Is a delusional purpose better than no purpose?

[florduh]

9 hours ago, LostinParis said:

 

Does the fact that Christianity provides people with purpose and comfort out-weigh the need for Christianity to be true? For me the answer was no.

Bringing children into this world, helping to ease the suffering of others...  By focusing on the needs of others my life now has REAL purpose and meaning.

Building your life around and relying on a falsehood makes no sense. People are also provided with "purpose and comfort" by NAMBLA and the KKK.

[AcrobaticDetective]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:09 AM, Christopherhays said:

I’ve struggled with depression for years and all my friends and family’s support has felt hollow since I left their religion. I know I was able to cope with this better before I lost my faith... my question is: Do Christians feel more meaning/purpose/fulfillment in life? If they do, should we encourage religion even if we know it’s delusional? 

 

I personally have trouble setting goals and motivating myself to achieve them. Nothing seems as meaningful anymore and that sorta sucks... 

 

I struggle with depression as well. And this journey into atheism is very new to me. I have had been thinking a lot about purpose. Specifically, I have been thinking "without an afterlife, what purpose do I have?" I would be lying if I said it hasn't affected my motivation in a negative way. But it got a little better today.

 

What has given me comfort is thinking about being a very young child. I didn't have any real concept of God, death, or an afterlife. I just enjoyed life for what it was. I enjoyed playing in the dirt, laying in the grass, climbing trees, playing games with my friends, buying candy with the change I found, and so on. It's freeing to me. To allow myself to live in the now.

 

I also see much to find meaning in still. Family, taking care of the earth, helping eliminate poverty, protesting against war, etc.

 

I hope that is helpful.

[Joshpantera]

What about the purpose of living life to the fullest, having as much fun as possible while you're alive, and being the best person you can be, just because? 

[midniterider]

One difference between a Christian and someone who has never been one, is the never-been-one doesn't really think about purpose. At least I didnt...nor do I now (as an Ex-c). I was brought up as agnostic and to just enjoy the present moment. That's all we really have. You can certainly make goals for yourself if you are a goal-oriented person...

 

If you deny this life's enjoyment in favor of some vague afterlife, then I think you're missing the point of being alive (personal opinion of course). 

 

...

 

Does being atheist mean you can't have an afterlife? Maybe there is a godless afterlife.  I wouldn't stress too much about it, though.

[Aqualung]

Edited

[TABA]

On 12/7/2019 at 9:55 AM, trashy said:

I'm not talking about cosmic level purpose. There is none. There is no designer or creator, therefore our existence is pure chance, and when we die we slowly return to the stardust we came from. I'm fully comfortable with that. But a *sense* of purpose is basically the emotional feeling that others want or need you or your services, your time. To feel needed/wanted. Church often provides this for a lot of people. Lately I am feeling a strong need to find a non-religious substitute. Purpose and Legacy. These are the things one dwells on in their later years. 

Hi @trashy

 

I see you stopped by today with some musical thoughts.  I barely remembered you from your time here before - mostly before my arrival - so I looked you up and found this as one of your recent posts.  This idea of finding purpose outside of theistic religion is something I’ve thought about a lot.  Some people leaving Christianity don’t need anything in particular to take it’s place, but we have to admit that the religion provides benefits - both real and imagined - that are hard to find elsewhere.
 

I’m more than satisfied that meaning and purpose don’t require a god belief, but I do think those of us who encourage deconversion have to do more to help guide some folks to new sources of such.

 

Anyway, I’m glad you stopped by and I’d be interested on your thoughts on this matter, three years further along in your journey. 

[pantheory]

On 8/26/2019 at 9:09 PM, Christopherhays said:

I’ve struggled with depression for years and all my friends and family’s support has felt hollow since I left their religion. I know I was able to cope with this better before I lost my faith... my question is: Do Christians feel more meaning/purpose/fulfillment in life? If they do, should we encourage religion even if we know it’s delusional? 

