Dra_Mucd_Uha Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Hey, I'm new here. I thought it only right to introduce myself I am 16, and have grown up in a Christian home (Southern Baptist, to be specific). I've been having doubts recently of my faith, and decided to come here to see what the unbelievers believe (oxymoron? sounds like it, lol). I've talked to the believers of Christianity, and heard what they have to say (still hearing it), and I thought it only right to look at both sides of the equation. So here I am. Hey all, don't mind me looking around at the posts... -Dra_Mucd_Uha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I believe I'll have another beer. That's what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dra_Mucd_Uha Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Welcome! Hope you can find some interesting stuff on here. Be sure to check out the articles section of the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I've talked to the believers of Christianity, and heard what they have to say (still hearing it), and I thought it only right to look at both sides of the equation. So here I am. Welcome to our eeeeeeeevil site, greetings from the most active Asatruar of this place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dra_Mucd_Uha Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 Thanks, I'll go ahead and read some of the articles before I get too deep into posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Welcome Dra_Mucd_Uha (from an ex-Southern Baptist). Hope you get something worthwhile from your time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Welcome from a southern baptist preacher's kid! I left christianity over 20 years ago ...I probably started questioning at about the same as you. My dad had us read the bible cover to cover yearly; I think actually reading the bible led to the beginning of most of my questions about the whole faith (the OT is scary as hell when you are 13 ...not much less scary at 39!). Then when I went to college, I started finding out that most of what I had been told about other religions were considerably less than true and began to wonder what else I had been lied to about. After that, it was just lots and lots of study. I had a youth minister once who actively discouraged trying to find out anything outside of christian literature. Wonder why that was?! My older brother was studying to be a minister himself, then deconverted after his second year of bible college. My oldest brother declared his agnosticism about the same time as me... Hope you take your time & check out some of the articles & links. No matter what you decide, you are to be commended for being willing to critically examine both sides of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 This ex-christian believes in sunsets and laughter. I believe in generosity without desire for recompense. I believe in doing the right thing out of love instead of fear. I believe in jokes and absurdities. I believe that lust is healthy, doubt is wise, and that keeping your eyes on heaven means you'll stumble and fall here on earth. I believe in kindness. I believe in the therapeutic power of a good massage and the energizing power of a strong cup of coffee. I believe that sleeping in on a weekday is heaven and thinking it's Friday when it's Thursday is hell. I believe in honesty, fairness, integrity, responsibility, and the ethical treatment of animals, although I don't belong to PETA. I believe in fireworks and music. I believe in song and dance. I believe that the expectation of honesty often inspires it. I believe that roleplaying games relieve stress like nothing else and playing an overpowered fighter class is more rewarding than playing a mage. I believe in homemade fudge and that most human conflicts could be resolved by taking the two people with the problem and having them sit down and talk it out over a joint or two. I believe that alcohol should be outlawed and ecstasy should be legal. I believe that making electronic music is satisfying in a way that someone who's never done it cannot possibly understand. I believe that my girlfriend loves me and I believe that I'll be missed when I die. I believe that my friends are worth a sleepless night or two and birthdays are more sacred than Christmas. I believe in the power of applied logic and that black and white photography is more difficult to master than color. I believe in the smell of roses. I believe in the way rain feels hitting my skin on a hot summer day in Florida. I believe in biological imperatives and I believe that if I met any of the regulars on this site in person, we'd feel like we knew each other for years. I believe in chocolate milk, cherry lemonade, and apple pie a' la mode. I believe in brownie mix out of a box made with butter instead of water and I believe in love at first sight. I believe in tomorrow and I believe in yesterday, but most of all, I believe in myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothartx Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 This ex-christian believes in sunsets and laughter. I believe in generosity without desire for recompense. I believe in doing the right thing out of love instead of fear. I believe in jokes and absurdities. I believe that lust is healthy, doubt is wise, and that keeping your eyes on heaven means you'll stumble and fall here on earth. I believe in kindness. I believe in the therapeutic power of a good massage and the energizing power of a strong cup of coffee. I believe that sleeping in on a weekday is heaven and thinking it's Friday when it's Thursday is hell. I believe in honesty, fairness, integrity, responsibility, and the ethical treatment of animals, although I don't belong to PETA. I believe in fireworks and music. I believe in song and dance. I believe that the expectation of honesty often inspires it. I believe that roleplaying games relieve stress like nothing else and playing an overpowered fighter class is more rewarding