JohnnyWishbone Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: They were insatiably greedy in their past lives. Christ! That place is going to be overcrowded. Do these ghost's ever get out? And does Buddhism really have a hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 22, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, JohnnyWishbone said: Christ! That place is going to be overcrowded. Do these ghost's ever get out? And does Buddhism really have a hell? In the condensed version, there are 10 planes of existence, a few of which are similar to hell. The ghosts eventually get out, though it takes many lifetimes. They are able to reincarnated in a higher plane of existence-- maybe a tapeworm or meerkat. Again, I give these ideas nothing more than a chuckle, same as i would jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: In the condensed version, there are 10 planes of existence, a few of which are similar to hell. The ghosts eventually get out, though it takes many lifetimes. They are able to reincarnated in a higher plane of existence-- maybe a tapeworm or meerkat. Again, I give these ideas nothing more than a chuckle, same as i would jesus. Well at least they have options, other than the 1 door Jesus offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 5:47 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said: Everything is an illusion, per the Buddha. How could an illusion say anything? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 23, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2019 58 minutes ago, mwc said: How could an illusion say anything? mwc What he was saying is that our perceptions, and even our way of perceiving, are illusory, preventing us from seeing reality as it really is. Like The Matrix; and most people never find out that taking the red pill (Dharma) is an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: What he was saying is that our perceptions, and even our way of perceiving, are illusory, preventing us from seeing reality as it really is. Like The Matrix; and most people never find out that taking the red pill (Dharma) is an option. But he's an illusion. Everything's illusion. You're an illusion. I'm an illusion. This conversation is an illusion. As an illusion it would be unwise to take advice from other illusions in a world of illusions. Don't you realize both the red and blue pills are illusions? There is no spoon. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 23, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2019 40 minutes ago, mwc said: But he's an illusion. Everything's illusion. You're an illusion. I'm an illusion. This conversation is an illusion. As an illusion it would be unwise to take advice from other illusions in a world of illusions. Don't you realize both the red and blue pills are illusions? There is no spoon. No. My perception of you is illusory; but there is a "real you". There is a "real" me; but your perception of me (and often, my own) is illusory. It's not that nothing is as it seems; it's that nothing is as it seems to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: No. My perception of you is illusory; but there is a "real you". There is a "real" me; but your perception of me (and often, my own) is illusory. It's not that nothing is as it seems; it's that nothing is as it seems to us. Says an illusion based on what another illusion is reported as having said. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 23, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, mwc said: Says an illusion based on what another illusion is reported as having said. mwc What the Buddha was trying to convey is that there is an ultimate reality (enlightenment)--the way things really are; but, in order to attain it, we must realize, and let go of, our own misperceptions. Did we not all come to be ex-christians as a result of realizing, and letting go of, certain perceptions we had about life and reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: What the Buddha was trying to convey is that there is an ultimate reality (enlightenment)--the way things really are; but, in order to attain it, we must realize, and let go of, our own misperceptions. Did we not all come to be ex-christians as a result of realizing, and letting go of, certain perceptions we had about life and reality? But the Buddha is just an illusion. How can we trust an illusion? Perhaps illusion is more of a synonym for temporary or transitory? Things are always in flux. So the concept of permanence is really what is being discussed? But what do I know? I'm just an illusion. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 23, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, mwc said: But the Buddha is just an illusion. How can we trust an illusion? Perhaps illusion is more of a synonym for temporary or transitory? Things are always in flux. So the concept of permanence is really what is being discussed? But what do I know? I'm just an illusion. mwc Yes. Permanence and impermanence is one of the major illusory perceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Yes. Permanence and impermanence is one of the major illusory perceptions. Or is it? It might be an illusion. You imagine the Buddha was real. That I am real. That you are real. That we work through an illusion to attain the Real. But what, if that were to happen, it is discovered that it is also just illusion based on illusions. Illusions all the way down. