LookingGlass Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Author's note: Please don't take this personally, and please no harsh replies, even if you feel so inclined. Thanks. I've been clicking around this website for a few weeks now. I've made a post or two in the forums, but mostly I've been reading. I've noticed a reoccuring trend in the comments made by community members that disturbs me a bit, and it is a general attitude of bitterness and sarcasm. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes blatant. I've seen instances where a christian will comment in the most diplomatic, reasonable way he can (and there are reasonable christians..not all of them are mindlessly fire-and-brimstone), only to be verbally ripped apart with comments ranging from the stupidity of his faith to his spelling errors. I actually see people commenting on the christian poster's spelling errors often, which is a bit surprising since it has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Even the webmaster displays this kind of attitude from time to time, like in the "becoming an ex christian," article. It was laced with so many generalizations that I found it hard to take seriously. My observations have left me wondering, can one become an ex-christian without becoming a bitter pessimist, or do the two go hand in hand? Does leaving one's faith eventually leave you an angry person in the end? Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone in the community, but I see this attitude very often. This site is very well organized and I appreciate the creator's intention to create a meeting place for people who've moved on. Yet I harbor no hatred against christians and would not put them all in the same category. Leaving my faith has been a very trying ordeal for me, but at the same time I don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire if being angry and cynical is all I'm destined for. Author's note: Please don't take this personally, and please no harsh replies, even if you feel so inclined. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 First of all, we will respond however we wish, because this is a forum of free expression. Secondly, most, if not all, the bitterness you see is justified. If you were lied to, cheated out of your money, pressured into conforming, and told your natural urges were wrong, wouldn't you be bitter? Third, Bitterness and anger are part of the process of deconversion. When the inital anger passes, one can move on to fully explore the freedom and knowledge of post-xian life. Fouth, not all of us are bitter. Myself, I'm not bitter, so much as angry over the atrocities commited by the so-called faithful. Should I not be angered by vile acts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingGlass Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 First of all, we will respond however we wish, because this is a forum of free expression. Understandable, but I didn't cause any harm to you so I don't see why I should be retaliated against. That was my reasoning. I just wanted to have a civil conversation. Secondly, most, if not all, the bitterness you see is justified. If you were lied to, cheated out of your money, pressured into conforming, and told your natural urges were wrong, wouldn't you be bitter? Third, Bitterness and anger are part of the process of deconversion. When the inital anger passes, one can move on to fully explore the freedom and knowledge of post-xian life. Fouth, not all of us are bitter. Myself, I'm not bitter, so much as angry over the atrocities commited by the so-called faithful. Should I not be angered by vile acts? I was going to add that many of you have been through lots of different scenarios, some more brutal than others, so I can see where you're coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I'm with you, LookingGlass... revenge and harsh treatment is not admirable, IMO.... but some posters aren't past the emotional point where they can be sympathetic and the posters have been extremely welcoming to the true seekers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shiva H. Vishnu Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I was going to add that many of you have been through lots of different scenarios, some more brutal than others, so I can see where you're coming from. Then why the question and the condescending tone? You're not the least bit bitter? Good for you. But others are a little bitter or lot bitter and you don't have enough imagination to figure out why? Are you asking for all the individual stories of the people here to serve as justification to you for some of the attitudes you see here? Read the testimonies. If you're a human, it will be easy to see why some of us are bitter. I daresay that those of us who appear unreasonably bitter to you probably feel, as I do, that they were spiritually raped. Would you stroll on to a rape survivor message board and start judging and critiquing every post, keeping track of every sign of bitterness? Your question would be unnecessary, IMHO, if you had an once of compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I daresay that those of us who appear unreasonably bitter to you probably feel, as I do, that they were spiritually raped. That's true. I have shared some personal information elsewhere on why I am angy with Christianity, for stealing a large portion of my life, but also that of someone I care for. I feel raped in that sense, but I am sober enough to realize that my anger and hurt will have dealt with, because it's not healthy to have those feelings in the long run. But as with all things, time heals all wounds, but for now, I need a place where I can vent about he mess the belief in Christianity made of my life. For everyone who listened to my story, and encouraged me, I am deeply thankful until the day I die. Without aforum such as this, who know how the story would have ENDED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingGlass Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 I apologize, I didn't mean to be condescending at all. I think my experience must have been a bit different than some others. I never felt lied to or "raped" as shiva h. vishnu put it, rather that I was a part of a group of people who fell for an extremely elaborate scam. I do feel angry and hurt, in a sense that what I thought was true turned out to be fantasy. I should have realized that this subject is a sensetive one and didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynus Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I see myself as inbetween Christian and athiest heading toward the latter. As such I can see the bitterness and understand and share some of it. OK maybe a lot of it. One word though is context. If I post an atiestic post on a Christian board I will get all types of rightous condemnation poured on my head, if I post an anti feminist message on a feminist board I will have my testicles threatened. This is a board for those with a grudge against Christianity, should not be a surprise that we are hostile to any mention of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 This community includes many individuals with a broad range of experiences. Many have had such damaging experiences relating to their faith and those who shared it that it is difficult for them to evince the moderate tone that you seem to find so easy. You needn't think that bitterness and anger is all you have to look forward to as an ex-Christian; it's entirely up to you. I would not characterize most of the people here as especially bitter or angry. I think we all react with anger toward certain Christians whose attitude toward us is less than tolerant (Dobson, Robertson, Phelps, Hovind, etc.) In these cases it's healthy to express one's self, don't you think? Welcome to the boards, LookingGlass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 There's a huge variety of people here- some aren't bitter at all, while others (we all know who they are) can't have a civil conversation if they even SUSPECT that a poster MAY be christian. I find that irritating myself, but don't be too quick to paint all ex-christians as bitter reactionaries. Most of us aren't. And those who are likely have their reasons. Losing your faith is a very individual thing. It doesn't automatically make you bitter. Hell, it doesn't automatically make you a better person... just usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I would like to point out that not every chirstian that comes here gets ripped. (Open_midned and Reach, back in the day, about three boards ago) I'd also like to point out that those of other faiths, or atheists, even, that come in and decide to rip on others here have a tendency to get, verbally, "torn a new one the size of the Lincoln Tunnel." People here all have their reasons, some are bitter, some aren't and some happen to like using sarcasm, especially when stupidity is percieved. Sometimes it gets taken to a disturbing extent, and more often than not people realize their own idocy in those cases and back down (and have even apologized in the past). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Looking Glass, Will say that at first your post *seems* to indicate *everyone* here at ExC is some kind of bitter expat_from_someones_religious_reality, and thus *warped* or *damaged goods*. Reading a bit more, I see you seem to have an honest question set and turn want to understand a bit more of something different. I'll letcha know that I am not particularly bitter, nor pissed off at any single thing, nor am I inclined to let a shitty past and parenting ruin my future, fuck with my kids rearing, or mess with the relationships with the women in my life. Enough of an optimist to expect that making little differences in lives best I can *might* pay off, seeing the elephant half fulla garden fertilizer, and that politics, dirty as they are tend to be transitory in nature. "Nothing stays the same" My views on *religion* have changed a hellova lot over many years. Lived long enough to expect when somethng around me needs done that as a working proponent of the 90/10 rule, I'll do it. Don't wait for a prayer or study group to make their recom'ds, dont wait for the Diety du jour to get off its ass and make things happen. We here are for the most part Ex-Christians. Did the full boat religious route, "waited patiently for God" and did the reverent things that we mere mortal beings are supposed to do while "gohwd" does it thing. Found that one will wait a long assed time for the fruitation of plans when nothing on the human end of life doesn't get completed. I've waited for Diety to do its part in vain. Won't be fooled again. Welcome to ExC, read the testimonies section if you haven't yet. If you have in part, then feel free to ask questions, and seek answers from individuals who have experienced the things you may have queries about. kevinL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I've seen instances where a christian will comment in the most diplomatic, reasonable way he can (and there are reasonable christians..not all of them are mindlessly fire-and-brimstone), only to be verbally ripped apart with comments ranging from the stupidity of his faith to his spelling errors. I think it's fair to say that most of the Christians that come here don't come with diplomacy or to be reasonable, most of the time they come here with all the arrogance we tried to escape from to rudely inform us "we were never True Christians " which is basically just like rubbing salt in an open wound. So why put on a big phony Christianly smile and pretend to be nice? That's not going to work anymore Anyway Christians have their choice of about a million websites on the web where they can go...... so then why come here? That's why I am glad Asimov is here.... he's like our resident attack dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianka Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 LG, what's the problem with a little bitterness (or a lot for that matter)? I have not seen a Christian get ripped apart unless they've made a bad impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I think this is a good example of what LG is asking about: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=7820&hl= ssb's wording wasn't exactly clear in several places, and she seems to be operating on some standard christian assumptions, but I don't think her questions or