Research Rant

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

I hate religion... I mean, I've always hated it (even as a Christian... but Christianity is a relationship, remember?) but now I'm getting to the point where I absolutely loathe it. I've been talking to people for a while now, and no one can answers my questions about Christianity. I'm on three different forums and still no one has been able to answer my questions. Does anyone else see something wrong with these people who have spent their whole lives in Christianity, and yet can't answer the questions of a 16-year old guy who has only been an Atheist for about a month?

 

 

I'm really sick of researching religion and talking in all of these forums. It's not helping me anyway, it's getting me nowhere. I'm ready to let go and just live my life. Sure, I still have my questions. But we will always have questions. We can't expect to know everything. But at this point I know enough to disbelieve in Christianity. Yeah, occasionally I still worry that maybe I'm wrong. But it's probably just the programming... it's hell that worries me. But then again, if I allow the Christian concept of hell to bother me, I might as well be bothered by bad karma and all the other "hells" out there.

 

So what now? I guess I just leave my research and the forums and live my life. That seems as though I'd be giving up though. I'm not sure why it seems like that. Programming again? I'm not sure. But I don't want to sit here forever hoping I won't have to go to hell and arguing with people about bears mauling a bunch of kids for making fun of a bald prophet.

 

Sorry... I had to rant. This has been very irritating to me.

 

-Dra Mucd Uha

[dr_funkenstein]

I think it will help if you adopt an attitude that says - I will only believe in knowable, verifiable truth. Truth shown me by my experience and by logical deduction.

 

By living like that you're essentially saying "I reject the supernatural". If you accept that the natural world around us is all that there is, and that your life is biologically based and finite - then I think you'll finally be able to reject absurd notions like hell.

 

While it might be hard to give up on the whole concept of your soul living on for eternity after you die, I think it's a very mature attitude to simply accept that you are an animal that lives on this planet, and that your life is finite and therefore infinitely precious and worth living every moment of! For me that's the source of my happiness, the source of what makes me get out of bed every morning. This life that I'm living is so fleeting, I have no heaven or hell to look forward to so I damn well better make sure I live this life while I can!

 

All the best, mate.

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

I think it will help if you adopt an attitude that says - I will only believe in knowable, verifiable truth. Truth shown me by my experience and by logical deduction.

 

By living like that you're essentially saying "I reject the supernatural". If you accept that the natural world around us is all that there is, and that your life is biologically based and finite - then I think you'll finally be able to reject absurd notions like hell.

 

While it might be hard to give up on the whole concept of your soul living on for eternity after you die, I think it's a very mature attitude to simply accept that you are an animal that lives on this planet, and that your life is finite and therefore infinitely precious and worth living every moment of! For me that's the source of my happiness, the source of what makes me get out of bed every morning. This life that I'm living is so fleeting, I have no heaven or hell to look forward to so I damn well better make sure I live this life while I can!

 

All the best, mate.

Yes. My way of thinking right now is... kind of mixed up. Leaving Christianity is hard, and it has confused me. I have to rethink my morals, my priorities, my way of life, everything. But I'd rather do this now than have to do it several years down the road when I may have had a Christian wife and kids. My whole outlook on life has taken a 180. I now see life as something to be enjoyed, something that shouldn't be taken for granted, something we should make the most of. I actually enjoy life now. I'm not depressed all the time like I used to be. I'm not always freaking out because I think I am a sinner that should rot in hell but is eternally thankful to some guy in the sky.

 

Like you said, I need to change my attitude. I think getting away from all the research and whatnot would help greatly. Thanks for the advice.

 

 

-Dra Mucd Uha

[♦ nivek ♦]

Wheeeeeeeeelllllll, sinceya brought it up..

 

You've finally found that all religious belief is bullshit, the study of it earns you a massive zilch, gives you headaches, and makes the gut twist... So why continue something that bugs your system so?

 

Buds I once was so deep in to counter-apologetics just to *win arguments* that I had forgotton that the imaginary shit couldn't hurt me.

 

Take a break, figure out what you DO like to do and go do some of that.

 

Whack off, fly an airplane, parachute, tiddlywinks, swim with hungry mako sharks, whatever within your definintions of *legal* can be persued without hurting others.

 

If *religion* keeps screwing with you, feel the Freedom of shitcanning the whole thing and life your life according to your dictates best you can..

 

kL

[chefranden]

Dra_Mucd_Uha,

 

Advice from 56 year old fart.

 

First. Read The Book: on The Taboo of Knowing Who You Are.

 

Second. Read My Ishmael.

 

Third. Understand that you have been told all your life that adults know what they are doing. They don't. You are now noticing this. It is disconcerting. It will make you mad. Once you assimulate this, you will be an adult.

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

nivek,

Sounds good. You're right, and that's where I am now: I keep going only so I can keep winning arguements. But it's pointless. It's harmful, it takes away from life. I am ready to feel more freedom. Why let the freedom of being not only free from religion, but also a free American, go to waste on researching religion? Heh, forget that, I have a life to live.

 

chefranden,

Thanks for the book references. Question though: Should I read the first book before My Ishmael? Amazon says My Ishmael is a sequel. I'll look for them next time I'm in town.

[fallenleaf]

I'm ready to let go and just live my life.

 

"There is no governor anywhere. You are absolutely free."

 

 

Okay, okay... it's a reference you're not going to get. Hell... most people won't either. But you're free, you've found The Answer. It's one I personally forget sometimes when I get sucked back into debating or researching religion -- which has it's place but only if you're into those kinds of things.

 

The Answer is to go and just live your life. Everything will sort itself out -- or it won't but you won't be sitting around to care about it. The best thing I did... after months and months of research which ended in my own deconversion... was just float. I stopped searching... I stopped hunting... I stopped everything. I didn't know what I believed. I didn't care what I believed! I just caught the breeze and started floating.

 

Go... leave us to our bitter bullshit. You'll have doubts at first but they'll quiet eventually and if they don't you will find the answers for the ones which stick around. But don't cling to them... just let everything go.

 

---

 

How is that for ruining my promise to not try and encourage one decision or the other.

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

Regarding adults, I actually learned this from my parents' divorce. I guess it's that which made me able to question Christianity. My parents' divorce has opened my mind greatly. I hope you don't take this as boasting, sometimes I wish it never happened. My parents' divorce has almost been as much of a plague to me as Christianity. That's ok though, it's the life I was born with and I'm ready to make the most of it.

 

I'm ready to let go and just live my life.

 

"There is no governor anywhere. You are absolutely free."

 

 

Okay, okay... it's a reference you're not going to get. Hell... most people won't either. But you're free, you've found The Answer. It's one I personally forget sometimes when I get sucked back into debating or researching religion -- which has it's place but only if you're into those kinds of things.

 

The Answer is to go and just live your life. Everything will sort itself out -- or it won't but you won't be sitting around to care about it. The best thing I did... after months and months of research which ended in my own deconversion... was just float. I stopped searching... I stopped hunting... I stopped everything. I didn't know what I believed. I didn't care what I believed! I just caught the breeze and started floating.

 

Go... leave us to our bitter bullshit. You'll have doubts at first but they'll quiet eventually and if they don't you will find the answers for the ones which stick around. But don't cling to them... just let everything go.

 

---

 

How is that for ruining my promise to not try and encourage one decision or the other.

I'm loving this idea the more I think about it Just let go... I will do just that. I've been meaning to for a while... but I keep getting sucked back into research and debates. I'll try to really let go this time.

[chefranden]

nivek,

Sounds good. You're right, and that's where I am now: I keep going only so I can keep winning arguements. But it's pointless. It's harmful, it takes away from life. I am ready to feel more freedom. Why let the freedom of being not only free from religion, but also a free American, go to waste on researching religion? Heh, forget that, I have a life to live.

 

chefranden,

Thanks for the book references. Question though: Should I read the first book before My Ishmael? Amazon says My Ishmael is a sequel. I'll look for them next time I'm in town.

 

You can read them in order if you want. I think that you will relate to My Ishmael more, because the student Ishmael teaches is about your age, and because it talks about the school system.

[Checkmate]

Humph. Looks like someone needs a prescription from Doctor Grinch. Check out my blog Walk Away. It's completely about what ails you, Dra Mucd Uha.

[bob]

...My way of thinking right now is... kind of mixed up. Leaving Christianity is hard, and it has confused me.

Welcome to reality my friend. It is this very attitude of "not knowing, but wanting to know" that has fueled the sciences from the very beginning. Please don't think that you "need" to know. Instead, enjoy your thirst for truth. Continue to "want" to know. That desire its self can be more satisfying than knowledge. I think one of the worst things about Christianity is the attitude that they have the truth, so there is no need for further investigation.

