either way.

 

=d=

[Thurisaz]

To be honest, I'm not sure I "love" her in the way a married man should love his wife. I want to, but it's so hard......

 

That's just me of course, but if I were you, I don't think I could stand that much longer.

 

(((((lothartx)))))

 

Man that must suck!

[lothartx]

All,

 

Thank you for the replies and encouragement. I greatly appreciate it! Jrmarlin, thank you for the very insitefull post!

 

The wife and I are back to a cordigial and polite standing.

 

I've had time to think

 

To answer a bit of The Wall's questions;

 

We have been at odds ( at varying degrees) since we met. It was an issue, but not a major one in first ~12 years. She wasn't a fundie, went to Baptist churches. I converted and beleived for a while, but I couldn't belive the bible literally. We could talk about it with out getting upset. As long, in some vague way, I said I believed in Jesus, I was OK in her eyes. I quit going to church most of the time after a few years.

When she started going to a charismatic fundalmentalist type church (Rock-n-Roll fudamentalism?) is when I noticed a serious change. She "redicated" her life to god. The only music she listens too is worship/praise. Evolution became a dirty word. Lingerie became sinful. Victoria's Secret catalog became pornography. I became rather depressed.

 

That's when I started taking religion seriously. I stepped back and took a good look at the lives of the people around me and in my wifes close circle of friends. For long time I had a "something is not right" feeling about this church. That's aboout the time it hit me that I'd been living a lie, a double life, for a very long time. Deep down I didn't believe a word of the bible or xtianity. I'd been doing it solely to please my wife.

 

I think, for our relationship to last and grow, several things have to happen.

I need my beliefs to be equally valued and accepted.

I need to not be viewed as an "evil athiest". ( I said, "So I'm the evil athiest and you have god on your side." Instant answer was "Yes!") (oh, she also called me a Liberal, another bad word. )

Damn it! Lingerie is not a sin. WTF is that all about! I can take a lot of abuse, but don't fuck with my sex life! It's something she read in a book and her boneheaded pastor preaches on once a year or so. I have never, ever in my entire life fantasized about a lingerie model while being intimate, ever. It never even occured to me! We bought it because it made you look sexy and alluring.

 

I need to able to say the above to my wife without retribution or belittlement.

Sorry, rambling again.... I think I need a cold shower....

 

To spamandham,

 

[gliph]

Lothartx,

 

This is a great post, thanks for being so open about all of this. The stubborn woman is always tough to deal with, but when she's got her god on her side, you are in deep trouble. I hope there is a solution that you can both come to...

 

One thing i'd really be concerned about is how she handles it with your children. Sometimes when the parents start battling, there will be side stories to the kids of, "Your dad is evil, blah blah blah". It is my deepest hope that she doesn't take it down that path, if she does.... um... "it may be time to seriously re-evaluate"....... how's that for the nice way of saying "get the f out". I had the parent battle with my sister and I in the middle when we were kids. Its gets ugly, REALLY ugly.

 

Sorry for the side rant there... and come on... no victoria's secret?! another manipulation tactic for sure... how can you take away a man's cake like that?! There must be a cute little ex-christian on these boards SOMEWHERE...

 

Good luck, and I do like the idea of reading a page for a page. See if she's willing to go that route... if she is adamently against even that, you're in for a world of hurt. Send her over to www.whywontgodhealamputees.com and see what she says. I can email her for you...

 

*hug*

 

-Gliph

[Kryten]

lothartx,

Glad to hear things are better. I would like to point out that as long as she's a fundie she must submit to your authority. But I suspect she'd choose to ignore the supporting scriptures...

 

The following is only my opinion, so take it or leave it. . .

 

If you want to stay together, there really is only one correct solution to the problem-- and that is for her to either deconvert or become waay more liberal (and less fundy).

 

I think you should examine the hell doctrine with her and show her how it is void from god's set of laws and punishments (via Moses), and consider the concept that life is a test and the ONLY criteria for avoiding eternal and everlasting torture is whether or not we BELIEVE the ultra-contradicting gospel stories. People born into muslim (among other) countries automatically go to hell forever. How can anyone defend such crap?

