Fishapod Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I am a long time lurker, and have decided to take the plunge. Thanks to everyone for creating this forum. Here is a video where Christians teach other Christians how to confront atheists: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5479410612081345878 At minute 13:00 into the video, there is an actual confrontation (if you wait a minute for Google to buffer it, you can actually move the slider to minute 13:00 if you do not want to watch the whole thing). The first series of questions are easy - "do you have a car? Do you believe the car happened by accident? Who created creation?" At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 lying makes me human, and by that I mean I'm not perfect. I choose certain actions whether good or bad. I find the second line offensive as they're trying to take an imperfect person and making them sound as if their baby killers or mass murderers. Personally, I don't get why god would punish a human being for not believing if humans do indeed have free will. "Believe in me or go to hell" that's emotional and spiritual blackmail. its disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I am a long time lurker, and have decided to take the plunge. Thanks to everyone for creating this forum. Hello and welcome. The first series of questions are easy - "do you have a car? Do you believe the car happened by accident? Who created creation?" I would answer yes, it was created by accident. By accident of an evolved being with that capability, like a beaver and her dam, like a bird and her nest. At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. I would answer with a question. By what standard am I to judge my self. If they say God's, I would ask which god? IF they say the God of the bible, then I would say that compared to that homicidal maniac I am a Saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open_Minded Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. Well .... Actually .... people on this forum have already replied to this line of questioning. See the following: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&s...ndpost&p=135112 Let me explain what I mean. Every person in here has told at least one lie in your life. Who hasn't? You are a liar. Every person in here has taken something that didn't belong to you. I had thousands of dollars of pirated software. I used to go around work taking food out of people's desks. I've shoplifted. Who hasn't taken something, even small, such as a ball-point pen or a paper clip? How about taking your boss's time by doing personal things? (I'm still guilty of that one.) You are a thief. Every person in here has had lustful thoughts about someone else. I had gigs of pr0n and was willing to peddle it to others. Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27,28 ESV) You are an adulterer. Every person in here has hated someone else. I used to hate my parents. The bible says, "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer." (1 John 3:15 ESV) You are a murderer. When God opens the book of your life, you will be revealed as a lying, thieving, adulterous murderer. And that's just a few of the commandments! The real crusher is James 2:10: "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." (ESV) Everyone owes a debt for their sin. Everyone has a price on their heads for their sins against God. No one can pay it. And oddly enough ... the questioners name is Chris , go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 *cough*Ray*cough*Comfort*cough*The Way of the Master*cough*been there*cough*done that*cough*got the t-shirt*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Ah, yes. The wild and wacky fun world of Ray "Not Really Any" Comfort and Kirk "Former Mediocre Child Star Now Mediocre Evangelist" Cameron. Refuting those guys is like a walk in the park. Their arguments are full of false premises and bad logic. It does not follow, for instance, that simply because one's car has a creator, that the universe does as well - unless the universe is a Ford Galaxy, of course. The only thing the existence of the universe demonstrates is that the universe exists. And that whole schlock about "Are you a good person?" is just a manipulative ploy to trick stupid people into buying their product. It essentially sets listeners up to believe that they have a problem, then offering The Solution they don't really need in the first place. The only thing the whole line of questioning demonstrates is that nobody on the entire damn planet would ever measure up to the impossible standards of perfection supposedly outlined by BibleGodZilla - but then, who'd really want to anyway? I sure as hell don't. BGZ's a tyrant. And how omnipotent is BGZ anyway, if Kirk Cameron found him and still can't act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_funkenstein Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 The first series of questions are easy - "do you have a car? Do you believe the car happened by accident? Who created creation?" I'd say to the christian: "Ok so by your logic, anything that is complex requires a designer, yes? So who designed God?" No doubt the answer would come back "God requires no designer, He simply always has existed." "So why can we not apply the same logic to the universe?" At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. I would reply to this line of questioning by saying that the christian must demonstrate on what basis they claim that I am to be judged after I die. If they point to the bible, which no doubt they will, then I will take a pen and paper and write on it "The book of dr_funkenstein. Chapter 1, Verse 1: All human beings will die and that's the end of it." I will then ask them to explain the difference between my text and theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padreko Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I am a long time lurker, and have decided to take the plunge. Thanks to everyone for creating this forum. Here is a video where Christians teach other Christians how to confront atheists: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5479410612081345878 At minute 13:00 into the video, there is an actual confrontation (if you wait a minute for Google to buffer it, you can actually move the slider to minute 13:00 if you do not want to watch the whole thing). The first series of questions are easy - "do you have a car? Do you believe the car happened by accident? Who created creation?" At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. That