There is a creator. You will never convince me otherwise. I'm here because I'm done hoping for goodness. I may crawl back to him since there's no alternative. These are parameters I'll converse in, please keep it there. I'm not here to argue or sway.

[Guest blah]

So, I know there is a creator.  D.N.A. is more than just words, it is highly complex, 3 dimensional, multi-coded and communicative microscopic matter that uses matter to shape highly designed animate objects.  This must be formed in an instant.  It is in all things living, even the so-called simplest forms.  It is not like a cake that can be made over the course of a few hours, or an engine for an automobile that can be fashioned over a period of time.  Every single bit of the millions upon multiplied millions of instructions and capability to perform said instruction must be altogether at once, or it all falls apart fast.   There are many other things that point to design and GREAT intellect and power, but this is one of the most overlooked facts that living beings are ignorant of or choose to mud-over.

 

So, those of you that want to tell me there is no god, please, don't.  I notice that many claim there is no god out of some rationality, which I respect, but emphatically do not agree with.  I believe that many that think there is no god are smarter than I.  I am not here for that exercise or lesson.

 

I am here because no matter how much I ask or beg him or try to believe the good parts of his word or try to do his will, my life and this world do not seem to match up with being cared for by a god that loves me so much he would pay the price for all my sin -Forgetting the fact that he allowed or caused me to be born in sin.  I don't mean that to say my actions are not my responsibility, I mean that if I am conscious of my sin, understand why they would be a sin, and try not to do them knowing that the price for them can only be paid for and forgiven by said god, why do I not even 'feel' loved by him who loved me so much he died for me, yet won't even say hi.  Yes there are times when you can enjoy the wonder and marvel of it all, but it is fleeting and not enough to trust in for eternity.

 

god in his word, makes comparisons about how much more he loves us than an earthly father does, yet children get hit by cars frequently.  Any earthly human that claims to be a father would make every effort to stop that from happening, forget free will.  A father would break his own bones and maybe some of his child's to knock them out of the way of a car.  My problem is I know that the god that made just d.n.a., nevermind the universe, has the power to do this.  Unless he is diminished in power, then his claim to good fatherhood is null.  Yes there is a verse for everything in the bible, like 'in this world you will have trials and sorrows,' but to me that is just a long list of things that maybe even god himself just said to cover everything.

 

To be clear, I want goodness, and have totally admitted I need salvation, and will go so far as to say that god is the only alternative and I don't want to burn in hell.  It just really seems like maybe god didn't get the whole picture by 'ALL KNOWING observation and being sort of human for 33 years.

 

Oddly enough, I am here for help with this, since I am honestly seeking it.  If you attempt to help, not hurt, remember, you WILL NOT convince me there is no god.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

What if god isn't jehovah or jesus?  What if god is something completely different from what is written in all of the holy books?  What if each of us only see a little piece of god but none of us sees the whole picture?  god can be anything you want god to be.  Why limit yourself, and your god, to what is written in one single holy book compiled thousands of years ago by bronze age goat herders?  Do you think they had a better connection to god than you or I can have today? 

[florduh]

4 hours ago, blah said:

I know there is a creator.  D.N.A. is more than just words, it is highly complex...

You don't understand it so it must be magic?

 

4 hours ago, blah said:

you WILL NOT convince me there is no god.

That's nobody's job. It is YOU making the claim who needs to do the convincing. I don't care what anyone believes but I am always very curious as to WHY they would hold such beliefs.

 

And to be clear, you are only entertaining the god portrayed by the particular culture that you grew up in, right? To go further in understanding, so we have a better idea of what you specifically believe, which Christian sect defined that god you referenced?

[midniterider]

4 hours ago, blah said:

So, I know there is a creator.  D.N.A. is more than just words, it is highly complex, 3 dimensional, multi-coded and communicative microscopic matter that uses matter to shape highly designed animate objects.  This must be formed in an instant.  It is in all things living, even the so-called simplest forms.  It is not like a cake that can be made over the course of a few hours, or an engine for an automobile that can be fashioned over a period of time.  Every single bit of the millions upon multiplied millions of instructions and capability to perform said instruction must be altogether at once, or it all falls apart fast.   There are many other things that point to design and GREAT intellect and power, but this is one of the most overlooked facts that living beings are ignorant of or choose to mud-over.

 

So, those of you that want to tell me there is no god, please, don't.  I notice that many claim there is no god out of some rationality, which I respect, but emphatically do not agree with.  I believe that many that think there is no god are smarter than I.  I am not here for that exercise or lesson.

 

I'm agnostic. There may be a God. I just dont think he/it necessarily aligns with the loving personality of the God as described in the bible or Christianity in general.  

 

4 hours ago, blah said:

 

I am here because no matter how much I ask or beg him or try to believe the good parts of his word or try to do his will, my life and this world do not seem to match up with being cared for by a god that loves me so much he would pay the price for all my sin -Forgetting the fact that he allowed or caused me to be born in sin.  I don't mean that to say my actions are not my responsibility, I mean that if I am conscious of my sin, understand why they would be a sin, and try not to do them knowing that the price for them can only be paid for and forgiven by said god, why do I not even 'feel' loved by him who loved me so much he died for me, yet won't even say hi.  Yes there are times when you can enjoy the wonder and marvel of it all, but it is fleeting and not enough to trust in for eternity.

 

Yes, we still have murder, rape, child sex trafficking, seemingly under the watch of what Christians say is a loving God. How does that work? It reminds me of Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

― Epicurus

 

4 hours ago, blah said:

 

god in his word, makes comparisons about how much more he loves us than an earthly father does, yet children get hit by cars frequently.  Any earthly human that claims to be a father would make every effort to stop that from happening, forget free will.  A father would break his own bones and maybe some of his child's to knock them out of the way of a car.  My problem is I know that the god that made just d.n.a., nevermind the universe, has the power to do this.  Unless he is diminished in power, then his claim to good fatherhood is null.  Yes there is a verse for everything in the bible, like 'in this world you will have trials and sorrows,' but to me that is just a long list of things that maybe even god himself just said to cover everything.

 

If his claim to good fatherhood is null, is he worthy of praise? If he allows innocents to suffer or die, is he worthy of praise? If he 'loves' us but never communicates, is he worthy of praise? Why or or why not?

 

4 hours ago, blah said:

 

To be clear, I want goodness, and have totally admitted I need salvation, and will go so far as to say that god is the only alternative and I don't want to burn in hell.  It just really seems like maybe god didn't get the whole picture by 'ALL KNOWING observation and being sort of human for 33 years.

 

Oddly enough, I am here for help with this, since I am honestly seeking it.  If you attempt to help, not hurt, remember, you WILL NOT convince me there is no god.

 

If God lets his creations burn in hell , is he worthy of praise? If he lets good people who dont believe in him burn in hell, is he worthy of praise? 

 

[midniterider]

@Weezer, any helpful words for Blah?

[Astreja]

Blah, only you can convince yourself that there's no god.

 

I, however, am increasingly certain that there isn't.  In particular, I find the god of the Bible to be a totally inept, inconsistent character whose behaviours betray the ignorance and personal agendas of the mortals who wrote the Bible stories.  Unlike the gods of other mythologies, who occasionally serve as useful archetypes and role models, Yahweh has no redeeming qualities.

 

And I don't think that a god dying (even temporarily) for someone else's "sins" is a very good idea at all.  I believe firmly that everyone should pay their own debts, and therefore I reject substitutionary atonement unconditionally.

 

There is also no justification whatsoever for eternal punishment of anyone.  To cause someone to suffer unceasingly for eternity is an act of infinite evil.  Do you really want to worship an infinitely evil god?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Perhaps this will be of interest:

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

According to this link, the identity of the creator is Allah and the evidence for that is found in what the Quran says about our DNA.

 

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

19 hours ago, blah said:

So, I know there is a creator.

 

There is a little quote I like to use when people say they "know" something. It's along the lines of "If you can't show it, then you don't know it". This is basically saying that if you can't provide evidence for what you "know" then you don't really know it. And claims presented without evidence can be dismissed without consideration. That's another quote - from Hitchens I believe.

 

19 hours ago, blah said:

D.N.A. is more than just words, it is highly complex, 3 dimensional, multi-coded and communicative microscopic matter that uses matter to shape highly designed animate objects.  This must be formed in an instant.  It is in all things living, even the so-called simplest forms.  It is not like a cake that can be made over the course of a few hours, or an engine for an automobile that can be fashioned over a period of time.  Every single bit of the millions upon multiplied millions of instructions and capability to perform said instruction must be altogether at once, or it all falls apart fast.   There are many other things that point to design and GREAT intellect and power, but this is one of the most overlooked facts that living beings are ignorant of or choose to mud-over.

 

I'm not a biologist, but even I can tell you have a gross misunderstanding of what DNA is.

 

Also if you think life is intelligently designed then consider the fact a giraffes laryngeal nerve travels a path far longer than logic and design would dictate The Laryngeal Nerve of the Giraffe is Proof of Natural Selection | ScienceBlogs. The fact that a certain species of pig grows tusks that curve and end up growing into the brain. The fact that there are lifeforms that must burrow into the eye of a human in order to reproduce. There are many other examples. If it's made by a designer then that designer is a bumbling fool.

 

19 hours ago, blah said:

So, those of you that want to tell me there is no god, please, don't.  I notice that many claim there is no god out of some rationality, which I respect, but emphatically do not agree with.  I believe that many that think there is no god are smarter than I.  I am not here for that exercise or lesson.

 

I generally don't tell people there is no god. If they tell me there is one I ask for evidence. Still waiting. And occasionally I will probe as to the reasons why they believe in their particular favourite deity.

 

What strikes me is that you have referred to your God as "he/him/his" These are gender terminologies humans use to differentiate between sexes and genders depending on context. These are defined by characteristics such as having ovaries or testes, breasts or penis's etc. So can you explain to me what sexual characteristics your God has that leads you to refer to it in the male sense?

 

19 hours ago, blah said:

Oddly enough, I am here for help with this, since I am honestly seeking it.  If you attempt to help, not hurt, remember, you WILL NOT convince me there is no god.

 

If you are not willing to consider the possibility, however remote you think it is, that you might be wrong then discussion is pointless.

 

It was telling in the debate between Bill Nye (Science educator) and Ken Ham (Creationist extraordinaire) they were asked what would make them change their mind about their world views, particularly in regards to evolution.

 

Bill Nye's answer: "A rabbit fossil in the Cambrian layer"

 

Ken Ham's answer "Nothing will ever convince me..."

 

If your answer is nothing will ever convince you, then you are unreasonable by definition.

[DLost]

Couldn't agree more.

https://viralstyle.com/c/Qk2Gnk

https://viralstyle.com/happyworkt/no-hills-help-mercy-atheist-ex-christi

https://viralstyle.com/store/happyworkt/brokenhearted-christian/1

[DLost]

Couldn't agree more.

https://viralstyle.com/c/Qk2Gnk

https://viralstyle.com/happyworkt/no-hills-help-mercy-atheist-ex-christi

https://viralstyle.com/store/happyworkt/brokenhearted-christian/1

[florduh]

2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

If your answer is nothing will ever convince you, then you are unreasonable by definition.

This bears repeating.

[Guest blah]

about what i expected, i'll go be lost elsewhere, sheesh

[florduh]

17 minutes ago, blah said:

about what i expected, i'll go be lost elsewhere, sheesh

We are glad to discuss if there's any point in doing so. It seems likely not since you stated up front you're not listening to any facts that don't support your already held position. Stick around, discuss the arguments or fuck off. Makes no difference to me.

[Guest blah]

yeah, about that, I'm not having much luck closing my account.... I have contacted admin with no reply yet, and i see that surprisingly you have 'super moderator' next to your moniker-- maybe you can help?, i think i have clicked on every menu tree option but can't find option to close account

[midniterider]

37 minutes ago, blah said:

about what i expected, i'll go be lost elsewhere, sheesh

 

What exactly were you hoping ex-believers would say?

 

Your parameters:

 

"There is a creator. You will never convince me otherwise."

"These are parameters I'll converse in, please keep it there. I'm not here to argue or sway."

 

 

[Guest blah]

obviously my questions are more about the character of said creator

[midniterider]

Just now, blah said:

obviously my questions are more about the character of said creator

 

What are your thoughts about the creator? If he doesnt want to appear, speak , and allows evil? I know what mine are. 

[midniterider]

I'm not trying to 'tell' you what to believe or what to feel. Believe however you like.

[Guest blah]

pretty much if I beg my daddy who claims to be good and he doesn't answer (minus all the mysterious ways stuff which doesn't help what I am referring to) then i don't know how he could expect me to trust him, and jesus, who became man could never experience that feeling so he really doesn't know what it's like

[Guest blah]

anyone know how to cancel account?  have contacted admin, and can't seem to find the option

[midniterider]

6 minutes ago, blah said:

pretty much if I beg my daddy who claims to be good and he doesn't answer (minus all the mysterious ways stuff which doesn't help what I am referring to) then i don't know how he could expect me to trust him, and jesus, who became man could never experience that feeling so he really doesn't know what it's like

 

Makes sense. How could you trust him? 

 

A God man probably couldnt understand his own creation, not really being one of them. 

[midniterider]

6 minutes ago, blah said:

anyone know how to cancel account?  have contacted admin, and can't seem to find the option

 

When the admin returns he can cancel it. 

[midniterider]

Maybe ask God about how you dont trust him and see what he has to say?

[walterpthefirst]

I see that you've written 'real proof and reason the real god' in your membership description, blah.

 

 

In your haste to depart please don't overlook these points.

 

 

1.

Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic.  Therefore, things believed by faith cannot be proved.  They are believed to be true in the absence of proof and of evidence.

 

Check out Hebrews 11 to see how this works.

 

 

2.

Proofs don't exist in any of the empirical sciences, only in mathematics.  So genetics will not give you proof of anything about DNA.  Genetics deals in evidence, not proofs.

 

 

3.

Science is agnostic about matters of religion and faith, so any scientific evidence about DNA is also agnostic.  Therefore all of science is silent on the subject of a creator.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.