 

Strobel's books have been widely and thoroughly refuted. You can easily find a mountain of material on it.

 

 

Good luck!

[jrmarlin]

All,

 

Thank you for the replies and encouragement. I greatly appreciate it! Jrmarlin, thank you for the very insitefull post!

You are more than welcome. Any time you need to talk, you got my handle.

 

The wife and I are back to a cordigial and polite standing.

 

That's good news. But don't skirt the issue. It will rear its ugly head again if not resolved to both persons' satisfaction! Somehow you two need to a meeting of the minds so that both of you to be Happy not merely existing and cohabitating.

 

I've had time to think

 

(Rock-n-Roll fudamentalism?)

 

Never heard of this before and I was in the Rock n' Roll industry for 20 years. Is this a new thing? Or have I been out of the Xian loop for too long?

 

Damn it! Lingerie is not a sin. WTF is that all about! I can take a lot of abuse, but don't fuck with my sex life! It's something she read in a book and her boneheaded pastor preaches on once a year or so. I have never, ever in my entire life fantasized about a lingerie model while being intimate, ever. It never even occured to me! We bought it because it made you look sexy and alluring.

Lingerie is not a sin -- you win the prize. Withholding sex is a big no-no. Actually, that's spousal abuse. Did you know that? It's in most legal regs for most states. You're in TX and its in the laws there.

 

Furthermore, Genesis 3 said the woman shall submit to the man. I don't agree with it but if she's going to be a good Xian then she has to take it full nine whether or not she feels like it. Usually, if all partners are equal, I say it's a mutual thing; however, if you are going to be called named, remind her that you are the man in the family, head of the house according to the bible -- and if she is going to beat you over the head with the bible, then she needs to understand she must follow it to the letter.

 

I also believe somewhere in Exodus 34 or one of the other chapters, I read the woman must serve the husband as he is the head of the house. Basically, whatever he says goes. Now, I am sure every woman on here is going to go, "JR......What are you saying????!!!" And what I am saying is, she needs to follow the bible to the letter. No exceptions. No cherry picking. If you are going to be persecuted for not believing the bible while she claims she does, then she needs to put her money where her mouth is -- talk is cheap. It's the actions that count.

 

I hate it when women do this to men because it's cruel. Withholding sex is dispicable -- especially when a woman has more fun than the man in the first place. Men don't have multiple orgasms. Women are so fucking stupid when they deprive themselves of sex. They just don't see how assinine they are truly being because they only person they're depriving is themselves. Some punishment.

 

I need to able to say the above to my wife without retribution or belittlement.

Sorry, rambling again.... I think I need a cold shower....

There is no reason why you have to pretend with us. A lot of us have been down the road you're on and we all know where it leads along with the emotions it incites. As for the cold shower, It might be a good idea, it sounds like you're serverely frustrated in more than ways than one.

 

When I advised you to think things through and make up your own mind about things -- I hope you did not take that as me saying to roll over and be abused. No one under any circumstances should be abused for any reason. You are a nice, intelligent and attractive man. Women would be like taxi cabs for you if you were single; one leaves the curb another will be there 15 minutes later. So do not feel you are stuck. You never not have any options. The trick is figuring out which options you can live with and which ones you can not.

 

OK?

 

Still sending you good thoughts!

[jrmarlin]

lothartx,

Glad to hear things are better. I would like to point out that as long as she's a fundie she must submit to your authority. But I suspect she'd choose to ignore the supporting scriptures...

ACK, Kryten. Sorry!!!!!! I didn't read you post until AFTER I wrote mine. I'm not trying to trip on your words. Good point thought.........

 

Mr. Grinch, Mythra and Heimball, we need a scripture number and chapter. QUICK!

 

The premise is about the wife serving the husband....

 

I know it's there but I can't remember where.

[lothartx]

Hey guys, I don't want to make it worse than it sounds. She's not withholding sex. I could "get some" if you know what I mean. I don't want to go into detail about my sex life, or lack there of.