guy was pretty weak with his answers. First response would be "yes I'm a good person." And he would've lead me like he did the other guy, but at the end, I would've responded with, good is relative. When I say I'm a good person I mean "I make a concerted effort to maximize utility in the world" and my moral system is revised autonomy "the golden rule secondary to utiliatarianism" also I'm not perfect. So then the thought experiment is as follows: Have I lied? yes Is lying wrong? If it decreases the overall utility in the world. (ie pretending to pass as white, when I'm mixed back in the 20th century america) Is lusting wrong? No Is thieving wrong? Again, that is relative. (utilitarianism) :-D Also the 'atheist' should've dived into epistemology with this d00d. However, I doubt these guys would show a segment where they were intellectually stomped into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I would reply to this line of questioning by saying that the christian must demonstrate on what basis they claim that I am to be judged after I die. If they point to the bible, which no doubt they will, then I will take a pen and paper and write on it "The book of dr_funkenstein. Chapter 1, Verse 1: All human beings will die and that's the end of it." I will then ask them to explain the difference between my text and theirs. Good answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I am a long time lurker, and have decided to take the plunge. Thanks to everyone for creating this forum. Heya Fishapod, welcome to the forums. Greetings from the mad germanic heathen The first series of questions are easy - "do you have a car? Do you believe the car happened by accident? Who created creation?" It never fails to amuse me how fundies take care to use for their mantras only examples of nonliving things which obviously cannot evolve anyway. Let alone that the last question logically leads to "so who created the creator?"... At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. My reply would be something like: "...or so the wholly babble says. Your reasoning depends on the validity of the book, which is questionable at best. If I'm supposed to be impressed now, I suggest you provide some good reasons why I should assume the babble tells the truth and not just some bronze-age fairy tales." Oh, and I might add "Assuming that the babble speaks the truth, its 'god' is clearly a sadistic bastard. Give me a reason to believe any promise given to me by such a dastardly, disgusting entity." *cough*Ray*cough*Comfort*cough*The Way of the Master*cough*been there*cough*done that*cough*got the t-shirt*cough* And burned it, I trust... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcissist Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Welcome Fishapod. Here's my attempt: do you have a car? No. Do you believe the car happened by accident?I don't believe anything about cars. Who created creation? This is the wrong question. It's full of assumtions. "Who" assumes you know that a person did some creating, yet clearly you do not. "Created" assumes you know that that assumed person carried out some sort of creative act, yet clearly, you do not, etc... Would you consider yourself to be a good person? No. Why argue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayman7040 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I have never seen such weak arguments.............These guys are such hacks a five year old could debate them Obviously they do a whole lot of editing. What I wouldn't give to be in the shoes of the people these guys approach. I notice they have that phone number on the screen that means "SEND US MONEY, WE NEED YOUR MONEY" "REPENT AND SEND MONEY" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 And that whole schlock about "Are you a good person?" is just a manipulative ploy to trick stupid people into buying their product. It essentially sets listeners up to believe that they have a problem, then offering The Solution they don't really need in the first place. The only thing the whole line of questioning demonstrates is that nobody on the entire damn planet would ever measure up to the impossible standards of perfection supposedly outlined by BibleGodZilla - but then, who'd really want to anyway? I sure as hell don't. BGZ's a tyrant. Agreed. Their definition of "good" is actually perfect. Well, of course it's impossible to be perfect, but that doesn't mean people deserve to be tortured forever and ever and ever for not being perfect. It is, however, the perfect system to prey on people with low self-esteem who already hate themselves for not being perfect enough. As for the questions do you have a car? Yes. Do you believe the car happened by accident? I don't believe, I know. One can walk into an auto manufacturing company that gives tours, take a tour, and see how cars are built. It's not blind belief like religion is. There is proof that cars were actually made by someone. We have no such proof of earth, let alone the universe. Who created creation? Logical fallacy. You are assuming that someone created it. We cannot assume that if we don't have the evidence, and 2,000 year-old books are NOT enough evidence to make that assumption. Anyone who believes whatever they read, especially just because a particular book was written with "ancient wisdom" or "the spirit of god" or whatever needs to go back to school and learn how to think for themselves. Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Yes. I don't need your stupid religion to tell me otherwise, because I actually have self-esteem and don't worship tyrannical beings who torture people for all of eternity for not being perfect enough for him, like some kind of hypercritical parent. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Who created creation? This is the wrong question. It's full of assumtions. "Who" assumes you know that a person did some creating, yet clearly you do not. "Created" assumes you know that that assumed person carried out some sort of creative act, yet clearly, you do not, etc... Right. My question back: "so God is a man?" They: "No, of course not!" Me: "But it was man who created the car, it was man who created TV, house, roads, so it's natural to assume that God must be a man. You demand that God must have an intellect and thinking process equal to man for it to work. God could be a universe-building-robot for all I know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Think I wiped this off my shorts after the last donkey molesting... Err, umm, yeah, what fun, the little shits go about trying to *fix* me via their cute little stories. Hand me a rag will ya? This stuff is trying to dry on me.. kL >edit: the BANANNNNANNANANANER VID! OH I GOT A 'NANNER NOW!!!!" < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scitsofreaky Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I thought I recognized the video, it's the "Behold the atheist's nightmare, the bananna (wait, is that four "n"s and three "a"s or eight "q"s and four "b"s?)" My god Ray is a jackass and Kirk is a goofy bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Yawn... Ok, so they are poisiting their contrived, formulaic argument, I want to smoke them and ideally get them to show me some of "gods love" (i.e. hit me). First tactic: cut them off at the pass: Do you think your car was made by accident? Responses: Type 1: Wise-Ass: "Have you seen how it (doesn't) run?" Type 2: Cutoff At the Pass: "Lemme guess, you're about the make an argument for an intelligent creator aren't you?" Most probable response: Yes. The response then becomes that well, would you agree that humans are well-designed? If so, how do you account for design flaws? (An organ whose entire purpose is to kill you should count). Then let the fun begin. When asked if I think I am a good person, I'll freely admit, I'm not. Better, though is to just ignore them, attention and publicity get them money, y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 BG, you're actually connecting some important dots there. If it requires a god to create a "perfect" world, but humans aren't perfect, then did god really create it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entgegen Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Holy shit. I'm struggling to keep my blood pressure under control watching that stupid video, and it's only been 3 minutes through. There is so much bullshit spewing fourth from my computer monitor...it's freakin' rediculous. Who do you know that's not saved? ... Now think of their terrible fate if they die, without Christ. Might as well start this thing out with a bang; launching straight for the scare tactics. They're trying to motivate their audience through fear (of course). That's fucking sick. I've since learned, that when you look at the evidence, the truth is, it takes more faith to be an atheist than to believe in God. You really gotta' ignore the facts. What facts?!? The freakin' bible?!? The arguments from personal incredulity? That's funny how we equate the word "atheism" with "intellectual." It's the exact opposite. Yeah...he has a few holes in that argument...And then when he talks about the soda can "happening by chance," equating a spontaneous manifestation of an aluminum canister with evolution, he is just playing to the ignorance and impressionability of his audience by throwing in an argument of incredulity. Such childish bullshit. THEN, if that's not bad enough, the other guy throws in the Darwin quote, and then says: So, even the creator of the theory of evolution says it just goes against my common sense and logic. Do some homework, you fuckin' douche. Explanation of this quote I think I'll stop there for now...and that's just the introduction to the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 THEN, if that's not bad enough, the other guy throws in the Darwin quote, and then says: So, even the creator of the theory of evolution says it just goes against my common sense and logic. I just learned that much in science is by fact counter intuitive. I never thought of it before, but it is. Like the sun that goes "up" and "down", and I drive the car on the road and it seems flat. But science show that earth is going around the sun. So the reality does go against our limited senses and understanding in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 *cough*Ray*cough*Comfort*cough*The Way of the Master*cough*been there*cough*done that*cough*got the t-shirt*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 The right answer to get these people to shut up is the one they don't expect. The first series of questions are easy - "do you have a car? Do you believe the car happened by accident? Who created creation?" Either "I don't have a car." or "Yes, I believe the car happened by accident." would suffice. At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. "No, I'm not a good person. Take that as a warning." The other approach is to catch them way off guard, but this takes some prep work: "I'll answer you're questions after you answer mine. Do you believe donkey's can talk? Do you believe serpents can talk? Do you believe pigs commit suicide? Do you believe god answers requests to have a she bear shred children to bits in retaliation for calling you 'baldie'? Has god ever asked anyone to do something immoral? ...follow up with... Has god ever asked someone to sacrifice their own child?" ...no, I haven't been thinking about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Think I wiped this off my shorts after the last donkey molesting... Err, umm, yeah, what fun, the little shits go about trying to *fix* me via their cute little stories. Hand me a rag will ya? This stuff is trying to dry on me.. kL >edit: the BANANNNNANNANANANER VID! OH I GOT A 'NANNER NOW!!!!" < Dude. Kev.... Whatever it is you are smoking.... Share it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 At minute 15:00, a new line of questioning starts. "Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?... So Chris, by your own admission you are a lying, theiving, adulterous sinner at heart, and you will have to face God on judgement day." I am curious how people on this forum would reply to that line of questioning. This is just the most retarded non-sequiter ever....how does one make the leap from "I have told a lie" to " there is a god who will punish me for eternity for telling said lie" it is totall non-sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tigg13 Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 What's wrong with being a lying, thieving adulterer? Some of our best presidents were lying, thieving adulterers! "Do cars happen by accident, or are they created?" Gee, I don't know - why don't you create one for me, then we'll both know. How about a nice Buick convertable - those are nice. I'll bet they interviewed over 200 hundred people and then wound up using some xian actor to play the "Atheist". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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