What Is A "real" Christian?

[Guest no_turning_back]

in response to this question originally posted under the "I Am A Christian Anti-fundamentalist" topic:

 

"But let me ask, mcmilliron, what is a "real" Christian?"

 

while i am not mcmilliron, i am going to answer this question to the best of my ability. while i realize i might as well be throwing myself to the wolves, i hope that you'll at least take the time to read and reflect.

 

i'd like to think of myself as a real Christian & that is because i acknowledge, accept and try my best to apply the following:

 

- the knowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, my Saviour, both divine and human. He died for my sins, that i might be forgiven & have the gift of eternal life in Heaven.

 

- that i abide by the Lord's commandments, but don't twist those commandments to my advantage, or act like a hypocrite

 

- that i love my neighbor, and do not present myself as "Holier than thou" or put myself on any kind of pedestal. i am not full of pride, rather humble & acknowledge the fact that everything i am and everything i have is attributed to God.

 

- i understand that i am not to judge or discriminate, for i am far from perfect or sinless myself. “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” John 8:7

 

- when i do fall into sin, which all of us will & unfortunately often do, i sincerely repent and ask God for his forgiveness.

 

- i now realize that our life on earth is all part of our test. the test to determine who will persevere under trial. who will get caught up in worldly views & worship the things of this earth, and who will devote their life on earth to God above? who will give up on God when "the going gets tough", or who will turn to Him for the strength to press on? who will trust in humans more than they trust in God?

 

- i realize that every single day, every single thing in my life is a blessing, a gift from God. i believe that which God has made, God can also take away.

 

- when i experience troubles or hard times, or witness corruption & destruction in the world around me, i don't have the audacity to ask "why or how could God let this happen"? i wholeheartedly believe that it is all part of God's plan. i don't curse His name, or turn my back on Him simply because things aren't going my way. i have faith enough to believe that God will deliver, and although i may not always understand His reasoning at the time, I have to trust that there is one & persevere under trial.

 

this is not to say that i am any better than anyone reading this. this is only to help define what i think the definition of a "real" Christian is. i went 25 years of my life trying to fill an empty void in my heart, trying to find some way to lift myself out of the depths of despair. 4 years ago i would have made fun of someone like myself..slinging out the "Jesus freak", or "Bible beater" insults. it wasn't until i opened my heart to God that the void disappeared. that didn't happen by any means of brainwashing or human intervention, as many would like to think. i simply couldn't deny God's presence in my life, once i sought Him & it became evident in EVERYTHING around me. the undeniable peace and happiness i began to feel is something that no earthly pleasures can bring. my prayers were being answered, left and right. everything began to fall into place & my eyes had been opened. everyday i continue to grow spiritually, and everyday God finds new ways to remind me of His many blessings, his unending love, grace and mercy. i hope and pray that you will make room for God in your heart again someday.

 

i will end this with a quote from C.S. Lewis' (former atheist) "Mere Christianity":

 

"Now that I am a Christian I do have moods in which the whole thing looks very improbable: but when I was an atheist I had moods in which Christianity looked terribly probable. This rebellion of your moods against your real self is going to come anyway. That is why Faith is such a necessary virtue: unless you teach your moods "where they get off", you can never be either a sound Christian or even a sound atheist, but just a creature dithering to and fro, with its beliefs really dependent on the weather and the state of its digestion."

[Taphophilia]

You obviously have not bothered to read any of our testimonies explaining why we left Christianity and you make a lot of assumptions about us.

 

You do know that John 8:7 (the whole story of the woman caught in adulltry) isn't in the Autographs (Original manuscripts) don't you? It was added later by a scribe who thought it should be in there.

[BenjaminHaag]

while i am not mcmilliron, i am going to answer this question to the best of my ability. while i realize i might as well be throwing myself to the wolves, i hope that you'll at least take the time to read and reflect.

 

Couldn't resist...