 

I picked up a two xtian books on sex when this first came up about lingerie. Both said the only thing expressely forbidden in the bible is sex with dead people, sex with animals and sex outside of marriage. I'm pretty safe on the first two. Everything else is pretty much up to the individuals personal prefrences. Her basic premise is lingerie can be a sin since it might trigger lustful thoughts about the model, hence I'm comitting adultery in my mind.

 

I'm not the type of person who plays the one-upmanship type of game. I believe the bible is not worth the paper it is printed on and I'm not going to start quoting stuff out of it, well... maybe not yet...

 

However, I would like to keep my sex life out of the public forum. I'm an exhibitionist at heart and love nude beaches, but this is a little different...

 

You are a nice, intelligent and attractive man. Women would be like taxi cabs for you if you were single; one leaves the curb another will be there 15 minutes later. So do not feel you are stuck. You never not have any options. The trick is figuring out which options you can live with and which ones you can not.

blushes and shuffles feet... aaawww thanks..

 

If you want to stay together, there really is only one correct solution to the problem-- and that is for her to either deconvert or become waay more liberal (and less fundy).

 

Yes, Kryten (btw I own the first four seasons of Red Dwarf! Great show. )

 

That's the conclusion I've come to also. However saying it here is much easier than saying it at home. I do have what appears to be an unhealthy need to please women.

 

But like jrmarlin said about getting older. I think I grew up finally and I may not know exactly what I want, but I know exactly what I don't want.

 

I will have to grow a new spine and see what happens. I won't be a jerk (hopefully) but I'm not happy and something has got to give.

 

Thanks for the help and all the food for thought.

 

Ohh.. and gliph,

 

My kids are 9 and 11. I don't think she's playing them against me. My wife does have a lot of good traits or I wouldn't be here still. They know dad doesn't believe. The rest is between me and her.

[jrmarlin]

I certainly don't mean to pry...I was just drawing off what you said, Texas, (my new handle for you) so please don't feel you have to share as public forums are really not a very descrete way to handle such things. But just know, Texas, you're never stuck.

 

Good thoughts coming your way...

[Lilith]

All good posts so far. Please allow me to weigh in as well.

 

There was a point where I was 99.9% convinced that my marriage was not going to make it. My husband was beyond distraught over my deconversion. (Yes, he's a fundy). I took the stance that all I could do was continue to show him that despite my beliefs (or lack thereof) that I was not suddenly the spawn of satan and that I was still a good wife, good mother and good person. I knew he'd either come around, or he wouldn't.

 

It all depends on how patient you want to be. She will either come around, or she won't. The real question is, how long do you wait? I personally believe that the answer is, "When you've had enough, you'll know it."

 

In my case, it's a happy ending. We still cannot discuss religion with any depth, but most of our personal demons (pun intended) are gone or greatly diminished.

 

I wish you the best of luck in this situation. I hope for a happy ending for you as well. Be strong, in either case....Number One Rule is stay true to yourself.

 

:hugz:

 

Lilith

[spamandham]

I'm thinking the "fight scripture with scripture" approach could be effective. Not because you believe it, or even because she thinks you believe it, but because it will challenge her and cause her to fear that her position is not solid after all. If she starts to fear that, she will leave you alone on the topic. We could help you find the really nasty stuff that shows;

 

- she must submit to you

- she is your subordinate

- she and the children are your property

- she can not divorce you (she's trapped no matter what you do)

- the acceptability of mistresses for you

 

Find a church that reinforces this kind of bullshit (they do exist) and get her to start going there with you.

[Bongo]

You're not alone bud. Same boat here, give or take. I have no answers. My wife is fundy crazy and a very weak woman. Just yesterday, she was causing my little girl to tears by making her memorize some Awana bull shit. God i hate that mind fuck.

 

Anyway, this is your thread. Just want to let you know you're not alone.

[lothartx]

State of the Union update...

 

Well, things are better, we've talked more about religion.

 

I have agreed to read "A Case for Chirst", the student addition and at least part of this huge volume called "The New Evidence for Christ that Demands a verdict".

 

She will read two books of my choice. One is Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World" and one book I have yet to name.

 

My plan is to read the books. I'm reading the student addition of "A Case for Christ" becuase the dang "The New Evidence for Christ that Demands a verdict" is fricking +700 pages..

