LostinParis Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 While questioning a Christian about why God allows suffering, a common answer I hear is along the lines of robots verses free will, eg. Question: “Why didn’t God intervene to stop the holocaust?” Answer: “Because God didn’t create us to be robots, he gave us free will. The suffering was man’s fault not God’s fault.” How can I best address this ridiculous answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, LostinParis said: While questioning a Christian about why God allows suffering, a common answer I hear is along the lines of robots verses free will, eg. Question: “Why didn’t God intervene to stop the holocaust?” Answer: “Because God didn’t create us to be robots, he gave us free will. The suffering was man’s fault not God’s fault.” How can I best address this ridiculous answer? If Superman had been in Germany in the early 1940's and Superman saw what was happening would Superman have stood around and done nothing? A good video: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Like when God hardened Pharoah's heart repeatedly, that kind of non-intervention? Even when his faithful are asking him for help and he promised to give them whatever they asked in his name? Cop out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostinParis Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 @mymistake Hahahaha superman has better morals than god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted April 25, 2018 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2018 12 hours ago, LostinParis said: While questioning a Christian about why God allows suffering, a common answer I hear is along the lines of robots verses free will, eg. Question: “Why didn’t God intervene to stop the holocaust?” Answer: “Because God didn’t create us to be robots, he gave us free will. The suffering was man’s fault not God’s fault.” How can I best address this ridiculous answer? The most hard hitting, is to ask them to establish that free will exist's in the first place, before logic leaping to the claim that a god (which needs to first be established) has granted any free will at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Most people think that if we are morally responsible, the act of will must be properly "up to us," or "in our power," as Aristotle put it. Most Christians ALSO want God to be some sort of first, unmoved mover. Although they try to reconcile those two propositions, I think they fail to do so. If God is the first mover of your act of will, it is only on word games that your act of will is properly in your power. So they need to drop one or the other proposition. They may take recourse in a doctrine of a finite, struggling God, but then their religion does not go metaphysically ultimate so why bother? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 21 hours ago, LostinParis said: While questioning a Christian about why God allows suffering, a common answer I hear is along the lines of robots verses free will, eg. Question: “Why didn’t God intervene to stop the holocaust?” Answer: “Because God didn’t create us to be robots, he gave us free will. The suffering was man’s fault not God’s fault.” How can I best address this ridiculous answer? This is basically an implied slippery slope argument, which is fallacious. Even if we accept that God gave us free will, and does not want to reduce us to robots, it doesn't follow that any intervention would do this. Christians are evidently not opposed to God intervening in principle. He does it a number of times in Biblical stories. So the question of why not to stop the holocaust hasn't actually been answered, it has just been dodged. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostinParis Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 On 4/25/2018 at 10:04 PM, Joshpantera said: The most hard hitting, is to ask them to establish that free will exist's in the first place, before logic leaping to the claim that a god (which needs to first be established) has granted any free will at all. @JoshpanteraPerfect. Thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted April 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted April 27, 2018 On 4/25/2018 at 5:27 PM, disillusioned said: This is basically an implied slippery slope argument, which is fallacious. Even if we accept that God gave us free will, and does not want to reduce us to robots, it doesn't follow that any intervention would do this. Christians are evidently not opposed to God intervening in principle. He does it a number of times in Biblical stories. So the question of why not to stop the holocaust hasn't actually been answered, it has just been dodged. Making the sun stand still for Joshua, comes to mind. Sending Angels to intervene in human affairs, repeatedly, comes to mind. If god intervened in all variety of other ways in the bible, why not intervene in the holocaust? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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