than playing a mage. I believe in homemade fudge and that most human conflicts could be resolved by taking the two people with the problem and having them sit down and talk it out over a joint or two. I believe that alcohol should be outlawed and ecstasy should be legal. I believe that making electronic music is satisfying in a way that someone who's never done it cannot possibly understand. I believe that my girlfriend loves me and I believe that I'll be missed when I die. I believe that my friends are worth a sleepless night or two and birthdays are more sacred than Christmas. I believe in the power of applied logic and that black and white photography is more difficult to master than color. I believe in the smell of roses. I believe in the way rain feels hitting my skin on a hot summer day in Florida. I believe in biological imperatives and I believe that if I met any of the regulars on this site in person, we'd feel like we knew each other for years. I believe in chocolate milk, cherry lemonade, and apple pie a' la mode. I believe in brownie mix out of a box made with butter instead of water and I believe in love at first sight. I believe in tomorrow and I believe in yesterday, but most of all, I believe in myself. ^^ What Jose said brother... I believe in personal responsibility. I believe the earth and the universe are billions of years old. I believe I miss Jose's old avatar. I believe windy days are made for sailing. I believe in dark chocolate and red wine. I believe cool mountian breezes and the smell of pine trees does more to calm my soul than a years worth of prayer. I believe sailing around the world solo would be the most challenging and rewarding event in my entire life. I believe in true free will. I believe we reap the rewards and consequences of our choices in life because that's the way life works, not because of gawd. I believe I can't speel worth a hoot. I believe I'm better off with out religion than with religion. I believe this list could go on and on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dra_Mucd_Uha Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Welcome Dra_Mucd_Uha (from an ex-Southern Baptist). Hope you get something worthwhile from your time here. I'm also from a Southern Baptist Church... in Texas Welcome from a southern baptist preacher's kid! I left christianity over 20 years ago ...I probably started questioning at about the same as you. My dad had us read the bible cover to cover yearly; I think actually reading the bible led to the beginning of most of my questions about the whole faith (the OT is scary as hell when you are 13 ...not much less scary at 39!). Then when I went to college, I started finding out that most of what I had been told about other religions were considerably less than true and began to wonder what else I had been lied to about. After that, it was just lots and lots of study. I had a youth minister once who actively discouraged trying to find out anything outside of christian literature. Wonder why that was?! My older brother was studying to be a minister himself, then deconverted after his second year of bible college. My oldest brother declared his agnosticism about the same time as me... Hope you take your time & check out some of the articles & links. No matter what you decide, you are to be commended for being willing to critically examine both sides of the equation. Thank you. I couldn't it imagine it being easy for you, seeing as how you are a preacher's kid. I haven't even left Christianity yet, but I still feel somewhat...different. I did temporarily leave a while back, only to be brought back to it by...something, I don't remember. But I remember what it felt like during that time period not being Christian... as someone else on these boards had said, it was like a giant weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I would love to have that again. But we all know truth isn't about what feels good, unfortunately That's a lot of stuff to believe in Jose and lothartx! I was reading about Buddhism the other day, and I really like what some of their beliefs are: about how suffering comes from desire, and if we remove desire from our lives we can remove suffering. While it is similar to Christianity in removing desire, I like it because it's more something you would do to improve your life for yourself... not for an all-powerful being, who you can't even see. Thanks for the warm welcome. Still looking into the articles and other posts... -Dra Mucd Uha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Hi Dra and welcome, I believe that we all have a spiritual journey and no one can tell you what yours is. It's a journey of self discovery and it's an everyday occurance sometimes tiny steps, sometimes great leaps. I believe that we all need to find our own truth and find our own center. Spirituality cannot be found outside of ourselves. It's not in the Bible. It's not in Christianity. It's not in any religion. It's inside of you and it's a human journey. Here's to you finding your own path whatever that may be. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Taph, I noticed your signature, "Militant Agnostic...". How do you know others don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dra_Mucd_Uha Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 btw if you are the least bit interested, I am posting in another forum (a Christian one I have been a part of for a while now) about my objections and questions. Be warned... it's up to about 85 replies now, so it's a little long... oh, and I'm Evangilist777. -Dra Mucd Uha lol... forgot to post the link.... http://www.tribforces.com/index.php?showtopic=18528 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Welcome, Dra - stop by whenever, much to read and much to see, and do note what Taphie said. True spirituality comes from within, not without. You decide if and how much you need in your life, and there's no Hell to roast you in if you're wrong about any of it. Above all alse, make life your religion, and make living it rightly your manner of practicing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Taph, I noticed your signature, "Militant Agnostic...". How do you know others don't know? It's more of a tounge in cheek joke. I was once a militant fundy and the joke is I'm now a militant agnostic. Personally, I think everyone should seek to find their own truth and it's very personal and different for everyone. I want to add that I believe Spirituality is a self discovery and a realization of how you fit into the world with or without a god concept. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DucorpsToo Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Welcome to the boards. Just take your time , relax, and read the interesting articles on this site. Hope that you eventually find inner peace and contentment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aynalhub Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hi Dra! Welcome. If you are anything like me, this site will help you feel that your doubts and ideas, the ones you can't resist that seem in conflict with what you've been told, are reasonable and not evil or stupid. You said you've been in and out a bit with the religion...that's how cults, drugs and a lot of intensely pleasurable things work. But in my case, the period of time in which I was "back in" the cult began to get shorter and shorter, it was an eerily mathematical cycle, actually. Eventually, the fear and doubt were completely gone, and I now feel no more guilty about my disbelief than I do about disbelieving the other thousands of religions in the world. So the Romans went and threatened and murdered our ancestors...big deal, that doesn't make their state cult reality! And I disagree that Christianity urges the loss of desire like Buddhism. I would argue that Christianity simply encourages other kinds of vain desires...the desire for respect, purity, truth, God, and forces you to pervert your nature to attain those desires so you can go to Heaven and have, you guessed it, lots of pleasure. It actually makes desire bigger than it was before by cultivating a sense of pleasure as the goal of all existence. Frankly, I think Buddhism is subject to the same paradox, but that's what happens when philosophies of a radical nature, like Christ's and Buddha's, are subjected to tradition, popularization, and the needs of people who are significantly less religious than the people who caused the movements. Forgive me for all the hot air. But feel free to do likewise, this atmosphere is good for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 btw if you are the least bit interested, I am posting in another forum (a Christian one I have been a part of for a while now) about my objections and questions. Be warned... it's up to about 85 replies now, so it's a little long... oh, and I'm Evangilist777. -Dra Mucd Uha lol... forgot to post the link.... http://www.tribforces.com/index.php?showtopic=18528 Hey again (you have the same name as my oldest brother!)! so far (I'm still reading the thread) ..this one is my favorite! Do yourself a BIG favor, Stop THINKING about it, and simply take the leap of faith.I love you and I am praying for you... ...just stop thinking, ignore reality, and EVERYTHING will be roses! Sometimes we get so used to His presence that we take it for granted. sorry, but this is where I just had to stop. I'll try to keep this short; I have another thread I plan on starting soon about this last weekend you might find interesting. You might want to take a peek at my "scary night" thread; it might not make very immediate sense to you how it could possibly have any relevance to the seeking you are going through... I promise it does. Being a preachers kid actually had little relevance to my de-conversion. I love my dad & admire him in a lot of ways, even if it did take a long time to find the person underneath the preacher and the (generally poor) father figure. I think I arrived at my current system of beliefs more by simply watching people than anything else. I saw the best and the worst sides of people growing up, religious and non-religous alike. I explored many different religions; paganism, eastern religions, american indian mysticism (I'm part comanchee). In over a decade of exploring, I personally could find absolutely no difference in the everyday life of anyone of any faith or absence of it. It took tons of study to finally come to grips that my own experience with christianity was primarily based on fear. I still deal with it every now and then (anger, frustration ...mostly disappointment), but we all have our own little "demons." Bad things happen to good people. Good things happen to bad people. Bad things happen to bad people. Good things happen to good people. There really isn't much variation no matter how much you pray, or which god you believe in. The only difference I have seen that meant anything was solely based on the individual. What impresses me is how people deal with it when the stuff happens. I choose not to attribure any aspect of my life to any sort of personal "god." It's a personal thing; I know many christians of many stripes & respect them and their beliefs a great deal. If their belief works for them and they aren't trying to impose their system on me, then whatever gives meaning to their life is worth it as far as I am concerned. A nice christian story you will hear is that when you are seeking answers, generally the answer turns out being right in front of your face. To them, that answer is god. To me, I found that all the answers I needed were right there inside of myself. this statement: Why are other religions and theries and beliefs wrong, because theres one Truth and that is Jesus. is in a nutshell, I believe this may be where most of your questions are coming from. It's an absolute. I would bet even money this "johnathan" guy has never read the Vedas, the Koran, the Analects of Confucius, Book of Mormon, etc. etc. Maybe it has occurred to you that somewhere there is a moslem kid asking the same questions to his peers and being told the identical thing as many of those people are telling you, only with "The Prophet" inserted instead of "Jesus." Life is what we make it. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it's great. If you feel a need to attribute a "reason," or find someone to thank or blame or whatever, you'll find yourself bogged down. People have been asking those same questions probably since we crawled out of the trees; lots of people have come up with their own versions of those "why's," but if you are looking for an absolute... all I can say is good luck. Contrary to what you have been told, if there was an absolute, then everyone would believe the same thing. I think the secret to life is "now." If you are walking on the road of life with your eyes set 100 yards ahead, you're probably going to trip on something. If you walk backwards looking at what was behind you; same thing again. Either way, you miss out on a lot of things on the path itself. Life is what we make it. I think if you spend too much time looking for "meaning," then you might end up missing out on life itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliph Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Welcome Dra! You've found a great place to investigate your questions and find your own path. The best thing to do is be honest with yourself and have an open mind (ok, how's that for lame ). Anyway, you've already taken a huge step just being open to what you'll find here on the site. It might be for you, it might not. I started out on this site too and found it full of great information and a lots of people that were in a similar spirtual place. A great place to start is in the testimonies forums, just read through what some other people have been going through and you'll be amazed at how much in common we all have as we find our own paths. Glad to have you hear poking around, and if you have questions or just ideas, throw them out there, you'll get lots of good insight and feedback from the people here. Enjoy your stay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hi Dra and Welcome You are asking good questions and i wish i had done the same when i was your age. I thought them .. but didn't discuss them so they became deep internal issues for me alone and that was not healthy in anyway shape or form. I didn't have the internet of course.. ! The posts on the Christian forum are interesting. The idea that you just need to have faith was one idea that I could never come to terms with and the more i tried to have faith the worse it got. Faith is backing off and just believing - this is what you are being told by the Christians. I think the Christians have a point .. If you can find it inside yourself to truly believe in a loving higher being who you have a one to one relationship with and are able to ignore anything your mind or anyone elses mind says then you will probably feel great! I have heard non believers say that they wish they could have faith like that - something to believe in. That the believer can often seem to have a better life because of this absolute faith / belief. But it still doesn't answer your question. Is it true!? And for this type of question they (or anyone else) have no answer. The fact that you are not afraid to question (ie not afraid of hell or damnation etc) is a good thing, that can be a major hurdle for some people. You can now start your journey in comfort! Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliph Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 ok, ok, ok... i just started reading your thread on the other site, and i had to get back in here... first off, your OP on the site is fantastic. i'm going to quote it here, in case some other people don't venture over there... For one, I haven't really felt God lately. Or...at all. Looking back, on all those times I have felt happiness serving God, all it could be is my fooling myself in thinking I'm doing something good, thus producing happiness, contentment, even excitment on occasions. How do you really know God exists anyway? I've always said God exists because all evidence points to him. But...does it really? I mean, I don't know how we got here, but it could be a lot of things. Maybe science is right. Maybe christianity is right. Maybe Mormonism is right. Or maybe Greek Mythology is right. Who knows? Everything that has happened in my Christian life that is supposedly "of God" could be many other things as well. Like I said about my happiness in serving God. It could be a self deception. Making myself happy because I think I'm doing something worth being happy about. How do we really know? How do you know Christianity is true? How do you know Christianity isn't just another religion that was meant to prove the unknown, but just happens to be a successful one, like Mormonism? I apologize for coming to ask for aid yet again. Who knows how many times I've done it. But things are really getting out of control. Thanks. These are fantastic questions! I felt the exact same way, but never had the courage to ask them outloud, and certainly not on a message board. You are already doing one of the hardest parts in all of this, taking an objective look at everything you have learned. Keep questioning, keep researching, keep doing everything you are doing. One of the most interesting parts to all of this? There really isn't a right answer. Just like Taph said, its your own journey. Just look around here... you'll find people like yourself, christians, theists, agnostics, atheists, and EVERYTHING in between... everyone on their own journey and their own resolution and their own answer for their spiritual questions... For anyone to say there is one answer, one solution is just silly. There is absoutley no way to know! And there are definitely, absolutely, NO absolutes... ok, wait, i guess that's kind of an absolute... um... well, that's the only absolute