 

I personally have trouble setting goals and motivating myself to achieve them. Nothing seems as meaningful anymore and that sorta sucks... 

 

Yes, religion is a delusion. But it is a comfort for many believing in an afterlife for themselves and for their family.  All would not necessarily benefit from knowing the truth. Some people are always looking for the truth of reality. There are the kind of people that realize how ridiculous the stories of Genesis in the old testament are. In the New Testament they can see how stupid the book of Revelation is. Not everyone can recognize stupidity and many are happy with Santa Clause and Easter bunny-like stories like in the Bible. 

[trashy]

4 hours ago, TABA said:

Hi @trashy

 

I see you stopped by today with some musical thoughts.  I barely remembered you from your time here before - mostly before my arrival - so I looked you up and found this as one of your recent posts.  This idea of finding purpose outside of theistic religion is something I’ve thought about a lot.  Some people leaving Christianity don’t need anything in particular to take it’s place, but we have to admit that the religion provides benefits - both real and imagined - that are hard to find elsewhere.
 

I’m more than satisfied that meaning and purpose don’t require a god belief, but I do think those of us who encourage deconversion have to do more to help guide some folks to new sources of such.

 

Anyway, I’m glad you stopped by and I’d be interested on your thoughts on this matter, three years further along in your journey. 

Well, as the great Bono once put it, "I still haven't found what I'm looking for..."

 

For me, being deep into christianity for 40 years meant that I was definitely viewing it as part of my purpose in life. I wouldn't describe myself as any sort of 'seeker' who is yearning for a replacement spirituality. But I do miss having a sense of purpose, especially since I retired. Volunteering helps, but I think maybe my work on family genealogy might be the closest thing I have at this point. There are stories to be told. 

I guess I stopped hanging around here that much because once you've settled into a new belief, you no longer feel a need to continually discuss it. It is what it is. I'll leave the theological debates to others, but for me the bottom line is that I no longer believe in any possibility of anything one might call 'super'-natural, therefore deities can't exist. Show me that it is, in fact, possible and we might have the basis for a discussion, but until then I can't be bothered really...

[◊ Weezer ◊]

6 hours ago, trashy said:

 

Well, as the great Bono once put it, "I still haven't found what I'm looking for..."

 

I missed the 2019 discussion, so I'll put in my 2 cents worth here. 

 

Even though I was raised in a religious home and graduated from a christian college, somehow I was never really attracted to heaven in an afterlife. HA!  Some of my family I don't want to be with for eternity!  In the beginning I became christian to avoid hell.  Then along the way, probably due to some family circumstances, was drawn more to a "social" gospel than to one that woud get me and others to heaven.  I decided to try and prevent little "hells" on earth by getting into psychology, sociology and social work.  I left religion at 50 year of age (30 years ago) and like you, there was a slight emptyness, especially after retirement, and I still miss the sense of community that went with church.  But I also have always been fascinated by nature, and was born a curious individual which led to me to wanting to see over the next hill, and see what was around the next corner, which led to much travel and stopping at every museum and point of interest along the way. 

 

As for purpose, my interest in nature led me to look at nature for purpose.  What is the purpose in nature, which we are a part of?  What does every living thing strive to do?  It strives to LIVE, and pass life on to the next generation!  And under optimal conditions, there is life to it's fullest, and things that lead to better life for all.  And if you want to hold onto a bit of religion, consider what the Jesus character (fiction, or not) was getting at with the words to love neighbor as self.  "He" knew that was the secret for a better life for everyone.  So I made that my purpose in life, and not just to promote quality life for all humans, but for our planet in general.  In my view, it takes both "self" interest and "other" interest to feel worthwhile----to feel like I have fulfilled my purpose.  

 

Maybe there is some kind of afterlife.  There is more we don't know about consciousness, than what we do know.  There is no way we can know for sure, but if there is afterlife, I don't think it is as described in the bible.  And I have faith that we will all be there.   And if we go, I hope we can choose our room-mates!