 

Firstly, "mcmilliron", whoever he/she/it is, by all accounts approached this online community with what was an irrelevant and silly attempt to "witness" rather than engage in honest and frank...and respectful discussion. Talking at, rather than talking to, and doing so with a thinly veiled and trite agenda, is I would hazard to say why oh so many Evangelically oriented types piss people off. So whether you are throwing yourself to the proverbail wolves or not may well depend on what your point is...

 

i'd like to think of myself as a real Christian & that is because i acknowledge, accept and try my best to apply the following:

 

See, I'd stop you right here; I've heard from more than one source that calling oneself a "real Christian" gets you a ten-yard Pride penalty. Then again, most of my sources make self-flagellation (and not the fun kind, either) an Olympic sport.

 

- that i abide by the Lord's commandments, but don't twist those commandments to my advantage, or act like a hypocrite

 

Once again, according to Christian ethics, everyone is fallible, corrupt, fallen (see "self-flagellation," above), ergo unable to do this all the time and everywhere, ergo no Christian can be a "true Christian." All of which seems to put the would-be believer into an impossible position.

 

- that i love my neighbor, and do not present myself as "Holier than thou" or put myself on any kind of pedestal. i am not full of pride, rather humble & acknowledge the fact that everything i am and everything i have is attributed to God.

 

This is just platitudes. "Not full of pride," how? Are you 10% full of pride? Or are you half-full of pride? Or half-empty?

 

Everything you are is attributed to god...but what about those nasty bits (see "fallible," above)? The dreaded lustful thoughts, the times you're pissed off, the dark nights of the soul that pretty thoughts can't obscure quite enough? Or does God get credit for all the good parts, and Satan the rest? Where does your own volition and identity fit into this neat little package?

 

- i understand that i am not to judge or discriminate, for i am far from perfect or sinless myself. “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” John 8:7

 

Once again, vagaries and clichees. Judge or discriminate what, or whom?

 

- when i do fall into sin, which all of us will & unfortunately often do, i sincerely repent and ask God for his forgiveness.

 

How exactly does one "sincerely repent?" Resolve never to repeat whatever sinful act you committed? Say thirty Hail, Mary's? Punch oneself in the balls repeatedly while singing "Kum Ba Yah?"

 

- i now realize that our life on earth is all part of our test. the test to determine who will persevere under trial.

 

Who, what trial, what test, says who? Do you honestly expect anyone to take this seriously?

 

So what, God is testing humanity to see who can survive and who gets to writhe in agony for Eternity? Sounds suspiciously Darwinian to me...

 

who will get caught up in worldly views & worship the things of this earth, and who will devote their life on earth to God above?

 

Define "worldly views" and "things of this earth." If God made the earth, what's wrong with loving it? Didn't God make grass, trees, hops, ribeye steaks, multiple orgasms?

 

who will give up on God when "the going gets tough", or who will turn to Him for the strength to press on? who will trust in humans more than they trust in God?

 

I don't know. People who have most of their cereberal cortex intact, perhaps?

 

Funny thing is, God has a track record of making things "tough." He tortured Job, supposedly one of the greatest kiss-asses in the Bible, caused the death of thousands with varied and sundry cans of divine whup-ass in the unbelievable carnage that is the Old Testament, and either allows amazing suffering every minute of every day, or writes it into the script. So this is all what, an extortion racket where God "tests" our loyalty to him?

 

- i realize that every single day, every single thing in my life is a blessing, a gift from God. i believe that which God has made, God can also take away.

 

Can He take away bullshit-slinging, simplistic drivel? Please?

 

- when i experience troubles or hard times, or witness corruption & destruction in the world around me, i don't have the audacity to ask "why or how could God let this happen"?

 

Now I'm pissed...

 

AUDACITY? What, humans have no fucking right to ask, to scream, why is my mother dying? Why did 9/11 happen? Why do I have cancer? Why did my sister get raped? This is the Christian way, to smile a vacuous little smile and walk on like a zombie saying "it's all God's will?"

