GOD'S INERRANT, HOLY WORD, AND RELIGION??

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1.  The 10 commandments were reportedly given to the human Moses by God.  There were no witnesses other than Moses.  And the Old Testament is a collection of "books" written by different humans and "canonized" by humans.

3.  The New Testament is a collection of notes and letters from humans written after Jesus reportedly left the earth.  There are no original writings, the authorship of some is questioned, and some appear to have been modified.  

4.  Then there was argument over which writings should be canonized (by a group of humans) at least 200 years after the time of Jesus.  The Old Testament was attached to the new (by humans) and the Christian Bible was formed about 400 AD.

5.  People were imprisioned and killed for not agreeing with the human organization that did the canonizing.

6.  No one has seen God and we only have human reports that God, in one form or another, appeared to one human at a time and delivered a message.  God never appeared to a whole group at one time to let it be known what he wants of us, so there were no groups to verify "his" message.  And since God never appeared to any human in person, it was ASSUMED that what the person saw and heard was from God.  How do we know they were not halicunating?  How do we KNOW it even happened??  And why did the Bible come to us bits and pieces at a time through the ages?  

7.  There are 4 gospels written by humans (with different content) in the New Testament, and 2 conflicting versions of creation in the Old Testament.  Wouldn't God want one story in the Bible so there would be no confusion about what happened?

8.  Is the New Testament also "inspired" by God?  It had not been compiled by humans when II Timothy was written, which says all scripture is inspired by God.  And what does inspired by God mean?  If God was telling them what to write, why are there different styles of writing and why have 4 different people write 4 different gospels, and 2 accounts of the creation?   Or were they just mentally "inspired" to write like people are today?  And humans determined which writings were "inspired".  And all religions have "holy scripture", so is all scripture in the different religions from God??

 

Also consider that it was terribly inconsistent of God to tell people in the 10 commandents to not steal or kill, and then tell his "chosen" tribe to slaughter the males of his less favored people in Canaan, and steal their land, wives and daughters.  And if he is perfect, fair and consistent, why stop the centuries of carnage (if you don't know what I mean, read the Old Testament) and then later have Jesus tell people to turn the other cheek, return good for evil, and love and forgive each other?  And then late in the game introduce an afterlife??

 

After 30 years of trying to find the logic in all this, I gave up.  After a study of how we got the Bible, and the history of all religions, I decided it was more logical that humans not only fabricated the "Bible", but also fabricated ALL religions.  And that sly humans have set themselves up as authoritarian religious "leaders" through the ages, many making themselves religious "police, judges and executioners", in an effort to subdue and control the masses (and in many cases line their own pockets) through fear.  

 

It appears to me that the Christian Bible came to be God's Holy, inerrant word ---- BECAUSE HUMANS SAID SO.   

And humans in other religions also believe their religion is the true religion.  So, unless you have studied the big picture of all of them, how do you know if any are true??

 

 

[sdelsolray]

The evidence plausibly points to a tentative conclusion that humans create and maintain their gods, scriptures, and related rituals, traditions and apologetics.

[Joshpantera]

10 hours ago, Weezer said:

After 30 years of trying to find the logic in all this, I gave up.  After a study of how we got the Bible, and the history of all religions, I decided it was more logical that humans not only fabricated the "Bible", but also fabricated all religions.  And that sly humans have set themselves up as authoritarian religious "leaders" through the ages (many making themselves "police" and "judges") in an effort to subdue and control the masses (and in many cases line their own pockets) through fear.  

 

What gets me the most about these facts is that it's the masses, the people themselves who allow this fraud to continue!

 

How about the people who readily admit that the bible isn't inerrant but still insist that it's somehow true and christianity still somehow superior? It's just the next wave of pandering to the same problem. I was arguing with a guy who has recently converted to eastern orthodox. Under the guise that it's somehow superior to fundamentalism and full of truth.

 

That's absolutely wrong: Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia

 

Eastern Orthodox theology is based on holy tradition, which incorporates the dogmatic decrees of the seven ecumenical councils, the Scriptures, and the teaching of the Church Fathers. The church teaches that it is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church established by Jesus Christ in his Great Commission,^[20] and that its bishops are the successors of Christ's apostles.^[21] It maintains that it practices the original Christian faith, as passed down by holy tradition. Its patriarchates, reminiscent of the pentarchy, and other autocephalous and autonomous churches, reflect a variety of hierarchical organisation. It recognizes seven major sacraments, of which the Eucharist is the principal one, celebrated liturgically in synaxis. The church teaches that through consecration invoked by a priest, the sacrificial bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. The Virgin Mary is venerated in the Eastern Orthodox Church as the God-bearer, honored in devotions.