assumptions warranted the harsh response she got from some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingGlass Posted March 26, 2006 Author Share Posted March 26, 2006 Thanks for all your responses. Dianka, I've seen it a few times, but I didn't want to point to any threads or instances in particular for fear of throwing rocks in a glass house. But I do have a better understanding of the issue now. I do have my times of anger and depression as well. Everyone just deals with their own experiences in their own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shiva H. Vishnu Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I think this is a good example of what LG is asking about: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=7820&hl= ssb's wording wasn't exactly clear in several places, and she seems to be operating on some standard christian assumptions, but I don't think her questions or assumptions warranted the harsh response she got from some people. Most were exceedingly polite and informative if the first page is any indication, and even if there was some overreaction and kneejerk from one poster, it was just one poster who is easily ignored. The overwhelming majority were patiently trying to answer questions, the answers to which are readily available for anyone who really wants to know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Why So Bitter? Leaving Christianity is like leaving any abusive relationship. Some here have recently de-converted and have a lot of anger to vent. After 35 years, my wounds have healed but some scars remain. I don't hate Christians but I do despise the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Though I try to practice the Golden Rule, I will also practice Eye for an Eye when the situation calls for it. Xians flouncing their self-righteous religion - or anyone getting on a soapbox - around here is sure to get knocked on their ass. And Xianity isn't a religion most of us can respect; we are ex-xians precisely because we've seen Xianity for the anti-life, anti-human cult it is, and any religion that tells us we're worthless turds without Jesus and that even the most decent non-xian will roast forever is going to get hated. I do try to be polite and civil. But when someone smites my cheek, I am under no obligation to turn the other one for another blow, but rather to strike back! Respect to the respectable, I believe. Many of us have been burned by Xianity, and now that we're free, we're ready to give it what-for - and are under no moral obligation to do otherwise. Besides, sometimes the best seeds of rebellion against Xianity are sown by the hottest firebrands to burn against it. If our rants actually inspire a Xian to think a little on his or her cult and eventually find the way out, then so be it. Those who turn away from deconversion just because someone bad-mouthed their dead bastard on a stick are Xians most likely for emotional reasons, and no amount of polite reasoning could change their minds, anyway. Of course, this does not absolve us from being polite until it's clear we've got another troll on our hands. After all, we're human, and no god is going to make it all better for us - it's up to us alone to improve our world. Part of improving it comes through discerning better morality and living it out, and certainly respect for strangers and guests is part of that good morality. But in the end, Xianity is trash and deserves no respect, and anyone who tries to shove it in our faces will get their shoving back - with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Author's note: Please don't take this personally, and please no harsh replies, even if you feel so inclined. Thanks. Pleas don't take this personally, but your grammar sucks and whatever you believe is really, really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 And some of us just like to amuse ourselves by baiting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 ............ People here all have their reasons, some are bitter, some aren't and some happen to like using sarcasm, especially when stupidity is percieved. Sometimes it gets taken to a disturbing extent, and more often than not people realize their own idocy in those cases and back down (and have even apologized in the past). I see someone has been reading my Play Book! Blue Giant has given you a glimpse of my modus operandi. I'm DELIBERATELY a sarcastic asshole. I'm not "bitter" in the least. My preferred method of self-expression happens to be nasty, cynical and harsh. Why? First of all, because I LIKE it. I get a kick out of verbally harrassing stupid/religious people. And secondly, IF someone is supposed to be a Christian, then they should have mastered the art of "turning the other cheek". I want to see if they've got the goods. Ye olde "Fruit of the Spirit." If they can take my abuse with good-natured calm, then I'll usually back off. I will even apologize. BUT, if they attack me back, or whine about "persecution"? Then I go for the fucking jugular vein! I've found me a hypocrite, and I ain't backing off. So there. Y'see? There IS a method to my madness after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianka Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Author's note: Please don't take this personally, and please no harsh replies, even if you feel so inclined. Thanks. Pleas don't take this personally, but your grammar sucks and whatever you believe is really, really stupid. You have to be nice Assy, they are talking about you. Sometimes, after you've said something especially mean, I cry for all of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 You have to be nice Assy, they are talking about you. Sometimes, after you've said something especially mean, I cry for all of humanity. You can balance me out with estrogen-laden posts! And some of us just like to amuse ourselves by baiting people. Sometimes, yes we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I have to admit, I decided to try being a troll on the AI boards for just a bit... and I about got off on it. JK. But it was entirely TOO fun... I am ashmamed of myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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