Update left church

[Mothernature]

Well, I haven't written a lot on here, but I read constantly, just not logged in. This site is very helpful. I am happy to say that I have not been to church since September and am feeling better because of it! My husband still goes and there is constant tension on Sunday morning. We haven't discussed it as I feel that would be a breaking point for us. It will come up at some point but I'm holding off for now as I continue to read and learn. After the last scandal with the Catholic church I told him I just couldn't support them anymore and would not be attending. There is still the issue with the kids. I have been letting them go with him every other week (thinking if we were divorced that would be how it would work anyway). He's not happy about it but we have avoided major yelling matches at this time. First communion is this year for one of my kids and my husband has already signed up for it. Not sure how to handle that. I would want to be there for a special ceremony but don't want to support it. Also, my child will probably be more excited about going to church to have a special celebration, which will work against me, but I'm hoping it will be short lived. Religion sure knows how to hook and keep people.

 

Also, circumstances worked out so that we've switched the kids to a public school instead of catholic school, so I'm really happy about that.

 

The other hard part is answering the kids questions. I've been telling them that mommy and daddy have different beliefs and that they can make up their own mind. However, when they ask if something is real, like angels, and they are getting two different answers they are confused by it. I'm not sure how this will affect them long term. My husband can answer with authority b/c he really believes it and I always go with the evidence but it's not as nice or comfortable or firm, so not sure I'm winning that one. I don't like the idea of them thinking one of us is right and one of us is wrong about everything, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to deal with those situations, without coming out on the bad side. Any advice is always welcome!

Thanks

[Geezer]

1 hour ago, Mothernature said:

Well, I haven't written a lot on here, but I read constantly, just not logged in. This site is very helpful. I am happy to say that I have not been to church since September and am feeling better because of it! My husband still goes and there is constant tension on Sunday morning. We haven't discussed it as I feel that would be a breaking point for us. It will come up at some point but I'm holding off for now as I continue to read and learn. After the last scandal with the Catholic church I told him I just couldn't support them anymore and would not be attending. There is still the issue with the kids. I have been letting them go with him every other week (thinking if we were divorced that would be how it would work anyway). He's not happy about it but we have avoided major yelling matches at this time. First communion is this year for one of my kids and my husband has already signed up for it. Not sure how to handle that. I would want to be there for a special ceremony but don't want to support it. Also, my child will probably be more excited about going to church to have a special celebration, which will work against me, but I'm hoping it will be short lived. Religion sure knows how to hook and keep people.

 

Also, circumstances worked out so that we've switched the kids to a public school instead of catholic school, so I'm really happy about that.

 

The other hard part is answering the kids questions. I've been telling them that mommy and daddy have different beliefs and that they can make up their own mind. However, when they ask if something is real, like angels, and they are getting two different answers they are confused by it. I'm not sure how this will affect them long term. My husband can answer with authority b/c he really believes it and I always go with the evidence but it's not as nice or comfortable or firm, so not sure I'm winning that one. I don't like the idea of them thinking one of us is right and one of us is wrong about everything, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to deal with those situations, without coming out on the bad side. Any advice is always welcome!

Thanks

 

Deconversion is difficult enough on its own, but even more so when a spouse isn't on board and children are involved. I'm sorry your journey out of religion is even more difficult than it should be. I hope you can work out a solution that both you and your husband can tolerate. 

[MOHO]

@Mothernature,

 

Even though it's difficult it is unlikely that your marriage will become a statistic. I've read stats that say 50% of unequally yoked marriages fail but those studies don't take marriage longevity into account. At least not any I have found. Mrs MOHO and I have been together for 20 years and each time we get into it over religion we real it back in. Other things like my proclivity for alone time are bigger issues. (Took her to din din last night. Good times!)

 

I know It's a real bugger when your spouse is so devout. Wify pooh questions EVERYTHING - except when it comes to religion. Any discussion - even with references to authors and historians - results in pure anger on her part.

 

The constant tension takes its toll and what works for us is to take measures to reduce the tension. Take a mini-vacation. Take the kids (how old?) to Yucky Cheese. Ask Mr. Mothernature to agree to a cease fire. Bring the tension down for a couple weeks - or even through the holiday season. You can always resume the discussions later and you'll likely both be in a better place then. 

 

Keep us posted. 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

My own bias is for the kids future. Helping them see through programming to find reality is important. It may seem comforting to believe in angels until they actually need one to show up, and then they either get it or make up excuses for a fake god having a "better plan".

Ceremonies like first communion make it seem like they are doing something really important, due to the costumes and pageantry, and involvement (and encouragement) of many adults. All it is really is a re-enforcement of a series of myths that are used to control their minds and emotions.

 

Kids are usually inquisitive, and can often see through baloney (other times not). I'd say keep telling them the truth, ask them questions that help them question beliefs over reality.

 

Are angels real? Well, apart from these stories you are told, have you seen anything in your own life to make you think they are real?

Do adults always tell the truth? Can adults believe things that aren't real? (That's a big one). Why have people created so many religions (if they aren't aware of other religions)?

 

[TruthSeeker0]

48 minutes ago, Fuego said:

My own bias is for the kids future. Helping them see through programming to find reality is important. It may seem comforting to believe in angels until they actually need one to show up, and then they either get it or make up excuses for a fake god having a "better plan".

Ceremonies like first communion make it seem like they are doing something really important, due to the costumes and pageantry, and involvement (and encouragement) of many adults. All it is really is a re-enforcement of a series of myths that are used to control their minds and emotions.

