xrayman7040 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I have been slowly evolving as an atheist within this last months and I have made my beliefs known to a few coworkers, most of whom believe in the God of the Bible, yet don't really practice their religions. I would never come out to some of my more devout coworkers. Well anyway the question came up of holding on to my atheism on my death bed. I gotta admit that one still makes me think. Could I do it? How do you veteren Atheists answer that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I can't say for certain what my father was by the time of his deathbed conversion, but growing up, he was mostly apostate, instilling in me fundamental tenets of honest inquiry about religion I had to be much older to even recognize. Just before his conversion, he was growing in his adherence to islam, which he'd been nominally associated with in the past (Nation of Islam flavor). I was still a christian, and rather growing in my devotion by that point, yet as I recall, I felt rather disappointed, though I couldn't quite understand why. Personally, although I am not an atheist, I am close enough to answer this question. I feel I am utterly unable to turn to the possibility of the god of christianity being real on my deathbed. When I confront the fear of death, it is not any sort of afterlife that frightens me, and certainly not the possibility of hell. Under no circumstances do I think I will abandon my resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I gotta admit that one still makes me think. Could I do it? How do you veteren Atheists answer that one? Most atheists strive to stay true to themselves and their fellow human beings. To veer away from such a standard during their final moments, is to pretty much render this virtue a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Wonder Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 What the hell does being on the deathbed have to do with anything? People die, without exception... not exactly news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I have been slowly evolving as an atheist within this last months and I have made my beliefs known to a few coworkers, most of whom believe in the God of the Bible, yet don't really practice their religions. I would never come out to some of my more devout coworkers. Well anyway the question came up of holding on to my atheism on my death bed. I gotta admit that one still makes me think. Could I do it? How do you veteren Atheists answer that one? Like I said in another post tonight, I don't remember anything from before I was born, I won't remember anything after I die. That's how I look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiffany Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Life is my hell... death (however painful it may be) is my lord and savior! True Freedom is the death of mind and body. "Welcome to oblivion." -Pinhead- Hellraiser: Bloodline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Dave Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 How do you veteren Atheists answer that one? I'll let you know in 40 or 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathuria Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Go to the Lion's Den forum and read what an WinAce had to say on his deathbed; the thread "An Atheist at Peace" is pinned at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I have been slowly evolving as an atheist within this last months and I have made my beliefs known to a few coworkers, most of whom believe in the God of the Bible, yet don't really practice their religions. I would never come out to some of my more devout coworkers. Well anyway the question came up of holding on to my atheism on my death bed. I gotta admit that one still makes me think. Could I do it? How do you veteren Atheists answer that one? I've got to say.....history isn't only written by the winners, it's also "written" by the survivors. I wonder just how many atheists actually did convert on their deathbeds? It's not like every person they dying has ever known is physically present in the room at the time of death. And it's not like the dead can sit up and say "Liar!" if someone claims they converted. Funerals are a difficult affair. And if arragements are not clearly made ahead of time, the religious funeral formula can kick in for the exhausted bereaved. And the "deathbed conversion" is an easy justification for just going along with the norms at a difficult life period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 interesting topic... I seem to remember reading somewhere about an atheist that refused to allow the clergy anywhere near his deathbed just because he believed that most of the rampant stories of all the "atheist deathbed conversions" was merely made up by the clergy who were there at the time. Having a baptist minister father, I can honestly believe he was probably correct. I remember a few years back my dad was working the hospitals as a volunteer chaplain; he was practically bragging to me about how he kept pestering a terminal cancer patient to convert (I think in his demented way of thinking, he thought the story would be "inspirational" to his heathen son). The guy wanted nothing to do with him, but dad kept on and on until after a couple weeks of it, finally the guy "got saved." I was so PISSED at Dad! He didn't even fathom the possibility that after he spent two weeks pestering a dying guy, the guy probably just faked it to get him off his back! He damned sure never went back to see the guy afterward. I love my dad, but he is an utter PRICK about his beliefs sometimes. This was one of a remarkably small number of occasions that I have truly been ashamed of him. I am currently disabled with a largely undiagnosed condition that the docs can't figure out, and I damned sure haven't felt any need to start praying about it; if anything, it has reinforced my stance as an atheist. I don't realisticly think I'd be any different if it inexplicably started to actually kill me. I really enjoyed Heinlein's final book, "Job: A Comedy of Justice." An athiest on his deathbed wrote a book thumbing his nose at the whole concept of the "christian" afterlife! I would recommend reading it (even for laughs, the book is pretty funny!); it sheds some rather amusing perspectives to the afterlife most people probably never consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 The answer is rather simple really. Most of us who are atheists are atheists by default. We didn't choose to join a camp, an ism, or an ideal. Instead we became atheists through the process of elimination. Since this is the case how would a deathbed experience change anything? Will it suddenly make sense that there might be a god when years of hard thought and study have caused us to determine otherwise? It is likely that your friends are assuming we will decide to grab some fire insurance before checking out. The problem is, which carrier to buy from? Should we buy the xtian insurance, muslim, mormon, etc..., etc...? I've been an atheist for years now and I can tell you from my own experience that the further away from the xtian meme I move the less these questions of what is going to happen after death haunt me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Honestly, as a believer, I was terrified of death and hell. One never really knew if one was "truly saved". "What if I have been deceived by Satan", etc, etc. When I gave up my faith 6 years ago, the fear of what may be on the other side eased somewhat. And then, after reading the words of Robert Ingersoll, my mind rested. If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men.... What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel, to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena. -- Robert G. Ingersoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Well, my dad "converted" on his deathbed -- not toward Xianity