CHURCH INDUCED RESTLESS LEG SYNDROM

[◊ Weezer ◊]

LOL.  No great earth shaking insight in this short statement.  Just a somewhat comical short story, and evidence that stress can cause physical symptoms.

 

The only time in my life I have had restless leg syndrome was during church services the last few months I kept going to church after I knew it was  superstitious nonsense.  It happened especially during the sermons.   When I could take it no longer, and stopped going, the restless legs problem disappeared.  I guess my legs were trying to tell me,  "let's get the h--- out of here!"

 

So, if you have RESTLESS LEG syndrome, ask yourself if they are trying to tell you something. 

[LogicalFallacy]

I get restless leg syndrome.

 

I'm not sure about your co-relation between stress and restless leg syndrome, nor your proposed causation.

 

As I have said, I also get it, always when I'm still, most usually when I'm sitting, sometimes in bed. My grandfather also gets it.

 

However it is well known that stress does cause physical symptoms, far to many on this site has experienced such. Stress and anxiety will cause muscle tremors and shaky legs, arms, fingers etc. However these are NOT restless leg syndrome. They are the result of adrenaline and other hormones being pumped into your body by your central nervous system. The symptoms of such usually disappear once the 'threat' has passed and the adrenaline has been used up.

 

 

 

 

[RachelSkates]

HAHA! This is great!!!! 

 

I think it is because it is both seated and immoble, blood clot inducing, but also VAPID and VACCUOUS and BORING AS HELL.  When I was in university, I sat long periods but it was cool stuff in the brain, like Romans and all. SOme sap raving about why God let the Cannanites gets wiped out  or trying to say yes, God will LOVE the smoke of all those poeple in hell, BUT HE IS NOT A PSYCHOPATH (but Hitler was------).......and you are there trying not to scream ........

 

Restless leg, restless brain, restless intenstines that want to empty, bladder full, eyes glazing, lusting at the choir director for diversion...........................and it is such a sunny and beautiful day for fishing and the whole moring is SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Weezer said:

LOL.  No great earth shaking insight in this short statement.  Just a somewhat comical short story, and evidence that stress can cause physical symptoms.

 

The only time in my life I have had restless leg syndrome was during church services the last few months I kept going to church after I knew it was  superstitious nonsense.  It happened especially during the sermons.   When I could take it no longer, and stopped going, the restless legs problem disappeared.  I guess my legs were trying to tell me,  "let's get the h--- out of here!"

 

So, if you have RESTLESS LEG syndrome, ask yourself if they are trying to tell you something. 

I have never fidgeted as much in my life as I did in those few short months after I began questioning and deconverted, when I was able to convince myself to show up at church for the sake of appearances. Restless brain doesn't even begin to cover it

[older]

9 hours ago, RachelSkates said:

HAHA! This is great!!!! 

 

I think it is because it is both seated and immoble, blood clot inducing, but also VAPID and VACCUOUS and BORING AS HELL.  When I was in university, I sat long periods but it was cool stuff in the brain, like Romans and all. SOme sap raving about why God let the Cannanites gets wiped out  or trying to say yes, God will LOVE the smoke of all those poeple in hell, BUT HE IS NOT A PSYCHOPATH (but Hitler was------).......and you are there trying not to scream ........

 

Restless leg, restless brain, restless intenstines that want to empty, bladder full, eyes glazing, lusting at the choir director for diversion...........................and it is such a sunny and beautiful day for fishing and the whole moring is SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Two upvotes for that one. A beautiful day ruined? YES!! Main reason I quit.

 

I suffered from narcolepsy, at any time during the service but particularly during the sermon.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 3/3/2018 at 3:32 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I'm not sure about your co-relation between stress and restless leg syndrome, nor your proposed causation.

 

 

I am not sure I understand your point.  Are you a medical expert?   If so, sorry if I didn't get everything correct.   But you and I know sitting through church can be stressful!!  And I am aware there are other things that can induce "nervous" reactions.  I am not a doctor,  but if I am not mistaken, restless legs do involve the nervous system.   I am also aware of unawareness, or denial, and that we don't always recognize the source of our "stress", and the resulting reactions, which is a cause of many "medical" problems.

If I misunderstood your post, please let me know.l

 

19 hours ago, older said:

 

I suffered from narcolepsy, at any time during the service but particularly during the sermon.