then, that there are no other absolutes... Anyway... I started reading some of the replies (ok, i only got through 2 or 3) on the other thread and was really disheartened. For you to be looking for help and for people to be telling you to "stop thinking" and tossing out some quotes is not what you are searching for. I guess that's the double edged sword in all of this, someone can't really tell you your path, you'll find it on your own. jrmarlin has some great matrix quotes that fit amazingly well into how you are feelilng and how you will find your own path. So with your questions about some of the other religions, about mormonism, go read, and search for yourself. Go read about theism, buddism, mormonism, islam, anything and everything. Lately I've been reading some of the Book of Mormon and the Quran just to get some insight into other belief systems... there's a couple good online resources that have annotated versions... here's the one i've been using: Book of Mormon Quran Ok, i'm going to try and read some more of the replies from your other post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hey I was reading, some of your posts on the other site, and I just wanted to say I feel for you. back in the day I did a lot of things that you did, gave up RPG's and the music I liked for instance. I also loved anime when I was younger...well there wasn't much broght over here back then, but what was around I liked. I stopped, at the time I said it was for my reliationship with God, but mostly I did it because I knew the christians around me didn't get my hobbies. They were too straight laced to play RPG's or watch anime. So I stopped doing any of thost things for years, and one of the things that happened to me when I started having doubts is that I started to take back my life. The way it feels to me now it was as if I had given up my own life to serve an image of God I had created in my head, and also to be and do what others around me expected of me. Sad, since my parents had taught me when I was young to be independant and not just follow the crowd. It seems that you are dealing with some of those same issues. Let me ask you, what would your christian friends think if you started playing RPG's again? Some of them probably even fall into that whole D&D is evil group I bet. and then ask yourself if you are comfortable living the life OTHERS expect of you, or if you want to live your own life. When I started taking back my life one of the first things I did was buy a PS2 and start playing video games again. I also found it sad that others on the site seemed to be telling you not to think or study. Even if you remain a christian, you should learn that your life is your own, it doesn't belong to the others around you, even if they don't approve of your choices, don't let that stop you from living your life in a way that makes you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 oh, and the guy who says that the two geneologies are from Joseph and Mary is just wrong...if you read the passages they clearly BOTH trace Jesus through Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dra_Mucd_Uha Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Hey.... please forgive me for my short reply... but I've been so busy debating friends, people from church and school, and on that forum that I am running out of time... Hey I was reading, some of your posts on the other site, and I just wanted to say I feel for you. back in the day I did a lot of things that you did, gave up RPG's and the music I liked for instance. I also loved anime when I was younger...well there wasn't much broght over here back then, but what was around I liked. I stopped, at the time I said it was for my reliationship with God, but mostly I did it because I knew the christians around me didn't get my hobbies. They were too straight laced to play RPG's or watch anime. So I stopped doing any of thost things for years, and one of the things that happened to me when I started having doubts is that I started to take back my life. The way it feels to me now it was as if I had given up my own life to serve an image of God I had created in my head, and also to be and do what others around me expected of me. Sad, since my parents had taught me when I was young to be independant and not just follow the crowd. It seems that you are dealing with some of those same issues. Let me ask you, what would your christian friends think if you started playing RPG's again? Some of them probably even fall into that whole D&D is evil group I bet. and then ask yourself if you are comfortable living the life OTHERS expect of you, or if you want to live your own life. When I started taking back my life one of the first things I did was buy a PS2 and start playing video games again. I also found it sad that others on the site seemed to be telling you not to think or study. Even if you remain a christian, you should learn that your life is your own, it doesn't belong to the others around you, even if they don't approve of your choices, don't let that stop you from living your life in a way that makes you happy. Definitely! Christianity, in my new, current opinion, is simply a big system meant to keep people happy and in line, to give them a sense of purpose. It's soooo much like that Matrix, it's almost scary. Speaking of which, I would love to hear those Matrix quotes... I saw the one on the signiture, I thoguht that was awesome (I'm a huge fan of the Matrix). My friends probably would try to get me away from RPGs. The more and more I research, the closer to becoming an agnostic I become. I now look at Christianity just like I look at Mormonism: A trap. Another system. I'm sorry, but again I'm out of time.... I need to go to the other forum real quick, post, and get to bed. I'll come back here tomorrow hopefully (my parents will probbaly want me to go to church though... they don't know about my recent "discoveries") -Dra Mucd Uha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts