Was Jesus the perfect man?

[Fish153]

Astreja--

Thanks. There are some who believe "Jesus" was a complete figment of the imagination, whether he performed miracles or not, so it's good to hear you acknowledge that a "Jesus" did exist, as Josephus states. Of course I completely disagree with you about him being dead. He is alive in Heaven as I write this. 

[walterpthefirst]

42 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Astreja--

Thanks. There are some who believe "Jesus" was a complete figment of the imagination, whether he performed miracles or not, so it's good to hear you acknowledge that a "Jesus" did exist, as Josephus states. Of course I completely disagree with you about him being dead. He is alive in Heaven as I write this. 

 

Which you only 'know' by faith and not by any kind of objective evidence, Fish.

 

As you agreed, it's all in your head.

[Fish153]

Walter—

Yes— totally agree. I can’t prove He is in Heaven right now. But your saying he is not does not remove him from Heaven if He’s there either.

[walterpthefirst]

15 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Walter—

Yes— totally agree. I can’t prove He is in Heaven right now. But your saying he is not does not remove him from Heaven if He’s there either.

 

Please don't twist my words, Fish.

 

I did NOT say that Jesus is not in heaven.

 

If you are going to quote me or report what I write, then please have the courtesy to do it right.

 

Otherwise you will be in danger of bearing false witness against me.

 

 

My comments were specifically and only about what's inside your head.

 

Not about anything that did or didn't happen in heaven.

 

 

If you find this forum's standards of accuracy too exacting and too tiresome... tough.

[Astreja]

2 hours ago, Fish153 said:

Astreja--

Thanks. There are some who believe "Jesus" was a complete figment of the imagination, whether he performed miracles or not, so it's good to hear you acknowledge that a "Jesus" did exist, as Josephus states. Of course I completely disagree with you about him being dead. He is alive in Heaven as I write this. 

 

Don't quote-mine me, Fish.  I think that there's a possibility there was a real-life Jesus.  Read my post again.  I clearly said "if."

 

And if there was (which remains to be seen), I believe that he was no more than a mortal man and has been dead for nearly 2000 years - this I believe with 100% certainty, as I have 0% belief in resurrection.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, walterpthefirst said:

If you are going to quote me or report what I write, then please have the courtesy to do it right.

@Fish153, you will find the quote feature at the bottom right hand of each post.  Please familiarize yourself with it and use it appropriately.  Thank you.

 

 

[Fish153]

Walter--

I'm not twisting your words. From what you have stated it appears you do not believe Jesus is in Heaven. But you can't PROVEt hat, anymore than I can PROVE he IS there. How is that twisting your words, Or am I wrong and you DO believe Jesus is in Heaven?

[Fish153]

Redneck--

The quote feature appears to be at the bottom LEFT hand of each quote. Everyone is so exact about things here that I'm afraid to follow your instructions. Did you mean left?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

21 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck--

The quote feature appears to be at the bottom LEFT hand of each quote. Everyone is so exact about things here that I'm afraid to follow your instructions. Did you mean left?

Yes. 

[Joshpantera]

1 hour ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck--

The quote feature appears to be at the bottom LEFT hand of each quote. Everyone is so exact about things here that I'm afraid to follow your instructions. Did you mean left?

 

A mix up. 

 

Jesus = right hand of god according to the myth.

 

Quote feature = left hand of post according to objective reality. 

 

Got it? Good. 

 

Continue.....

[walterpthefirst]

2 hours ago, Fish153 said:

Walter--

I'm not twisting your words. From what you have stated it appears you do not believe Jesus is in Heaven. But you can't PROVEt hat, anymore than I can PROVE he IS there. How is that twisting your words, Or am I wrong and you DO believe Jesus is in Heaven?

 

Shame on you, Fish.

 

You are trying to shift the goalposts here.  From what I have written, which you can see.  To what you believe I think, which you cannot see.

 

Here is what I wrote, complete with your postings.

 

Astreja--

Thanks. There are some who believe "Jesus" was a complete figment of the imagination, whether he performed miracles or not, so it's good to hear you acknowledge that a "Jesus" did exist, as Josephus states. Of course I completely disagree with you about him being dead. He is alive in Heaven as I write this. 

 

Which you only 'know' by faith and not by any kind of objective evidence, Fish.

As you agreed, it's all in your head.

 

Do I say anything about Jesus here?  No.  I confine myself specifically to what you claim to know.  Two different things.