but away from it. Not that he had ever been a fundie or anything nasty like that, but he had been a churchgoer as a young man and throughout his life, if questioned, he would profess some sort of nebulous belief in the bible and the christ myth. However, the day before he died, without anyone bringing the subject up, he just simply announced that "It can't possibly be true unless god is a cosmic asshole, and if that's the case, I want no part of it." He died in peace the next morning, and, I must say, I am very proud of him, rough language and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Wow, that is fascinating and says a lot about what we do to please family and/or deceive ourselves. Thanks for sharing. How did the family take it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philo Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 New here and hope you'all don't mind if I jump in. I like Vigile_del_fuoco1's comment The answer is rather simple really. Most of us who are atheists are atheists by default. We didn't choose to join a camp, an ism, or an ideal. Instead we became atheists through the process of elimination. Since this is the case how would a deathbed experience change anything? Would any last minute conversion be sincere anyway? I'm inclined to side with Woody Allen who said, "I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens. At the moment I don't fear death, but if I've got the time to contemplate death I think I will really be saddened at having to go . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmarlin Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 New here and hope you'all don't mind if I jump in. I like Vigile_del_fuoco1's comment The answer is rather simple really. Most of us who are atheists are atheists by default. We didn't choose to join a camp, an ism, or an ideal. Instead we became atheists through the process of elimination. Since this is the case how would a deathbed experience change anything? Would any last minute conversion be sincere anyway? I'm inclined to side with Woody Allen who said, "I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens. At the moment I don't fear death, but if I've got the time to contemplate death I think I will really be saddened at having to go . . . Welcome, Philo. I would have to agree with you. Very introspective! I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philo Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Thanks for the welcome. I'd spent some time here about a year ago but took a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I have been slowly evolving as an atheist within this last months and I have made my beliefs known to a few coworkers, most of whom believe in the God of the Bible, yet don't really practice their religions. I would never come out to some of my more devout coworkers. Well anyway the question came up of holding on to my atheism on my death bed. I gotta admit that one still makes me think. Could I do it? How do you veteren Atheists answer that one? What difference does it make if you don't? The sad thing is, if you are still this glued to mythology on your deathbed, you will die in doubt, just like the faithfull do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philo Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 This is one way to look at it. Almost every religion has different beliefs about death and what a person needs to do to enter the pearly gates. Even Christianity disagrees on the rewards and methods. Some believe a person goes strait to heaven others think you sleep for a while. Some think all's you have to do is utter the magic words, "Please forgive me" etc., and others teach that God requires something a little more. My point is that an atheist should reject any after death belief because an atheist regects any belief as futile. Besides, not even Christianity offers any kind of a consensus. An atheist might "lapse" at his death time and think all he needs to do is claim forgiveness, then find out after he dies that it was all pointless because he's going to be a cricket because reincarnation was the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Carrion Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I think I might bequeath my soul to Satan on my death bed....you know, just for shits and giggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I don't think I'll reconvert on my deathbed. Why would I? If I did convert, it wouldn't be a True Conversion because it would be for the wrong reason (fear). After having lived a life of peace with there being no gods, I don't see how dying would bring about any significant change. I don't plan to die in bed anyway... maybe above a bed on a swing holding a diesel-powered vibrator or something, but a quiet hospice-type death? That ain't for me, baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Mystica Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 My beliefs are so much in flux at the moment that I have *no idea* what I'll say on believe at the time of my death. I just hope that I have honest belief- whatever that belief may be. Yeah, the whole idea of death still freaks me out. I wish my religious group had not instilled that fear in me. I am not exactly happy with them right now. Not in the slightest. Oh- and I'm not an atheist, so I don't know if a question like this applies to ex-Christian theists as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I'm not afraid of death or dying so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I think I might bequeath my soul to Satan on my death bed....you know, just for shits and giggles. ....Well, why wait? Let me get you signed up right now... I watched my mother and father die, each years apart, and have learned that death can be a gradual and complex process. When my mother passed away, even though she was a devout christian, her only pleas were to thoxe around her to help her. When she lapsed into a semiconcious state with labored breathing, a contientious hospice worker gathered me and my siblings together, saying "....it's time..". Then, the worker explained that she had seen this state my mother was in with other similarly devoted families before, and that the dieing person can hang on miserably for days in that condition unless her family gives them permission to die. So, we all gathered around, and each of us spoke to her seperately, telling her we loved her and that it was okay for her to go now. Within 10 seconds after the last of us spoke, she gave her final breath. There was never any mention or need of gods. We were more important to each other than any god coild be to any of us. I'm proud of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Then, the worker explained that she had seen this state my mother was in with other similarly devoted families before, and that the dieing person can hang on miserably for days in that condition unless her family gives them permission to die. So, we all gathered around, and each of us spoke to her seperately, telling her we loved her and that it was okay for her to go now. Within 10 seconds after the last of us spoke, she gave her final breath. I often wonder if my family made a mistake by not telling my mother that it was ‘okay to go.’ My mother died in 1997 at home. I was just a few feet away when she took her final breath. The hospice nurse recommended that each family member do just as you did and tell my mother that it was okay to go (die), but we refused to do it. Our reasoning for this is because my mother had been dieing a slow death due to Multiple Sclerosis for years and made it clear that she did indeed want to die. Our fear was that our mother would resume consciousness and state angrily, ”I’m doing the best I can!” My mother’s last week on Earth was hell and I often wonder if we made a mistake by not taking the nurse’s advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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