Can An Atheist Be Spiritual?

[Godless Wonder]

I can't. For me the word "spiritual" is taintied with the idea of superstition, and has always, for as long as I can remember, invoked ideas of flaky, nebulous, pie-in-the-sky careless irresponsible thinking. Spirituality has no good connotations for me.

[philo]

Antlerman,

 

 

I am trying to recognize that people are responsible for their choices, rather that always blaming religion for their actions. If a religious doctrine taught it is God's will to slaughter helpless children with a sledge hammer, for me to act upon that says something about me.

 

I knew we were talking the same language! Here too . . .

 

Do people learn ethics from religious doctrines, or do they adopt, create, and promote religious views that suit their values? I would say the latter. Man creates God in his own image. Those that made God a murderer of infants are fucked in the head. Those who find it acceptable are of the same defective character.

 

About a year ago I wrote an article on why I defended discussing the god idea. My assumption mimics your comment. Man has been creating God in his own image . . . then using that idea of God to justify unethical behavior. DOne in the right way and from a rational and scientific perspective, it is possible to discuss the god idea. My assumption when further though. I was under the opinion (at the time), that no logical concept of God can be ascertained, until all the old concepts of God and the traditional ways of discovering God are replaced with a genuine appreciation for reason and "scientific" methods of investigation.

 

The question is, that could easily lead to another thread: Do people learn ethics from religious doctrines, or do they adopt, create, and promote religious views that suit their values? I would say the latter.

 

For the life of me, I cannot understand why people will allow religious ideas to infultrate their minds and cause them to do immoral and unethical things. I am at a loss for words regarding this phenomena. To be sure there is no such thing as evil in the religious sense, however, the "evils" that religious men/woman have done in the name of God are definately evil. These days I actually consider it one's moral obligation to break from religion, that is, if they want to be good and ethical.

 

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions." Blaise Pascal

 

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." Susan B. Anthony, (1820-1906), American feminist leader and suffragist.

 

"Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses." - Arthur C. Clarke. (18th February 2004, The Onion AV Club interview.)

 

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." Steven Weinberg - Nobel Laureate

 

Never did find the quote I was looking for.

[jrmarlin]

This is a funny thread. Most non-Xians I know are highly spiritual. They just don't fall prey to the trappings of religious endeavors that only serve to brainwash and dictate their behavior. This category of Non-Xians most certainly includes Atheists and Agnostics. In fact, a lot of those folks are more "doing" oriented than speaking...They don't talk the talk - but they walk it. And there is a big difference between the two. Something most Xians fall grossly short on...

[Reverend AtheiStar]

Can an atheist be spiritual and what’s your definition of spirituality?

 

I was a Christian for about 20 years and thought that I was spiritual because of my beliefs. When I became an agnostic (10 years), I also thought that I was spiritual but for different reasons. I defined spirituality then as a mental attitude I had towards life and others. I’ve been an atheist now for about 3 years, and spirituality has become rather pointless.

 

So what’s spirituality? Is it some quest that people have to define god? Is it a mental attitude that someone has about philosophical and religious ideas? Is someone spiritual if they seek to live by higher principles in morality and ethics? Does a person stop being spiritual if they become an atheist?

 

Any ideas?

 

I thought that spirituality was anything having to do with deities, souls, afterlives, spirits, ghosts, prayers and other silly imaginary nonsense. The word, itself, leaves a bad taste in my mouth and even if another definition can be offered I still would want nothing to with it. It has a stain on it that can never be removed.

[philo]

Reverend AtheiStar, I tend to agree, the term doesn't seem to apply to atheists and other non-believers. I think the problem is that people think that dynamics like ethics, morals, compassion, love, a sense of oneness, etc., comes from the "spirit or supernatural world." My experience was that when I became and atheist, spirituality became meaningless for me. But better, I cut the connection with the spirit world. One example, I did not loose my sense of ethics, on the contrary, I became more ethical and in tune with humanity. Where I gained was in recognizing that my behavior was not linked to a god.

 

jrmarlin

 

This is a funny thread. Most non-Xians I know are highly spiritual. They just don't fall prey to the trappings of religious endeavors that only serve to brainwash and dictate their behavior.

 

Would you agree that spirituality is term that should probably only be applied to the religious? Or so you still make a connection between spirituality and some form of supernatural power?

[Reverend AtheiStar]

Reverend AtheiStar, I tend to agree, the term doesn't seem to apply to atheists and other non-believers. I think the problem is that people think that dynamics like ethics, morals, compassion, love, a sense of oneness, etc., comes from the "spirit or supernatural world." My experience was that when I became and atheist, spirituality became meaningless for me. But better, I cut the connection with the spirit world. One example, I did not loose my sense of ethics, on the contrary, I became more ethical and in tune with humanity. Where I gained was in recognizing that my behavior was not linked to a god.

 

jrmarlin

 

It sure doesn't. Just look at the word: "spirit - uality." I don't believe in spirits. In fact, the very idea is insulting to my intelligence. How about this? We look at the definition of the word:

 

spir·i·tu·al·i·ty n. pl. spir·i·tu·al·i·ties

The state, quality, manner, or fact of being spiritual.

The clergy.

Something, such as property or revenue, that belongs to the church or to a cleric. Often used in the plural

 

spir·i·tu·al adj.

Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.

Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.

Of, from, or relating to God; deific.

Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.

Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.

 

n.

 

A religious folk song of African-American origin.

A work composed in imitation of such a song.

Religious, spiritual, or ecclesiastical matters. Often used in the plural.

 

Do any of these apply to nonbelievers? I don't know about everyone else, but I am disqualified and damn proud!

[The Sage Nabooru]

The question is, that could easily lead to another thread: Do people learn ethics from religious doctrines, or do they adopt, create, and promote religious views that suit their values? I would say the latter. Man creates God in his own image. Those that made God a murderer of infants are fucked in the head. Those who find it acceptable are of the same defective character.

 

That is an interesting concept. So perhaps a violent person creates a religion of violence (such as Muhammad and Islam), and other already violent people are drawn to it because to seems to offer them an excuse for their violent impulses?

[philo]

The Sage Nabooru

 

So perhaps a violent person creates a religion of violence (such as Muhammad and Islam), and other already violent people are drawn to it because to seems to offer them an excuse for their violent impulses?

 

Interesting way to look at the situation. I think it could be true in many cases. Reminds me of this quote:

 

"Religion . . . With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." Steven Weinberg - Nobel Laureate

 

Speaking from personal experience, I know that when I became a part of Christainity I had to do as the religion counseled me to do. I detached myself from some family members and friends because I was taught that they were evil and would influence me. SO glad I don't have to think that way anymore.