 

And again.

Walter—

Yes— totally agree. I can’t prove He is in Heaven right now. But your saying he is not does not remove him from Heaven if He’s there either.

 

Please don't twist my words, Fish.

I did NOT say that Jesus is not in heaven.

If you are going to quote me or report what I write, then please have the courtesy to do it right.

Otherwise you will be in danger of bearing false witness against me.

My comments were specifically and only about what's inside your head.

Not about anything that did or didn't happen in heaven.

If you find this forum's standards of accuracy too exacting and too tiresome... tough.

 

Here I make it abundantly clear that I have written nothing about where Jesus is or isn't.  I also make it clear that I am writing only about your thoughts, not about proving where Jesus might or might not be.  Once again, these are two different things.  

 

And here is what I wrote in the other thread.

 

Fish, 

Are you so focused on yourself that you don't even bother to read our messages properly?

I reckon so, because you've misquoted me again.

Please look at the sentence above I've highlighted for your attention.

Here it is again.

There is no way you can prove Jesus is NOT in Heaven right now, any more than I can prove He IS there.

Yesterday I told you that I DID NOT SAY THAT JESUS WASN'T IN HEAVEN !

Nor did I say that I could prove anything about him.

You are bearing false witness against me when you claim that I said that.

I didn't.

Stop misquoting me.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Stop telling lies about me.

 

You see?  This has nothing to do with what I might be thinking and everything to do with what I've written.  Do you get it now?

 

What I might be thinking doesn't appear anywhere in these threads.  All you can see is what I've written.

 

And twice now you've attributed things to me which I have NOT written.  That is twisting the meaning of what I have written to mean something else.

 

That is bearing false witness against me.  That is telling lies about me.

 

 

This issue has nothing to do with what I might be thinking because my thoughts about where Jesus is or isn't have not appeared in writing in these threads.

 

So, are you going to apologise for misquoting me, for twisting the meaning of my written words, for bearing false witness against me and for lying about me?

 

 

Please answer this last question asap.

 

Walter.

[walterpthefirst]

Fish,

 

JoshPantera and the RedneckProfessor have shown you how to use the 'quote' function.

 

So, why don't you put your new-found skills into practice and quote me?

 

Where I've written that Jesus is not in heaven.

 

Not where you infer that about my thinking.

 

But exactly where I write these words.

 

Go on, quote me.

[Astreja]

Don't hold your breath, Walter - it's easier for him to put words in our mouths if our actual statements aren't embedded in his replies.  It's a cheap ruse to make him appear less inept in his attempt to refute us.

 

Fish, do you believe that your "salvation" entitles you to continue to sin (in this case, breaking the commandment against bearing false witness)?  If not, what do you believe your punishment should be for repeatedly committing that particular sin?

[walterpthefirst]

4 minutes ago, Astreja said:

Don't hold your breath, Walter - it's easier for him to put words in our mouths if our actual statements aren't embedded in his replies.  It's a cheap ruse to make him appear less inept in his attempt to refute us.

 

Fish, do you believe that your "salvation" entitles you to continue to sin (in this case, breaking the commandment against bearing false witness)?  If not, what do you believe your punishment should be for repeatedly committing that particular sin?

 

It's ok, Astreja.

 

The longer he holds out on this the less people in this forum will trust him.

 

Assuming that he actually wanted that outcome.

 

If he didn't, then what's he doing in this forum?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

[Joshpantera]

2 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

It's ok, Astreja.

 

The longer he holds out on this the less people in this forum will trust him.

 

Assuming that he actually wanted that outcome.

 

If he didn't, then what's he doing in this forum?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

He's come here thinking he's an expert at posting on ex christian forums. Boasting about how his arguments are so good that ex christians have to ban him. 

 

But he's hit a brick wall here at THIS forum. 

 

1) We haven't banned him. 

2) We've pinned him into corners that he cannot escape from without quietly leaving. 

3) Everyone can read through these exchanges and follow along as he loses ground with his boastful arguments that tank when challenged. 

4) His arguments, every one of them so far, are just plain silly and easily refuted. 

5) He's likely lying about the previous ex christian forums. 

6) His arguments are too silly for anyone with experience as an ex christian to get very upset about and I don't believe him about these other so-called "ex-christians." 

7) They probably kicked his ass in debate, and he's probably covered his wounds with more self-delusion.