I have to rethink my morals, my priorities, my way of life, everything.

Not quite. You will probably not have any urge to rape and pillage. Matter of fact, there is something about the idea that...this is it, so I had better make the best of it.

But I'd rather do this now than have to do it several years down the road when I may have had a Christian wife and kids.

Like me? I was a Christian for 25 years. Wife, three kids. You have quite a head start on most of us.

My whole outlook on life has taken a 180. I now see life as something to be enjoyed, something that shouldn't be taken for granted, something we should make the most of. I actually enjoy life now. I'm not depressed all the time like I used to be. I'm not always freaking out because I think I am a sinner that should rot in hell but is eternally thankful to some guy in the sky.

...he said as all the free thinkers applauded.

Like you said, I need to change my attitude. I think getting away from all the research and whatnot would help greatly. Thanks for the advice.

You have a life time...how ever long that is...

[Guest Challenger]

(Dra_Mucd_Uha)

arguing with people about bears mauling a bunch of kids for making fun of a bald prophet.

 

Right now it's my turn in the barrel for that one

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

Humph. Looks like someone needs a prescription from Doctor Grinch. Check out my blog Walk Away. It's completely about what ails you, Dra Mucd Uha.

Wow, that's awesome. I'll be reading it. Thanks.

 

Welcome to reality my friend. It is this very attitude of "not knowing, but wanting to know" that has fueled the sciences from the very beginning. Please don't think that you "need" to know. Instead, enjoy your thirst for truth. Continue to "want" to know. That desire its self can be more satisfying than knowledge. I think one of the worst things about Christianity is the attitude that they have the truth, so there is no need for further investigation.

True, never thought of it like that. I suppose I just have to get used to the fact that I don't have to know everything, unlike I thought I did being a Christian. It's not too bad...

 

Not quite. You will probably not have any urge to rape and pillage. Matter of fact, there is something about the idea that...this is it, so I had better make the best of it.

Yeah... make the best of it... and I will!

 

...he said as all the free thinkers applauded.

 

Right now it's my turn in the barrel for that one

Lol... yeah, I'm watching it. I look forward to seeing the same old replies... And remember, God loves you...

[Kuroikaze]

Yes. My way of thinking right now is... kind of mixed up. Leaving Christianity is hard, and it has confused me. I have to rethink my morals, my priorities, my way of life, everything. But I'd rather do this now than have to do it several years down the road when I may have had a Christian wife and kids. My whole outlook on life has taken a 180. I now see life as something to be enjoyed, something that shouldn't be taken for granted, something we should make the most of. I actually enjoy life now. I'm not depressed all the time like I used to be. I'm not always freaking out because I think I am a sinner that should rot in hell but is eternally thankful to some guy in the sky.

 

Like you said, I need to change my attitude. I think getting away from all the research and whatnot would help greatly. Thanks for the advice.

 

 

-Dra Mucd Uha

 

I completly understand where you are comming from man. comming out of this mindset where everything you do is about God, the chruch, some bible study, worship...so on and so forth. I remember the day I finally said, thats it I'm can't believe this stuff anymore. I was like, "ok now what," and I had no idea. I realized I had no personality, no desires, no anything.

 

On top of that all the emotional problems I thought I had laid to rest when I became a christian started resurfacing. In manyways it was like my life had stopped when I entered the christian belief system, and when I walked back out, I had to start over were I left off.

 

Find some hobbies, Mine was anime and writting, but its not important what, so much as its important that you find something you enjoy, and before you know it you'll develop some friends with those interists, and find a whole new you.

 

By the by, my sister recently deconverted and she's about your age, she'd be on this site more, but our parents are fundy and watch her computer usage sometimes. She's comming through fine so I'm sure you'll do alright.

[Guest Challenger]

(Challenger)

Right now it's my turn in the barrel for that one

 

Lol... yeah, I'm watching it. I look forward to seeing the same old replies... And remember, God loves you...

 

I've been asked to open a new thread, because I'm not "struggling or seeking". Unsure, I'll cop to that--who the hell isn't? But I'm not frantic or paranoid about it, and I don't think they know how to cope with me because of that.

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

I completly understand where you are comming from man. comming out of this mindset where everything you do is about God, the chruch, some bible study, worship...so on and so forth. I remember the day I finally said, thats it I'm can't believe this stuff anymore. I was like, "ok now what," and I had no idea. I realized I had no personality, no desires, no anything.