 

HA!  I had forgotten about that.  The last service I attended (over 25 years ago) my legs got restless before the sermon.  We were visiting relatives (He was an elder) and went to church with them.  We were sitting near the front.  I was trying real hard to not embarrass them, but could NOT stay awake during the sermon.  My wife jabbed me in the ribs and it startled me.  I got up in the middle of the sermon, walked out, and have never again been to a church service.

[LogicalFallacy]

58 minutes ago, Weezer said:

 

I am not sure I understand your point.  Are you a medical expert?   If so, sorry if I didn't get everything correct.   But you and I know sitting through church can be stressful!!  And I am aware there are other things that can induce "nervous" reactions.  I am not a doctor,  but if I am not mistaken, restless legs do involve the nervous system.   I am also aware of unawareness, or denial, and that we don't always recognize the source of our "stress", and the resulting reactions, which is a cause of many "medical" problems.

If I misunderstood your post, please let me know.l

 

Hi Weezer, I am going to be necessarily formal in my explanation as part of this is to do with critical thinking and correctly identifying the relationships between events and causes. 

 

First, no I am not a medical expert, but I am capable of identifying errors in logical reasoning between event A proposed cause B.

 

In this case you are saying that you have evidence that stress induced by being in church caused restless leg syndrome in you. This evidence is personal experience based. However your co-relation between stress and restless leg syndrome I think is in error.

 

All the medical research I've done on this syndrome indicates causes that does not include stress, though stress will no doubt affect it. However stress affects everything in your body so its a bit of a non sequitur.

 

What will bring on an episode of restless leg syndrome is sitting and being fairly inactive.... in a church for instance. But even sitting still is not the cause. It's merely one of the factors what will induce an episode.

 

Please read this article which discusses RLS in depth. https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Restless-Legs-Syndrome-Fact-Sheet

 

About a third down the page is "Causes". Unless I'm losing eyesight I didn't see stress as a cause.

 

Now some direct responses to your points:

 

"But you and I know sitting through church can be stressful!!  " This is very true. But you still have not shown any causation between stress and RLS.

"And I am aware there are other things that can induce "nervous" reactions." There are, again true, but not relevant to RLS unless shown otherwise.

"I am not a doctor,  but if I am not mistaken, restless legs do involve the nervous system. " It does, again this does not mean co-relation between RLS and stress, even though both include the nervous system.

"I am also aware of unawareness, or denial, and that we don't always recognize the source of our "stress", and the resulting reactions, which is a cause of many "medical" problems." Again true, but then you have to explain why I still get RLS while sitting at work, or home when I'm not stressed.

 

This is what I'm getting at, there is no link between stress and RLS. There is links between stress and muscle tremors etc, nervous jiggling, twitching etc. So I would need a medical diagnosis - are you suffering from RLS or from anxiety symptoms?

 

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I have RLS, and I also got major anxiety symptoms in church, and I have never seen any research that indicates stress is a cause of RLS.

 

I hope this cleared things up a bit?

 

Again sorry, I've been a bit of a party poop in what is otherwise a thread people find funny.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I have RLS, and I also got major anxiety symptoms in church, and I have never seen any research that indicates stress is a cause of RLS.

 

I see I'm not alone with this. I had a LOT of anxiety in church, mostly after I started questioning, to the extent that I was worried I'd have fullblown anxiety or panic attacks right in the pew. I also had a lot of anxiety before my deconversion simply due to the brainwashing, and the emotional manipulation and abuse, because that's what it is, with the fear tactics.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Again sorry, I've been a bit of a party poop in what is otherwise a thread people find funny.

 

 

I am having a hard time deciding if you are serious, or playing a game.  After reviewing a number of your posts on several topics, I decided it is a game, and think you really enjoy being a poop.  You certainly spend a lot of time and effort spreading it around.  Forgive me if i am wrong. 

[LogicalFallacy]

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I am having a hard time deciding if you are serious, or playing a game.  After reviewing a number of your posts on several topics, I decided it is a game, and think you really enjoy being a poop.  You certainly spend a lot of time and effort spreading it around.  Forgive me if i am wrong. 

 

Weezer can you please provide direct quotations from posts in several topics that do not include posts from the ToT which you think shows that I enjoy being a poop in serious forums?

 

Also, considering the serious nature and obvious effort I have gone to in my posts here what has lead you to even consider I might be "playing a game? Is it that I am disagreeing with your conclusions of stress being the cause of RLS? If I'm wrong there please provide some medical research that demonstrates this cause I sure would like to know.

 

(PS being a 'party poop', i.e. being serious when everyone is joking about a topic is different from "spreading poop around". Are you sure you have the correct usage?)