 

this is not to say that i am any better than anyone reading this. this is only to help define what i think the definition of a "real" Christian is. i went 25 years of my life trying to fill an empty void in my heart, trying to find some way to lift myself out of the depths of despair. 4 years ago i would have made fun of someone like myself..slinging out the "Jesus freak", or "Bible beater" insults. it wasn't until i opened my heart to God that the void disappeared. that didn't happen by any means of brainwashing or human intervention, as many would like to think. i simply couldn't deny God's presence in my life, once i sought Him & it became evident in EVERYTHING around me. the undeniable peace and happiness i began to feel is something that no earthly pleasures can bring. my prayers were being answered, left and right. everything began to fall into place & my eyes had been opened. everyday i continue to grow spiritually, and everyday God finds new ways to remind me of His many blessings, his unending love, grace and mercy. i hope and pray that you will make room for God in your heart again someday.

 

Congratulations, this is exactly the "testimonial" I've heard a hundred different times from a hundred different people. Yes, I found Jesus, and everything just started to go right, oh what a beautiful feeling. Except it isn't that simple.

 

This is exactly the kind formulaic, trite steaming pile of horseshit I came to this site to avoid...

 

[Checkmate]

Who is a "real" Christian? We've answered this before, but obviously it bears repeating.

Top Ten Signs That You Are A Christian

10. You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

 

9. You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created directly from dirt.

 

8. You laugh at polytheists, but have no problem believing in a Triune God.

 

7. Your face turns purple when you hear the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua", including women, children and trees!

 

6. You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and ascended into the sky.

 

5. You are willing to spend your life looking for loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing the Earth is a few generations old.

 

4. You believe the entire population of this planet with the exception of those that share your beliefs -- though excluding those in rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".

 

3. While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor and speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

 

2. You define 0.1% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence prayer works. And you think the remaining 99.9% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

 

1. You actually know a lot less than atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

 

Simply put, "real" Christians ™ are delusional fucking idiots who believe that THEIR fairy tales are "better" than the other guy's fairy tales. Hope this helps clear up any problems.

[Pariah]

Is anyone else sick of Christians constantly pointing out that C.S. Lewis was a former atheist?

[chefranden]

i'd like to think of myself as a real Christian & that is because i acknowledge, accept and try my best to apply the following:

 

Well this certainly is a surprize. Most Christians that come here admit they are not real Christians.

 

 

- i now realize that our life on earth is all part of our test. the test to determine who will persevere under trial. who will get caught up in worldly views & worship the things of this earth, and who will devote their life on earth to God above? who will give up on God when "the going gets tough", or who will turn to Him for the strength to press on? who will trust in humans more than they trust in God?

 

Why does God need this test? Why is he distrustful of his own handiwork? God blows life into a pile of dirt, "My this one may be defective better test it!" Sigh, you just can't get a decent creator these days.

 

- i realize that every single day, every single thing in my life is a blessing, a gift from God. i believe that which God has made, God can also take away.

 

Would you be saying this non-sense if you were a 10 year old sex-slave in Thialand? Why didn't God give you the sex slave test? Why didn't God give you the depleted urainium test?

 

- when i experience troubles or hard times, or witness corruption & destruction in the world around me, i don't have the audacity to ask "why or how could God let this happen"? i wholeheartedly believe that it is all part of God's plan. i don't curse His name, or turn my back on Him simply because things aren't going my way. i have faith enough to believe that God will deliver, and although i may not always understand His reasoning at the time, I have to trust that there is one & persevere under trial.

 

Well I have the audacity. I asked. No answer. No God.

 

 

this is not to say that i am any better than anyone reading this. this is only to help define what i think the definition of a "real" Christian is. i went 25 years of my life trying to fill an empty void in my heart, trying to find some way to lift myself out of the depths of despair. 4 years ago i would have made fun of someone like myself..slinging out the "Jesus freak", or "Bible beater" insults. it wasn't until i opened my heart to God that the void disappeared. that didn't happen by any means of brainwashing or human intervention, as many would like to think. i simply couldn't deny God's presence in my life, once i sought Him & it became evident in EVERYTHING around me. the undeniable peace and happiness i began to feel is something that no earthly pleasures can bring. my prayers were being answered, left and right. everything began to fall into place & my eyes had been opened. everyday i continue to grow spiritually, and everyday God finds new ways to remind me of His many blessings, his unending love, grace and mercy. i hope and pray that you will make room for God in your heart again someday.

