Guest Penny Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Copied from Netscape Connect: Mathematics Proves Christ's Resurrection? It is faith, not proof, that makes Christians believe in Jesus Christ's resurrection, the central tenet of the religion. Until now. Oxford University professor Richard Swinburne, a leading philosopher of religion, has seemingly done the impossible. Using logic and mathematics, he has created a formula that he says shows a 97 percent certainty that Jesus Christ was resurrected by God the Father, report The Age and Catholic News. This stunning conclusion was made based on a series of complex calculations grounded in the following logic: 1. The probably of God's existence is one in two. That is, God either exists or doesn't. 2. The probability that God became incarnate, that is embodied in human form, is also one in two. 3. The evidence for God's existence is an argument for the resurrection. 4. The chance of Christ's resurrection not being reported by the gospels has a probability of one in 10. 5. Considering all these factors together, there is a one in 1,000 chance that the resurrection is not true. "New Testament scholars say the only evidences are witnesses in the four gospels. That's only five percent of the evidence," Swinburne said in a lecture he gave at the Australian Catholic University in Melbourne. "We can't judge the question of the resurrection unless we ask first whether there's reason to suppose there is a God. Secondly, if we have reason to suppose he would become incarnate, and thirdly, if he did, whether he would live the sort of life Jesus did." He says that even Jesus' life is not enough proof. However, the resurrection is "God's signature," which shows "his approval of Jesus' teaching." The calculations that Swinburne says prove the resurrection are detailed in his book, "The Resurrection of God Incarnate." I'd like to hear what you godless hippies have to say about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greygirl Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I completely suck at math, and even I know that "proof" is a load of crap. If the probability of god's existence is 1 in 2, then so is the probability of the existence of the IPU, the FSM, and monkeys flying out of my ass. I'm fairly certain there is not a 50/50 chance monkeys are going to fly out of my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I am not sure what about this is mathematical or logical. If the possiblity of Jehova's existence is 1 in 2, then what's the possiblity of Vishnu's existence? Or Apollo's? Or Ra's? Also why would the odds of this god coming to earth as a human be 1 in 2? Wouldn't the odds be the same if he came to earth as an invisible pink unicorn? Since this whole arugment builds on itself the end result is you have a wild guess. Doesn't that pretty much get us right back where we started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunraveler Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 i am no mathematician but i can say one thing is that in psuedo science, those peddlers tend to put in alot of mumbo jumbo to make ppl confuse and make it sound convincing which i think this guy is trying to do. how da hell do u connect something mythical with mathematics? i'd like him to work out the odds of me becoming god... and oh btw, stats and probabilities are usually the places in mathematical science where one can go wrong big time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manta Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 He forgot to factor in these: Probability that Chirstianity is the one true religion over 20 or so other probabilities: 1/20 Probability that the ressurection was not simple stage magician trick: 1/100 Probability that everything was fudged 100 years later: 1/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 First of al the math is wrong. The probability decreases with the added number of conditions. The chances (for the few selected events or options) are together 1/1000 that Jesus was resurrected. But then you have to add, what are the chances Jesus was born, was a Jew, was son of God, was killed on a cross, died on passover... etc. For each one 1/2, and we could make up a couple of trillions of events that must have happened for it to be true, so in the end it's the chance of 1/infinity, which can be rounded of to 0 (zero). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 after all this theres still the whole world is flat, etc... crap. christ inc. never revealed anything scientific to give people an acurate understanding of the world around them. when you solve that then you can talk, but only to explain the million other things wrong with your history/religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotter Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 To Professor Swinburne, Using your computational logic: 1. The probably of God's existence is one in two. That is, God either exists or doesn't. 2. The probability that God did convey the message of Islam to Muhammad, is also one in two. 3. The evidence for God's existence is an argument for the spread of Islam by Muhammad and his followers. 4. The chance of the evangelization of Islam not reported by history has a probability of 0. 5. Considering all these factors together, ....there is even a stronger case for the validity of Islam. I do not question your Christian beliefs, but you should also consider embracing Islam and be a Muslim at the same time. Those are your rules of the game, so please do not add new conditions such as "there are 300 OT prophecies about Jesus". Same applies to Christian readers who like to defend for Prof. Swinburne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Probability that Chirstianity is the one true religion over 20 or so other probabilities: 1/20 20? More like thousands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Probability that Chirstianity is the one true religion over 20 or so other probabilities: 1/20 20? More like thousands! Yeah. And let's take a look at which kind of Christianity. There's an estimated 37-40 thousand versions of Christians. So to find the "right" church is 1/40,000. And if we look at the world population, every person have their own little idea or version too, so it's more like 1/5,000,000,000 (or is it 6, don't remember...) It's funny that someone wants to tweak statistics and probability to prove a miracle, while they argue against evolution using probability. Chances of Big Bang: 1/2 Chances of Evolution: 1/2 Heck, that means (using the Twisted Christian Mathematics) there's a 3/4 chance that we evolved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 The probability of God's existiance may 1 in 2 but the probability of this guy being a moron is 1 in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 