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Forgive my sarcasm above.  You evidently are obsessed with "knit picking" what people say, and I no longer am going to play the game with you. 

[LogicalFallacy]

36 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Forgive my sarcasm above.  You evidently are obsessed with "knit picking" what people say, and I no longer am going to play the game with you. 

You asked for clarification. I gave you clarfication.

 

I'm sorry you think I'm playing a game. I thought you were serious about stress causing RLS and felt it was worth pointing out this wasn't the case. I have been polite throughout. Obviously an opposing view is disconcerting to you so I will quit this thread. If you do find medical information backing what you said please post and tag me in and I'll make a full retraction and apology.

 

Regards

LF

[◊ Weezer ◊]

LF, you are taking life too seriously.  I did the original post with "tongue in cheek."  Perhaps I used the term "syndrome" too loosely, as it wasn't diagnosed by a professional, but my legs did get restless, and it was obviously related to the stress of sitting in church. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Weezer said:

Forgive my sarcasm above.  You evidently are obsessed with "knit picking" what people say, and I no longer am going to play the game with you. 

Weezer, I dont think you know LF too well, this is just the way he is. If your definition of nit picking is dissecting things rationally, then yes you can him a nit picker. I know he enjoys it though

[LogicalFallacy]

47 minutes ago, Weezer said:

LF, you are taking life too seriously.  I did the original post with "tongue in cheek."  Perhaps I used the term "syndrome" too loosely, as it wasn't diagnosed by a professional, but my legs did get restless, and it was obviously related to the stress of sitting in church. 

 

I have... err, trouble between distinguishing sarcasm and joke posts from serious posts without explicit indications of such... hence I have mistakenly taken the stress causing RLS as factual claim. Since I get both RLS and anxiety it was kinda poking the bee in the bonnet when I thought you were serious.

 

What @TruthSeeker0 said is correct. Sadly this inability to detect this stuff leads to a bit of confusion at work as well

 

Apologies for the confusion and any angst inadvertently caused.

[Beuthos]

4 hours ago, Weezer said:

LF, you are taking life too seriously.  I did the original post with "tongue in cheek."  Perhaps I used the term "syndrome" too loosely, as it wasn't diagnosed by a professional, but my legs did get restless, and it was obviously related to the stress of sitting in church. 

 

I think this is my first post here, but I've something to say.

 

Imagine you have RLS, a classified medical disorder which can cause sleepless nights and anxiety.  It affects your daily life and you tried all sorts of ways to mitigate the effect, like maybe adding more iron to your daily diet.  Then someone came along and said that RLS is caused by stress.  How would you feel?

 

I'm not a medical expert, but I feel that we should have more empathy towards others even when you are making a joke.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Beuthos said:

 

I think this is my first post here, but I've something to say.

 

Imagine you have RLS, a classified medical disorder which can cause sleepless nights and anxiety.  It affects your daily life and you tried all sorts of ways to mitigate the effect, like maybe adding more iron to your daily diet.  Then someone came along and said that RLS is caused by stress.  How would you feel?

 

I'm not a medical expert, but I feel that we should have more empathy towards others even when you are making a joke.

 I thought of saying this, but decided against it. Do you have any idea how much it annoys me, with a chronic condition, to be told exactly what is causing my condition, or how I can cure or treat it? I did think weezer was just being amusing, which is why I stopped myself. But your point still stands.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

2 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

 I thought of saying this, but decided against it. Do you have any idea how much it annoys me, with a chronic condition, to be told exactly what is causing my condition, or how I can cure or treat it? I did think weezer was just being amusing, which is why I stopped myself. But your point still stands.

 

I had no earthly idea my original post on this subject would offend anyone.  And I guess I don't understand your reactions.  I would think you would be glad to receive any information that might help you understand your situations.  

 

I didn't say what the exact cause of RLS was.  I said, "...... stress can cause physical symptoms."  And I will not back down from that statement.  As a matter of fact, the exact causes of RLS are not known.  I am not an M.D. but retired 13 years ago from working in a hospital as a Psychiatric Social Worker.  To refresh my memory on the subject I did some quick research.  Although the causes still aren't completely understood, there is a list of triggers, and stress is on the list.  Rachel Salas, M.D. who is a neurologist professor at John Hopkins University even says stress and anxiety are big restless legs triggers.

[LogicalFallacy]

8 hours ago, Weezer said:

I had no earthly idea my original post on this subject would offend anyone.