 

Good for you!

[JeffXL]

Is anyone else sick of Christians constantly pointing out that C.S. Lewis was a former atheist?

 

Hi, Pariah!

 

More than I can describe!

 

He never *was* an atheist. Just another one of his morally and intellectually bankrupt lies.

He said he was angry at god. How is an atheist angry at something that doesn't exist? Lewis was mighty fond of false dilemmas, too. What a waste.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

He never *was* an atheist. Just another one of his morally and intellectually bankrupt lies.

He said he was angry at god. How is an atheist angry at something that doesn't exist? Lewis was mighty fond of false dilemmas, too. What a waste.

 

 

 

Even if he was a real atheist when he converted, so what? An

atheist converting to christianity proves that human beings can be

irrational. A christian turning to atheism (or anything else non-

christian) proves that the christian gawd is a lie. Proving that

human beings can be irrational does not affect my atheist world

view one damn bit. Demonstrating that the christian gawd is a lie

shatters their christian world view completely. That's why so many

of these fundies make hit and run posts in this forum; they can't

tolerate long-term exposure to the failure of their gawd.

[Taphophilia]

Is anyone else sick of Christians constantly pointing out that C.S. Lewis was a former atheist?

 

Hi, Pariah!

 

More than I can describe!

 

He never *was* an atheist. Just another one of his morally and intellectually bankrupt lies.

He said he was angry at god. How is an atheist angry at something that doesn't exist? Lewis was mighty fond of false dilemmas, too. What a waste.

 

He's the closest thing to an intellectual they have. Thinking is death to Christianity so it must be avoided at all costs.

[Japedo]

 

Simply put, "real" Christians ™ are delusional fucking idiots who believe that THEIR fairy tales are "better" than the other guy's fairy tales. Hope this helps clear up any problems.

 

 

You rock, what an awesome Post!!! I'm sure It will be ignored by the Christians unfortunately.

[♦ nivek ♦]

SS/DD

 

kL

[willybilly30]

why is everybody coming and telling us what a real christian is.

i dont really care and probally no one else does either.

[Skankboy]

- that i abide by the Lord's commandments, but don't twist those commandments to my advantage, or act like a hypocrite

 

Well it's nice to FINALLY meet a christian who actually abides by all of the Lord's commandments. So you no longer where clothes of mixed fabrics? No shellfish? And you remember the sabbath day (saturday) and keep it holy? You resist the urge to participate in pagan celebrations (yule, soltice, etc)?

 

[BlueGiant]

Talk is cheap. If you're real, show us.

[cyberdiva113]

Real Christianity™ is undefinable. Or rather, it is defined by the time in history and the denominational training of the believer.

 

Said another way, the definitions of a Real Christian™ are as varied as the many hundreds of competing branches of the religion, as witnessed by the in-fighting throughout the past 2000 years.

[Taphophilia]

Real Christianity™ is undefinable. Or rather, it is defined by the time in history and the denominational training of the believer.

 

Said another way, the definitions of a Real Christian™ are as varied as the many hundreds of competing branches of the religion, as witnessed by the in-fighting throughout the past 2000 years.

 

Cyber,

 

You are wise beyond your years! Are you sure you're not really 25?

 

Taph

[Open_Minded]

in response to this question originally posted under the "I Am A Christian Anti-fundamentalist" topic:

 

"But let me ask, mcmilliron, what is a "real" Christian?"

 

while i am not mcmilliron, i am going to answer this question to the best of my ability. while i realize i might as well be throwing myself to the wolves, i hope that you'll at least take the time to read and reflect.

 

i'd like to think of myself as a real Christian & that is because i acknowledge, accept and try my best to apply the following:

 

Hello No_Turning_Back:

 

Since you're so willing to answer questions other "true" christians have left unanswered and since you're willing to address the sticky issue of exactly what a "true" christian is I have a question for you. I've asked this question of other "true" christians (sub_zero thinking of you, buddy) but none of them can seem to answer. Maybe you'll do me the honor.