 

On top of that all the emotional problems I thought I had laid to rest when I became a christian started resurfacing. In manyways it was like my life had stopped when I entered the christian belief system, and when I walked back out, I had to start over were I left off.

 

Find some hobbies, Mine was anime and writting, but its not important what, so much as its important that you find something you enjoy, and before you know it you'll develop some friends with those interists, and find a whole new you.

 

By the by, my sister recently deconverted and she's about your age, she'd be on this site more, but our parents are fundy and watch her computer usage sometimes. She's comming through fine so I'm sure you'll do alright.

Yeah... I love writing too. I've been writing some more lately. I also like to jog sometimes. Been doing that. And RPG's. I've always enjoyed RPGs. Addictive.

 

I'm still finding myself. I'm also having to beat off all of those other Christians who have been active in my life. For example, I have a friend from school who's Christian, and he has been trying absolutely non-stop to get me back, whether it be through e-mail, in person, on the phone, everything. He's the kind of Christian that doesn't really know why he believes, but hell, God loves him, so why does it matter? He informs me often that God loves me too. Lol... I feel so loved...

I'm still waiting on him to provide a valid arguement for Christianity, but considering he has never argued for Christianity in his life, I don't think I'm going to get such a reply. I gave him my reasons for not believing. I'm waiting for his reply.

 

I do have support at school to though. I found someone who is Agnostic, and we've been talking some. Also, one of my Christian friends de-converted also. So I'm not alone, not completely

 

I've been asked to open a new thread, because I'm not "struggling or seeking". Unsure, I'll cop to that--who the hell isn't? But I'm not frantic or paranoid about it, and I don't think they know how to cope with me because of that.

Lol... I wonder how long it will take before they lock the thread...

[spamandham]

I'm really sick of researching religion and talking in all of these forums. It's not helping me anyway, it's getting me nowhere. I'm ready to let go and just live my life. Sure, I still have my questions. But we will always have questions.

 

It seems to me your course of action is clear. It's been nice having you around here briefly!

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

I'm really sick of researching religion and talking in all of these forums. It's not helping me anyway, it's getting me nowhere. I'm ready to let go and just live my life. Sure, I still have my questions. But we will always have questions.

 

It seems to me your course of action is clear. It's been nice having you around here briefly!

I didn't mean it like that... sorry, I guess I could have worded it better.

 

I'm actually in three other forums, and I'm asking questions in each one. My comment referred to those three, not this one. In those forums all they are telling me is how much God loves me and wants me to go back to him, they aren't answering any of my questions. I was saying that I'm tired of those forums (although I did say "these" so I do take blame on that one).

 

I like this forum. There's a lot of supportive people here, you have helped me a lot. I don't plan on leaving anytime soon.

[Amethyst]

Most Christians, I've found, aren't very good when it comes to answering questions when it comes to religion. For that, you need books and a good online encylopedia.

 

Find some hobbies, Mine was anime and writting, but its not important what, so much as its important that you find something you enjoy, and before you know it you'll develop some friends with those interists, and find a whole new you.

 

I second the writing. Start a journal. Use a traditional journal if you don't want other people to read it. It's great therapy and a good way to find out who you really are.

 

I like RPGs myself. I recently joined a gaming group that meets twice a month. They use GURPs. The game is in a SF setting. It's so refreshing to meet new people who aren't Christian and don't expect me to share their beliefs. The GM is an ex-Catholic, actually, so he knows where I'm coming from.

[spamandham]

I like this forum. There's a lot of supportive people here, you have helped me a lot. I don't plan on leaving anytime soon.

 

My mistake.

[Godless Wonder]

But we will always have questions. We can't expect to know everything.

Right. One way I've heard this expressed (I forget where.):

 

You may not know, or have any way to know what it is that I have in my pocket. But you know it's not a live elephant.

 

Christianity asks you to believe they've got an elephant in their pocket.

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

I second the writing. Start a journal. Use a traditional journal if you don't want other people to read it. It's great therapy and a good way to find out who you really are.

 

I like RPGs myself. I recently joined a gaming group that meets twice a month. They use GURPs. The game is in a SF setting. It's so refreshing to meet new people who aren't Christian and don't expect me to share their beliefs. The GM is an ex-Catholic, actually, so he knows where I'm coming from.