 

 

There's not a shred of evidence for any of this. Not the existence of one fixed jesus as portrayed in the gospels. Not for the disciples, virgin mary, or any of it! This does not escape the charges of literalism, to be very precise. You have to take all of this literally. This is not in any way a sophisticated philosophical position akin to Advaita Vedanta, for instance. But that's what these pee brains are trying to claim in certain philosophical communities. They are trying to integrate into and essentially usurp idealist philosophy in social media groups. 

 

And we've seen them starting to show up here in waves now too. 

 

So, I've been kicking asses around and forcing them to answer hard questions. The most important one being that if god is consciousness and everything is consciousness, then everything is god. If everything is god / consciousness, then all religions are gods religions. All crime is gods crime, while we're going there. And there's no distinction between what it god and what is not god. So the story of jesus is extremely mundane. It can't be interpreted as special to one man. And the virgin mary BS is just as stupid from the perspective of idealist philosophy. 

 

This is what's happening now. Liberal apologists are trying to usurp the contemporary new age and modern spiritual and philosophical trends currently circulating. And what it amounts to is more of the same! Cheerleading for corrupt religious institutions with the same said leaders at their head. And trying to take in anyone who doesn't know better. 

[walterpthefirst]

What gets me the most about these facts is that it's the masses, the people themselves who allow this fraud to continue!

 

 

I don't see why you're getting so upset, Josh.  Weezer has already covered why many people do this.  Here... https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/86092-im-never-wrong/#comment-1248017

 

And one very powerful emotion involved is fear.   If you were motivated by fear from an early age, and really believe you will burn in Hell for eternity for questioning the "authority", you close your mind to new information.

 

 

Death is the great leveller and what better way to comfort yourself against the certain knowledge of your non-existence, than to believe the comforting lie of eternal life?

 

Or, if it's eternal suffering your fear more than nonexistence, what better way to comfort yourself against it, than to believe the comforting lie of eternal bliss?

 

Or, if the apparent meaninglessness of the universe is what you fear, what better way to comfort yourself against it, than to believe the comforting lie of a divine purpose?

 

Or, if the knowledge of your immorality is too much for you, what better way to comfort yourself than to believe the comforting lie that you will be purified and made clean?

 

Or, if the possibility that unbelievers will go unpunished is unbearable to you, what better way to comfort yourself than to believe the comforting lie of judgment?

 

 

Any way you cut this Josh, most people will always prefer to believe what makes them happy over what is true.  It just so happens that we are not most people.  We are the oddballs, the outliers and the ones that buck the trend.  We prefer truth over comfort.

 

And that is why we are so dangerous to the emotional wellbeing of the religious people who come here.  That is why they cannot tolerate us and what we stand for.  That is why they insult, disparage and condemn us.  That is why they threaten and bully us.  That is why they invoke hellfire and eternal damnation to punish us.  

 

Because they fear us.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

Oh yes!  I forgot one of the most powerful comforting lies that many people tell themselves.

 

That they 'know' that will see their loved ones again.

 

Please note that I'm not saying they won't.  Nor, do I think that any agnostic, atheist or sceptic in this forum is actually saying that.  Perhaps the most honest answer to that question we can give is, 'I don't know'.

 

That they do know is perhaps the most understandable comforting lie people tell themselves.  It's a very human thing to do and in my humble opinion, nobody should be condemned for it.

 

But as I said before, we are the oddballs because we prize truth over comfort.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:32 AM, walterpthefirst said:

 

But as I said before, we are the oddballs because we prize truth over comfort.

 

    I noticed years ago that I was praying to find truth, while others were praying for more faith in what they already believed.  You tend to find what you look for.

[Sexton Blake]

2Timothy 3: 16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

However, that quote is from one of the late fake books:

 

2 Timothy is one of the three epistles known collectively as the pastorals (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus). They were not included in Marcion's canon of ten epistles assembled c. 140 CE. Against Wallace, there is no certain quotation of these epistles before Irenaeus c. 170 CE.

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2timothy.html

 

.

[walterpthefirst]

54 minutes ago, Sexton Blake said:

2Timothy 3: 16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

However, that quote is from one of the late fake books:

 

2 Timothy is one of the three epistles known collectively as the pastorals (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus). They were not included in Marcion's canon of ten epistles assembled c. 140 CE. Against Wallace, there is no certain quotation of these epistles before Irenaeus c. 170 CE.

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2timothy.html

 

.

 

I take your point, SB.

 

However, the Christian apologists we deal with here are unlikely to accept that any part of the bible is fake.

 

RKI was taking the line that he could use scripture as a stick to beat us with.

 

But my approach shows that scripture applies just as much to him as it does to us.

 

So, when he lied to me and about me, I showed him that scripture condemns and rebukes him too.

 

Hence my use of the Timothy quote.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Doesn't scripture mean sacred text?  And don't all religions have sacred text?  So the scripture of all religions were given by inspiration of god??  And in every case it was a human, or humans who declared what was sacred.  Sounds like a HUGE leap of faith here.