 

I have a note book and I'm taking notes and doing a contrast/compare to collabrating evidence. It's actually easier than I thought. I'm looking at the source/message in the book and reading it in context. So far, I'm happy to say, it's has been very educational.

 

In the end, I'm not looking to destroy my wifes belief system. My goal is to have my wife acknowledge that my beliefs are valid and that I'm not an "evil" athiest. If she rejects me after I present my arguments, then so be it. Life goes on and I will survive. If she accepts my beliefs as valid based my evaluation of the "evidence" I will continue to respect her and her beliefs.

 

It will be an interesting month, to say the least.

[jrmarlin]

You're not alone bud. Same boat here, give or take. I have no answers. My wife is fundy crazy and a very weak woman. Just yesterday, she was causing my little girl to tears by making her memorize some Awana bull shit. God i hate that mind fuck.

 

Anyway, this is your thread. Just want to let you know you're not alone.

Bongo, why didn't you stand up for your daughter? I wouldn't have in front of her, but she needs her only sane parent to be on her side. Poor kid.

 

 

I have a note book and I'm taking notes and doing a contrast/compare to collabrating evidence.

It will be an interesting month, to say the least.

Indeed - a very interesting month. As for the notebook. You two are doing homework assignments. You know I spent so many years in school, I was glad when I got out so I didn't have to do homework anymore.... if marriage means I have to back to homework, I shant ever remarry. I would rather swallow glass..

 

I hope you're keeping accurate notes, Texas, because you wouldn't want to take anything out of context or in the wrong light.

[lothartx]

You're not alone bud. Same boat here, give or take. I have no answers. My wife is fundy crazy and a very weak woman. Just yesterday, she was causing my little girl to tears by making her memorize some Awana bull shit. God i hate that mind fuck.

 

Anyway, this is your thread. Just want to let you know you're not alone.

Bongo, why didn't you stand up for your daughter? I wouldn't have in front of her, but she needs her only sane parent to be on her side. Poor kid.

 

 

I have a note book and I'm taking notes and doing a contrast/compare to collabrating evidence.

It will be an interesting month, to say the least.

Indeed - a very interesting month. As for the notebook. You two are doing homework assignments. You know I spent so many years in school, I was glad when I got out so I didn't have to do homework anymore.... if marriage means I have to back to homework, I shant ever remarry. I would rather swallow glass..

 

I hope you're keeping accurate notes, Texas, because you wouldn't want to take anything out of context or in the wrong light.

 

 

bongo,

 

That also makes you not alone either!

 

I would think about a way to talk to your wife if this is consistant trend. I would not do it front of your daughter. I don't know you or your situation well enough to be specific, but sometimes a well meaning observation can do wonders.

 

You said your wife is fundy crazy and weak. Do you know of any events in her life that may be factor? My observations is there seems to be a big correlation between having a crapy childhood and being religous. My wife's father and step father where both A-holes. I think that is the major factor in her finding comfort in an all powerfull "father" figure.

 

Just speculation on my part.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Don't worry jr, I'll do my best to stay in context. I enjoy the challenge! Not sure if you were joking or being serious. Initially I've found the xtian point of view to be very guilty of the "out of context" theme they always through back in our faces. I've been using a plain bible NIV and the Skeptics annotated bible for cross references. When I'm done, I should type it up in work doc and post it.

[Bongo]

By "weak" i meant that she can't handle any kind of threat to her belief system. She is not strong enough to cynically analyze it herself. Whenever I've slightly brought up a question, she cries. SHe is a total slave to it.

 

Her parents are fundies, but I know of no problems from them. SHe has older siblings, which may have led to her weakness. The siblings are all strong self-confident people. Perhaps they overbear-ed her while developing.

 

Important: Advice has been given to me several times on these threads about what to do. I am not seeking any more advice. It pains me to read it, or to have to justify what I do or do not do, to the advice giver. Some may say, "then why bring up your problems Bongo?". Because ranting is good. And hearing other people in the same boat does me good, and perhaps my rants do someone else good the same way. I *do* talk about these things with *my* siblings, so I'm not totally alone with this.