 

Following is a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

A genuine revolution of values means in the final analysis that our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. Every nation must now develop an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies.

 

This call for a worldwide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one’s tribe, race, class, and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all mankind.

This oft misunderstood this oft misinterpreted concept, so readily dismissed by the Nietzsches of the world as a weak and cowardly force, has now become an absolute necessity for the survival of man. When I speak of love I am not speaking of some sentimental and weak response. I’m not speaking of that force which is just emotional bosh.

I am speaking of that force which all the great religions have seen as the supreme unifying principle of life. Love is somehow the key that unlocks the door which leads to ultimate reality. This Hindu-Muslim-Christian-Jewish-Buddhist belief about ultimate reality

is beautifully summed up in the first epistle of Saint John: ----

Let us love one another (Yes), for love is God. (Yes) and every one that loveth is born of God and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love --- If we love one another, God dwelleth in us and his love is perfected in us. --- Let us hope that this spirit will become the order of the day.

 

We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. The oceans of history are made turbulent by the ever-rising tides of hate

.

History is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals that pursued this self-defeating path of hate. As Arnold Toynbee says: --- Love is the ultimate force that makes for the saving choice of life and good against the damning choice of death and evil. therefore the first hope in our inventory must be the hope that love is going to have the last word..

 

No_Turning_Back... Dr. King was an ordained minister of the Lutheran Church. If you know even a minimal amount of American history you will know his contribution to non-violent resistence and peaceful revolution. You will know that his actions were grounded in his Christian faith. What you may not know is that much of what he learned about non-violent resistence he learned from Ghandi (a Hindu). And as you can see from above - Dr. King was willing to acknowledge the legitimacy of the other world faith traditions.

 

So ... what say, you, No_Turning_Back? Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. a "true" Christian. Or is he frying in hell right now?

[JeffXL]

 

Even if he was a real atheist when he converted, so what?

 

 

Hi, Gnosis of Disbelief!

 

If he was an atheist when he converted, no big whup. Calling Christians on their lies, that is a must.

 

Hey, Taph! So true about Christian doctrine falling apart with thinking!

 

I'm reminded of the quote in Fielding's Tom Jones about True Christians:

 

"When I mention religion, I mean the Christian religion; and not only the Christian religion, but the Protestant religion; and not only the Protestant religion, but the Church of England."

 

(From http://www.litrix.com/tom-jone/tom-j018.htm)

[Thurisaz]

- ...that i abide by the Lord's commandments, but don't twist those commandments to my advantage, or act like a hypocrite

- that i love my neighbor...

 

So which is it? Do you obey or do you love your neighbor? Your statements are not compatible with each other you know... unless you set some restrictions on what you consider the commandments. For starters, you can't mean the ten commandments. Not the real ones that is, which you can find in Ex 34.

 

...i will end this with a quote from C.S. Lewis' (former atheist) "Mere Christianity":...

 

No apologist babble please. Thank you. It's always the same lies and bullshit in there, no matter what book you open, no matter who wrote it.

 

I have to admit, though, that at least from skimming your posting you sound kind of polite. I can't say you're okay before I've read it all in detail, but we do get much greater arseholes than you seem to be, that's for sure.

[Ouroboros]

while i am not mcmilliron, i am going to answer this question to the best of my ability. while i realize i might as well be throwing myself to the wolves, i hope that you'll at least take the time to read and reflect.

Welcome NTB.

 

Yeah, you've pretty much thrown yourself to the wolfes (or lions if that allegory fits you better).

 

When it comes to the reflecting part... been there, done that, still doing it, never gonna stop doing it, and that's exactly why I am in the state I am, of not believing in the Christian version of God anymore. Maybe you should try it too for a change?

 

Question for you: Which one(s) of the 37,000+ versions (denominations and cults) of Christians in the world today follows your guidelines?

 

Is anyone else sick of Christians constantly pointing out that C.S. Lewis was a former atheist?

Well, it's easily explained with that he was never a True Atheist™...

 

Great post! (Hint: there's a limit to 10 quotes in a post, that's why it looks they way it does. Use colored text instead. No limit to colors.)