 

HA!  Your sermon for the day.  Hope it helps.

 

[trashy]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:01 AM, Weezer said:

I missed the 2019 discussion, so I'll put in my 2 cents worth here. 

 

Even though I was raised in a religious home and graduated from a christian college, somehow I was never really attracted to heaven in an afterlife. HA!  Some of my family I don't want to be with for eternity!  In the beginning I became christian to avoid hell.  Then along the way, probably due to some family circumstances, was drawn more to a "social" gospel than to one that woud get me and others to heaven.  I decided to try and prevent little "hells" on earth by getting into psychology, sociology and social work.  I left religion at 50 year of age (30 years ago) and like you, there was a slight emptyness, especially after retirement, and I still miss the sense of community that went with church.  But I also have always been fascinated by nature, and was born a curious individual which led to me to wanting to see over the next hill, and see what was around the next corner, which led to much travel and stopping at every museum and point of interest along the way. 

Slightly different timeframes, but a similar path. I left christianity/religion at 40, 20 years ago. We have been traveling a lot since then as well.

On 12/23/2022 at 12:01 AM, Weezer said:

As for purpose, my interest in nature led me to look at nature for purpose.  What is the purpose in nature, which we are a part of?  What does every living thing strive to do?  It strives to LIVE, and pass life on to the next generation!  And under optimal conditions, there is life to it's fullest, and things that lead to better life for all.  And if you want to hold onto a bit of religion, consider what the Jesus character (fiction, or not) was getting at with the words to love neighbor as self.  "He" knew that was the secret for a better life for everyone.  So I made that my purpose in life, and not just to promote quality life for all humans, but for our planet in general.  In my view, it takes both "self" interest and "other" interest to feel worthwhile----to feel like I have fulfilled my purpose.  

I like your nature analogy. A good basis for a life philosophy!

 

As the 'golden rule' has been expressed by many ancient philosophers in one way or another I generally avoid basing any life philosophy on an Abrahamic religious writing. But it is a good principle.

On 12/23/2022 at 12:01 AM, Weezer said:

Maybe there is some kind of afterlife.  There is more we don't know about consciousness, than what we do know.  There is no way we can know for sure, but if there is afterlife, I don't think it is as described in the bible.  And I have faith that we will all be there.   And if we go, I hope we can choose our room-mates!

 

HA!  Your sermon for the day.  Hope it helps.

 

I'm quite the materialist when it comes to consciousness and therefore try to avoid spending time on afterlife speculation.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

5 hours ago, trashy said:

 

As the 'golden rule' has been expressed by many ancient philosophers in one way or another I generally avoid basing any life philosophy on an Abrahamic religious writing. But it is a good principle.

 

Yes it is a good principle, and is evidence based idealogy.  

[TruthFollower]

On 8/27/2019 at 5:09 AM, Christopherhays said:

I’ve struggled with depression for years and all my friends and family’s support has felt hollow since I left their religion. I know I was able to cope with this better before I lost my faith... my question is: Do Christians feel more meaning/purpose/fulfillment in life? If they do, should we encourage religion even if we know it’s delusional? 

 

I personally have trouble setting goals and motivating myself to achieve them. Nothing seems as meaningful anymore and that sorta sucks... 

I felt drawn to your post because I've also had trouble setting goals and with motivation.

 

I chatted with a psychologist who, I thought, rather helpfully broke things down a bit with goal setting.   They said before you set goals it can be helpful to think of what values are important to you.   For example, authenticity, orderliness or creativity. 

 

 Then after choosing a value or character trait that you'd like to work on, you can try setting a goal that's in line with that value.   First you can think of something that you can do today, perhaps do that again,  then a medium term goal (week or month), then a long term goal if it seems appropriate.

 

I think further details of this are online but I'm sorry I've forgotten the link.   But it might be helpful to search for a list positive character traits or values because there were more than fifty or sixty on a list I was shown.