 

Kids are usually inquisitive, and can often see through baloney (other times not). I'd say keep telling them the truth, ask them questions that help them question beliefs over reality.

 

Are angels real? Well, apart from these stories you are told, have you seen anything in your own life to make you think they are real?

Do adults always tell the truth? Can adults believe things that aren't real? (That's a big one). Why have people created so many religions (if they aren't aware of other religions)?

 

Or then not. I didn't fully understand what exactly I was confirming at age 15 in the church, all I felt was parental pressure to do the right thing, it was just expected. I wasn't excited at all, in fact I dreaded it.

The one thing I do remember vividly is that when we were expected to go to communion after two weeks of classes and be confirmed in front of our families, one of the boys declined, and in doing so, obviously declared himself a non believer right then and there. I remember having a lot of respect for such a brave act, there's no way I'd have had that amount of defiance at that age even if I knew myself to be a non believer.

[DanForsman]

Wow. Here you are facing all these very difficult situations just because you've trusted yourself to be able to determine what is and isn't true and found your religion lacking. I'm truly sorry for you, Mothernature, and wish you all the best moving forward. If the tension seems too great it may be time to make a move. It doesn't sound like you really know where your husband is going to go in response to your dropping out of the faith and he can't know where you intend to go with your new world view. He is worried and one part of the cross wiring job the church does is blame the husband if his wife (or children) fall away from the faith. My advice of late is to try to downgrade the tention by focusing on what you think can still be salvaged in the relationship. I don't think it is necessary for you to give specific reasons for losing you faith (potentially a source of bitter conflict) but rather just to make as clear as possible that after a lot of careful thought and research you have come to the conclusion that christianity is not based on truth. You appreciate how difficult this change in you is for him to accept.You don't look down on Christians but Christianity isn't something for you. You are completely fine with him practicing his religion; you're not planning on him changing his mind just as you don't want him working to change yours. A fight takes participation from both parties. Never raise you voice and try to hear what your husband is saying. Expect him to be on edge. On the other hand you don't have to discuss anything you don't want to and you don't have to know everything about why you've changed your mind. You can say I don't know and stick with that just as you can say I'll need time to think about what you're asking me now.Then hopefully you can agree that religion is going to be more or less  an out of bounds subject and you can turn your attention to whatever positive interactions you envision taking place between the two of you now that the relationship has changed. Spend some prep time thinking of enjoyable things you can still do together (assuming you believe in salvaging the marriage). I think it would be too much to include negotiations regarding the children in the first discussion. Really if you are unable to see a mutually envisioned satisfactory relationship between the two of you and beyond defining it have also actually had enough time to try out the new arrangements and to have successfully made them work then prospects of working out reasonable agreements regarding the children won't have a very high probability of success.These problems come just when you deserve to be congratulated. You've absolutely done the right thing to ask honest questions  and pretty much everyone here has come to the same conclusion you have. With more time you'll see that the puzzle itself is very simple to solve while the extreme complexities all have to do with the way Christianity is presented and packaged. You should be very proud of yourself for caring so much about the truth. You are moving forward with your life in the best possible way and will become more and more capable of dealing with difficult situations by continuing to rely on your own good judgment. Congratulations!!

[ToHellWithMe]

22 hours ago, Mothernature said:

I have been letting them go with him every other week (thinking if we were divorced that would be how it would work anyway)

I like the way you think. Such calm, logical justice in that decision. I hope your husband is sensible enough to appreciate it as well.

 

22 hours ago, Mothernature said:

However, when they ask if something is real, like angels, and they are getting two different answers they are confused by it.

 

Not sure what you're worried about here. Confusion is inevitable in life. People are equipped to deal with it. Kids are smarter than they let on and in any case they're very adaptable. Besides, if there's a doubter as near them as you are, it's not going to be an enormous challenge, as the fear of questioning things is primarily the fear of social consequences.

 

In any case I wouldn't push it. Even secular kids might have their own patterns of magical thinking, and even if it shouldn't be reinforced with praise, I don't feel like it should be opposed. But that's just my preference.

[Blue elephant]

There are more viewpoints than just the two on many questions of religion and social issues. If your child is coming up to First Communion, that is about seven or eight. You can inform them briefly about the beliefs of Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism. 

 

And when it comes to what happens after we die, well no one really knows. The singer Iris DeMent sings a song about this called “Let the mystery be”.

 

As your children are growing up, it is useful for them to have some idea of the beliefs of the major religions. These beliefs are woven all through society and literature.

 

They will learn to think for themselves. It is very hard to make sense of people dying in the prime of their life from car accidents and cancer. Christian answers for this are very “thin” in their explanatory power.

 

I deconverted long before I married and had children. But I sent my children to an independent Christian school for primary school, with the instruction that they were to observe how these Christians acted as well as what they were taught. They then went to Catholic schools for years 7 to 10. After that, one decided to go to a public school for years 11 and 12. The other child started university after year 10, instead of completing high school.

 

The younger child got baptised by immersion at the end of year 6 btw. I think my husband has a very vague deist / liberal Christian belief still.

 

So .... in summary, your children will probably think their way through all of this.

[Mothernature]

Thanks for all the advice. You guys tend to keep things simple and clear, and help me to see differing points of view, whereas I tend to catastraphise the situation. There is some good sound advice in your words. Thanks.