 

 

An awesome list. I'm going to print it out...

 

 

 

He never *was* an atheist. Just another one of his morally and intellectually bankrupt lies.

Darn it! You beat me to it!

 

SS/DD

Or SS/DC (same shit/different christian)

[Guest no_turning_back]

I'm completely open to your ridicule & it isn't going to phase me a bit, to be honest. I already knew coming into this that I was going to get a backlash, and that is quite alright with me. I suspected that your retort would be exactly what it was. Rightfully so. This is your site, with your beliefs. I'd shared your mindset in the past & would have been just as defensive, at the time, as you are being now. You're not telling me anything that I hadn't already once thought myself, so this entire scenario was rather predictable.

 

I know that some of you are probably thinking that I'm arrogant enough to assume that I can change you & that is why I posted. You're wrong, I know better than that. I realized a long time ago that I cannot change the world, but I can pray for all the lost souls & hope that God will intervene. Truth is, a friend pointed me to this site, and I happened to answer a question that was asked in one of the posts. Simple as that, don't read too much into it.

 

This will be the last that you'll hear from me. I'm not going to be hanging out at this site or meddling in your business anymore. Don't pat yourself on the back just yet, however. My decision not to return to this site is hardly because I am being scared away by you, or because you're responses were just too witty for me to defend. Rather, because I'm smart enough to know that it will be a neverending debate & one that I don't care to waste my time with anymore. So why'd I post to begin with? What can I say? Boredom gets the best of me sometimes.

 

If you have things that you'd like to point out to one another, then by all means, continue on with this post. However, I honestly will not be returning to read anything else, so there's not much of a point in replying to me. I'm certainly not expecting anyone to lose sleep over that one, I'm just being honest & saving you the time it would take to type a reply. A sweetheart, am I not?

[Asimov]

A neverending debate?

 

The only neverending debates are over biblical theology.

 

The rest is easy, and unless you're dumb like sub_zer0 and can't grasp simple logic a debate would be over pretty quickly.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

This will be the last that you'll hear from me. I'm not going to be hanging out at this site or meddling in your business anymore. Don't pat yourself on the back just yet, however. My decision not to return to this site is hardly because I am being scared away by you, or because you're responses were just too witty for me to defend. Rather, because I'm smart enough to know that it will be a neverending debate & one that I don't care to waste my time with anymore. So why'd I post to begin with? What can I say? Boredom gets the best of me sometimes.

 

 

 

::yawn::

 

[necrosmith]

Real Christians are anyone who happen to agree with a particular believer's brand of dogma.

 

There you go.

 

This will be the last that you'll hear from me. I'm not going to be hanging out at this site or meddling in your business anymore. Don't pat yourself on the back just yet, however. My decision not to return to this site is hardly because I am being scared away by you, or because you're responses were just too witty for me to defend. Rather, because I'm smart enough to know that it will be a neverending debate & one that I don't care to waste my time with anymore. So why'd I post to begin with? What can I say? Boredom gets the best of me sometimes.

 

So much for the great commission. Guess he wasn't a "true christian".

[Christopher Carrion]

in response to this question originally posted under the "I Am A Christian Anti-fundamentalist" topic:

 

"But let me ask, mcmilliron, what is a "real" Christian?"

 

while i am not mcmilliron, i am going to answer this question to the best of my ability. while i realize i might as well be throwing myself to the wolves, i hope that you'll at least take the time to read and reflect.

 

i'd like to think of myself as a real Christian & that is because i acknowledge, accept and try my best to apply the following:

 

- the knowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, my Saviour, both divine and human. He died for my sins, that i might be forgiven & have the gift of eternal life in Heaven.

 

- that i abide by the Lord's commandments, but don't twist those commandments to my advantage, or act like a hypocrite

 

- that i love my neighbor, and do not present myself as "Holier than thou" or put myself on any kind of pedestal. i am not full of pride, rather humble & acknowledge the fact that everything i am and everything i have is attributed to God.