Writing is one of my favorite hobbies. Have you ever hard of the Final Fantasy games? If you have, you may remember in Final Fantasy X the Al Bhed people. Lol, I learned how to write in Al Bhed. So did one of my friends. It's how we pass notes in class without worrying about other people reading it. Anyway, Al Bhed is what I use to write my journal. Very useful. And I agree that journals are helpful. It's really interesting to sit down and read past entries.

 

RPGs are fun too. I'm an addict. I try not to play them too much though, I can get obsessed easily. It's a way to escape from this world and into another to let your imagination flow, and you can be whoever you want to be.

 

I also enjoy programming... to an extent. I'm not that good, the best I can program, as far as games go, is text-based RPGs. I was thinking about programming a MUD. That might be cool.

 

Right. One way I've heard this expressed (I forget where.):

 

You may not know, or have any way to know what it is that I have in my pocket. But you know it's not a live elephant.

 

Christianity asks you to believe they've got an elephant in their pocket.

Yes. And when you claim there isn't an elephant in the pocket, they demand from you an answer as to what exactly it is. You can't say "I don't know," even though we honestly don't know. They'd rather believe a lie than not believe anything at all.

[Amethyst]

Writing is one of my favorite hobbies. Have you ever hard of the Final Fantasy games? If you have, you may remember in Final Fantasy X the Al Bhed people. Lol, I learned how to write in Al Bhed. So did one of my friends. It's how we pass notes in class without worrying about other people reading it. Anyway, Al Bhed is what I use to write my journal. Very useful. And I agree that journals are helpful. It's really interesting to sit down and read past entries.

 

RPGs are fun too. I'm an addict. I try not to play them too much though, I can get obsessed easily. It's a way to escape from this world and into another to let your imagination flow, and you can be whoever you want to be.

 

I also enjoy programming... to an extent. I'm not that good, the best I can program, as far as games go, is text-based RPGs. I was thinking about programming a MUD. That might be cool.

 

Never played Final Fantasy, but I've been seriously tempted to. I like RPGs for the same reason I like books and writing, especially in the science fiction and fantasy genres. They are a great vacation from planet Earth (at least, Earth as we know it).

[Onyx]

I'm 16 years old as well.

I'm on EXC to know about what really is the Truth and to work through my newly refound atheism.

You see, when I was baby to 11 years old I was sort of an atheist, I didn't care for any gods and I thought Bible was a good story not a real historical and spiritual book.

 

When I was 11 years old, I converted to Christianity.

I was a serious Christian. So serious, I followed No images and Only one god to the T. In fact, I followed almost all of the Ten commandants

except for lying.

 

When I was 14, I looked at a religious forum and that was the beginning of me finding atheism again. My only ever religious arguement against an atheist failed.

So I gave it all up cold turkey and someone recommended me EXC.

I haven't looked back since.

 

Welcome, Dra!

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

Never played Final Fantasy, but I've been seriously tempted to. I like RPGs for the same reason I like books and writing, especially in the science fiction and fantasy genres. They are a great vacation from planet Earth (at least, Earth as we know it).

The Final Fantasy Games are okay... They aren't really my type of RPG because most of them are set in a futuristic stage, and you don't really make you're own characters. You just play the ones they give you. They do have awesome storylines though... I'll give them that. I really liked 9.

 

Speaking of Al Bhed, my name is actually Al Bhed. Dra Mucd Uha = The Lost One

 

I'm not lost anymore though.

 

I'm 16 years old as well.

I'm on EXC to know about what really is the Truth and to work through my newly refound atheism.

You see, when I was baby to 11 years old I was sort of an atheist, I didn't care for any gods and I thought Bible was a good story not a real historical and spiritual book.

 

When I was 11 years old, I converted to Christianity.

I was a serious Christian. So serious, I followed No images and Only one god to the T. In fact, I followed almost all of the Ten commandants

except for lying.

 

When I was 14, I looked at a religious forum and that was the beginning of me finding atheism again. My only ever religious arguement against an atheist failed.

So I gave it all up cold turkey and someone recommended me EXC.

I haven't looked back since.

 

Welcome, Dra!

Hey good to meet you. I always like meeting other people my age who are Atheists. Make the number 11 to be 14, and you have my story as well. If you don't mind me asking, how was leaving Christianity for you? I may go look for your testimony, because I'm somewhat confused as to what I should do.