 

I don't think anyone is offended... I'm not. A few posts saying 'hey you are talking about an actual condition someone has be mindful of the situation' is not taking offense. I discourage, as another member put it, "Recreational Offense".

 

Quote

 And I guess I don't understand your reactions.

 

Here's to greater understanding 

 

Quote

To refresh my memory on the subject I did some quick research.  Although the causes still aren't completely understood, there is a list of triggers, and stress is on the list.  Rachel Salas, M.D. who is a neurologist professor at John Hopkins University even says stress and anxiety are big restless legs triggers.

 

Thanks for this info. Using this I was able to track down further info and I think we can clear this up.

 

The Connection Between Restless Legs and Stress

Based on what scientists understand about RLS, it's unlikely that stress itself is a "cause."

It's possible that for many people, stress triggers the onset of noticeable symptoms. However, it is likely that those that experience RLS would otherwise not have experienced as severe symptoms as they would have if stress were not present – with some experiencing possibly no symptoms at all.

Scientists are also open to the idea that stress does create RLS, but stress itself is a subjective experience and without understanding the exact cause of RLS, it's very difficult to link stress as the main trigger.

Regardless, doctors strongly believe that stress is related to the severity of RLS symptoms, indicating that stress reduction plays a crucial role in reducing the experience of RLS. Those that experience a great deal of stress tend to report a worsening of restlessness, difficulty sleeping, and more symptomatic restless legs.

 

http://www.progressivehealth.com/rls-stress.htm 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4964787/

 

TL;DR It's unknown exactly what causes RLS, though iron and dopamine levels are thought to play a big part. Stress has an impact on RLS (And everything else)

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I had no earthly idea my original post on this subject would offend anyone.  And I guess I don't understand your reactions.  I would think you would be glad to receive any information that might help you understand your situations.  

 

I didn't say what the exact cause of RLS was.  I said, "...... stress can cause physical symptoms."  And I will not back down from that statement.  As a matter of fact, the exact causes of RLS are not known.  I am not an M.D. but retired 13 years ago from working in a hospital as a Psychiatric Social Worker.  To refresh my memory on the subject I did some quick research.  Although the causes still aren't completely understood, there is a list of triggers, and stress is on the list.  Rachel Salas, M.D. who is a neurologist professor at John Hopkins University even says stress and anxiety are big restless legs triggers.

I wasnt offended by your post. I thought you were being tongue in cheek. And you weren't addressing someone with any condition there and telling them what causes their condition etc. The point I was making was that when you have a life long condition you naturally come to know quite a bit about it through your own drs and own research. While I understand people think they are being helpful, I prefer to leave it between myself and medical specialists. Listening to or taking the advice of others is something I will do only if they point me in the direction of medical studies etc. It can be downright dangerous to start taking people at their word especially if it involves treatment. The average person isn't a medical specialist. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Just one more comment and I will stop beating this dead horse.  Whether something is "caused", or "triggered", to me is splitting hairs.  If I do something to trigger a reaction, I, in a sense, "caused" it.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Just one more comment and I will stop beating this dead horse.  Whether something is "caused", or "triggered", to me is splitting hairs.  If I do something to trigger a reaction, I, in a sense, "caused" it.

I don't really agree with that, because you could have 10 people with the same condition and all of them arguing what triggered the condition because all experienced different things. Which is why, in regards to medical conditions, medical studies and research are much more important than personal subjective experience. 

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

Just one more comment and I will stop beating this dead horse.  Whether something is "caused", or "triggered", to me is splitting hairs.  If I do something to trigger a reaction, I, in a sense, "caused" it.

 

You worked in a hospital right? You must know this statement is incorrect when referring to medical conditions. Anxiety can be triggered by many things but what causes it is biological and psychological factors.

 

 But I agree. We are now splitting hairs. The main message for people to take away is that if you get stressed in church and your legs start shaking you do not nessesarily have RLS.  You just need to stop wasting your time in that place 

 

I saw a church bill board and it said "What is missing from ch_ _ ch"?

 

And I thought "ur god!"

 

Peace out all and have a good week!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

 But I agree. We are now splitting hairs. The main message for people to take away is that if you get stressed in church and your legs start shaking you do not nessesarily have RLS.  You just need to stop wasting your time in that place.

 

 

I'm glad we came to an agreement on one point.  However, my legs were not shaking.  It was the classic feeling deep inside my leg that I just HAD to move it.  But since it only happened in church, and went away when I stopped going, I guess it wasn't the full blown "syndrome".

 

CHEERS!

 

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

However, my legs were not shaking.

 

 

Splitting hairs my brother