1. The chances that each of you owe me $20 is one in two (either you do or you don't) 2. The chances that each of you owe me $50 is one in two (either you do or you don't) 3. The chances that God WANTS you to send me $100 is one in two (either He does or He doesn't) 4. The chances that God exists and became a human to be tortured in order to satisfy a rule He made so He doesn't have to be pissed at Himself is one in two. 5. The chances that the guy who wrote that piece is full of crap is one in one (although the odds of him realizing what a moron he is, like his IQ, considerably lower.) Logical conclusion: God exists and wants you each to send me at least $20, but probably $50-- and if you're a Christian then you should send $100. Just send it care of this website and God will take it from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Everon Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Well, having a master's in mathematics, I can easily conclude that this is pure satire or the reasoning and logic of a demented nutcase. There is nothing mathematical concerning this tripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 The probability of Richard Swinburne's being a bloody wanker is 1. There is no justification for saying that the probability of God's existence is 1/2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Either there is no God, or there is a God, or there is not God, but there is Zeus, or there is no Zeus but there's a Thor, or not, because there's a Apollo, or maybe not, but instead there is a Cute Bunny, or Invisible Pink Unicorn, or FSM, or Zoroaster, or Allah, or Aslan or ... for each new "god", wouldn't the probability be more like 1/"very large number" (which is close to zero). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Mathematics also proves Jesus was able to fuck himself in his own asshole. Here's the proof: Heat of the Meat = (Mass of the Ass X Angle of the Dangle) / Throb of the Knob If one properly studies and understands the book of Revelation, he will see that this equation is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Actually, the good professor opens up a huge can of theological worms here. For instance, what can be said that if Jesus is God, then what can it mean that he suffered on the cross for sin? And in that case, what did Jesus then actually sacrifice? An all powerful God suffering? It's an old problem that theologians since the 4th century have been trying to solve. Never have, and IMO never will be able to. The incoherence of the trinity is ignored and accepted only as an article of faith. All reasoning on the nature of the trinity eventually ends up by either an appeal to modelism (saw a priest on tv once explaining to childern, via Alka Seltzer what the trinity was) or completely erasing the middle ground of identity. Back to zero in other words. And besides, the good doc, left out the holy ghost. Where's that in his equations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Oh oh oh!!! The first thing I thought when I saw that article was that "hey, it's not 1:2 odds.. it is 1:(however many cosmologies/religions there are)." I am no logician, but that seems pretty intuitive to me... maybe I'm wrong. If I am not, I can't believe this guy got this garbage published somehow. Either there is no God, or there is a God, or there is not God, but there is Zeus, or there is no Zeus but there's a Thor, or not, because there's a Apollo, or maybe not, but instead there is a Cute Bunny, or Invisible Pink Unicorn, or FSM, or Zoroaster, or Allah, or Aslan or ... for each new "god", wouldn't the probability be more like 1/"very large number" (which is close to zero). Ah, see? I knew I was right. I was thinking the same thing, Hans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcissist Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 This guy's maths is as flawed as his arguments. this thread has already shown that this sort of argument can be used to prove anything. Here's some example of my own: Probability that God exists: 1/2 (either he exists or doesn't) Probability that I am God: 1/2 (either I am or aren't) Probability that my dick is the biggest in the known universe: 1/2 (either is or isn't) Therefore there is a 7/8 chance that I am God and I have the biggest dick in the known universe. Probability that this Swinburne is a dickhead 1/1. Very funny Kryten. Cheque is in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'll take bifurcation for $400, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Probability that my dick is the biggest in the known universe: 1/2 (either is or isn't) Actually since mine has already proven to be so, that changes your numbers a bit, but - not being a mathemetician and all - I have no idea how.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 ... Therefore there is a 7/8 chance that I am God and I have the biggest dick in the known universe. Probability that this Swinburne is a dickhead 1/1. This thread has evolved into "How to prove 'whatever' with Christian sdrawkcaB (backwards) Math" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Oh oh oh!!! The first thing I thought when I saw that article was that "hey, it's not 1:2 odds.. it is 1:(however many cosmologies/religions there are)." I am no logician, but that seems pretty intuitive to me... maybe I'm wrong. ... Ah, see? I knew I was right. I was thinking the same thing, Hans. Mediocre minds think alike. But there are two ways of looking at the "existence of God probability" 1. Only one God can exists, and all the rest are false, or no God exists at all. Then we'll get 1/"huge number" (= 0) 2. Or, one or many Gods can co-exist, or no God exists at all, then the probability for each one of the gods would be 1/2. Example, Does God (Judeo/Christian) exist and/or Zeus? a. God=0, Zeus=0 b. God=1, Zeus=0 c. God=1, Zeus=1 d. God=0, Zeus=1 That gives probability for God 1/2, and probability for Zeus 1/2, and probability for no god at all 1/4. So to solve this, one has to first establish if more than one god can exist at the same time. And how can we know this? There's no way of knowing it, and most likely the believer would say "no, they can't". Which would force the probability to follow the first formula, and the probability is close to zero. Only if they agree to the gods to be able to co-exists, would the probability rise to 1/2. That's a believers conundrum of the 3rd degree. They have to allow other gods to possibly exist, before their own god have a probability to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Penny Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 You'd think an Oxford University professor would come up with something a little more substantial then this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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