 

- i understand that i am not to judge or discriminate, for i am far from perfect or sinless myself. “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” John 8:7

 

- when i do fall into sin, which all of us will & unfortunately often do, i sincerely repent and ask God for his forgiveness.

 

- i now realize that our life on earth is all part of our test. the test to determine who will persevere under trial. who will get caught up in worldly views & worship the things of this earth, and who will devote their life on earth to God above? who will give up on God when "the going gets tough", or who will turn to Him for the strength to press on? who will trust in humans more than they trust in God?

 

- i realize that every single day, every single thing in my life is a blessing, a gift from God. i believe that which God has made, God can also take away.

 

- when i experience troubles or hard times, or witness corruption & destruction in the world around me, i don't have the audacity to ask "why or how could God let this happen"? i wholeheartedly believe that it is all part of God's plan. i don't curse His name, or turn my back on Him simply because things aren't going my way. i have faith enough to believe that God will deliver, and although i may not always understand His reasoning at the time, I have to trust that there is one & persevere under trial.

 

this is not to say that i am any better than anyone reading this. this is only to help define what i think the definition of a "real" Christian is. i went 25 years of my life trying to fill an empty void in my heart, trying to find some way to lift myself out of the depths of despair. 4 years ago i would have made fun of someone like myself..slinging out the "Jesus freak", or "Bible beater" insults. it wasn't until i opened my heart to God that the void disappeared. that didn't happen by any means of brainwashing or human intervention, as many would like to think. i simply couldn't deny God's presence in my life, once i sought Him & it became evident in EVERYTHING around me. the undeniable peace and happiness i began to feel is something that no earthly pleasures can bring. my prayers were being answered, left and right. everything began to fall into place & my eyes had been opened. everyday i continue to grow spiritually, and everyday God finds new ways to remind me of His many blessings, his unending love, grace and mercy. i hope and pray that you will make room for God in your heart again someday.

 

i will end this with a quote from C.S. Lewis' (former atheist) "Mere Christianity":

 

"Now that I am a Christian I do have moods in which the whole thing looks very improbable: but when I was an atheist I had moods in which Christianity looked terribly probable. This rebellion of your moods against your real self is going to come anyway. That is why Faith is such a necessary virtue: unless you teach your moods "where they get off", you can never be either a sound Christian or even a sound atheist, but just a creature dithering to and fro, with its beliefs really dependent on the weather and the state of its digestion."

 

 

Patronising beyond belief. We are all, bar none, painfully aware of how you "True Christians" define yourselves. Your language alone is evidence enough of the arrgance you proclaim to have avoided. You talk of "acceptance" of "God" and the bible as his fundamental law, conveying the assumption that Christian mythos and biblical proclamation is somehow irrevocably and self-evidently correct, and that we here -not to mention the millions upon millions of non-adherents to the faith existing today and from throughout history- are somehow determined in our denial of what we really believe and know to be true.

 

I am tired of being polite.

 

GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL. I have never been Christian. Having read the Bible from a very early age a number of times and in a variety of different modes (historical, ideological, philosophical, psychological), it is evident to me that there is more historical and physical fact to be found in The Lord of the Rings. You worship an ancient Mesopotamian warrior-deity, who happened to be the focal point of worship for a break away cult from the core mythology which eventually spawned Genesis, and inspired all that came after. Furthermore, having read the bible, analysed its psychological and behavioural implications down to the essential core, I find its intrinsic ideologies abhorrent in the extreme, indicative of the kind of self-indulgent determined ignorance of fact, evidence and reason that has resulted in nearly every significant war and atrocity since the most inhuman of holy books (with the possible exception of the Quoran) spread its carcinogenic cult across the face of our earth.

 

What is the ultimate agenda of the ideology you adhere to? What does it, and those that adhere to it, want at the end of all things? They want everyone on the planet to think, feel and percieve exactly as they do. They want their own selfish preconceptions of the "ideal human" to take root, and strangle all freedom of thought and investigation, all variety of perspective, expression and culture until there is nothing left to threaten the world-view by which they define themselves.

 

Your selfishness, and the selfishness of all "faithful", may one day reduce all humanity to cinders and memory.