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 23, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, mwc said: Or is it? It might be an illusion. You imagine the Buddha was real. That I am real. That you are real. That we work through an illusion to attain the Real. But what, if that were to happen, it is discovered that it is also just illusion based on illusions. Illusions all the way down. mwc Well, you know my personal philosophy: the only thing I can be sure of is that my consciousness exists; everything else is just window dressing. cogito ergo sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 23, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 12:47 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said: Everything is an illusion, per the Buddha. According to Nihilism everything is meaningless. So are we living a meaningless illusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 23, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: According to Nihilism everything is meaningless. So are we living a meaningless illusion? You should pray about it. The holy spirit will guide you, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 24, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2019 It is an interesting question, though @LogicalFallacy. I observe no inherent or intrinsic meaning in life. It seems we exist for no other reason than to exist. However, I also observe that we each have the potential to assign whatever meaning we choose to our lives through our thoughts, words, and actions. "No fate but what we make" (allowing each of us to become our own de-terminator ). In this regard, existence is simultaneously meaningless and yet filled with meaning. As to illusion, I observe that many of the "meanings" I have assigned to my own life have turned out to have been, as mwc pointed out, temporary and impermanent, much more illusory than I would have imagined at the time of the original assignment. This is not to say that said "meanings" were, in fact, meaningless; rather, they were simply not as significant as the emotion and/or logic of the moment suggested. And, perhaps that, in and of itself, has a meaning all its own. From this perspective, and I admit to a degree of discomfort with this conclusion, it could be argued that we (or, at least, I) have lived a meaningless illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 24, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2019 Illusion is not the same as hallucination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 24, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2019 29 minutes ago, florduh said: Illusion is not the same as hallucination. Nor is it the same as delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 25, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 12:10 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said: It is an interesting question, though @LogicalFallacy. I observe no inherent or intrinsic meaning in life. It seems we exist for no other reason than to exist. However, I also observe that we each have the potential to assign whatever meaning we choose to our lives through our thoughts, words, and actions. "No fate but what we make" (allowing each of us to become our own de-terminator ). In this regard, existence is simultaneously meaningless and yet filled with meaning. As to illusion, I observe that many of the "meanings" I have assigned to my own life have turned out to have been, as mwc pointed out, temporary and impermanent, much more illusory than I would have imagined at the time of the original assignment. This is not to say that said "meanings" were, in fact, meaningless; rather, they were simply not as significant as the emotion and/or logic of the moment suggested. And, perhaps that, in and of itself, has a meaning all its own. From this perspective, and I admit to a degree of discomfort with this conclusion, it could be argued that we (or, at least, I) have lived a meaningless illusion. I generally agree. I also don't think there is intrinsic meaning in life. That is, there is no external force that consciously imbues meaning into the universe. (whether that be god or some form of spiritual/supernatural force.) I think ultimately our lives have the meaning we give it. I am reminded of this quote by Carl Sagan “The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life's meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 On 5/25/2019 at 9:49 PM, LogicalFallacy said: I also don't think there is intrinsic meaning in life. That is, there is no external force that consciously imbues meaning into the universe. If there was a god, how would that give us meaning? Is it just the mysterious "He has a plan"? Or is our meaning purely to entertain the bored super-being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Wertbag said: If there was a god, how would that give us meaning? Is it just the mysterious "He has a plan"? Or is our meaning purely to entertain the bored super-being? Well if you think back to your Christian days you (Well I did at least) thought I was part of Gods plan and so on, and this creates a very comfortable feeling. It's like knowing someone loves you - it gives more meaning etc. What I call the external force, except we are talking on a universal scale. I'm not sure about attempting to impart intention to a supposed God. It could be like my dog and I. I'm not sure she's intelligent enough to consider that I give her life meaning, but she does have meaning for me if I'm in the 'God' position. And it's not a boredom thing. Of course the relationship between Us and God is greater than between us and ants, and if that is the case then I don't know what his intention is, but I do wonder why such a god would be worried about the goings on of humans down to the clothes they wear or their sexuality. I have never once looked at an ants nest and wondered if I should burn it because there are some ants not doing stuff the way I'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 27, 2019 Author Share Posted May 27, 2019 LOL. I am cracking up so hard, oh mercy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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