All Will Be Saved

[jasonwhatever]

While it is commonly taught in Christian circles that if a person does not receive Christ in this life, they will burn forever in hell, this certainly is not true according to The Word of God and many "apocryphal" works that in the early Church were considered to be Scripture.

 

It is far better to receive Christ in this world that one does not have to die and go down to the place where souls, through pain of fire, are cleansed and purified. However, even they will be forgiven. For "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Christ "gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." Enoch and The Shepherd of Hermas, which were both very honored and respected even as Scripture in the early Church, teach that those who die without receiving Christ in this world will be saved. God truly is merciful...He truly did not create His creatures to perish forever.

 

However, those who receive Christ in this world and then lose The Holy Spirit will perish forever in the fires of hell, the second death, for they have willfully sinned and, in God's Eyes, betrayed The Lord.

 

People ask what the purpose of this world is; the answer is actually simple. It is here to bring in the fulness of The Church, as Jesus Christ said to His Apostles "You are the salt of the earth." Because of this Church age, God receiving to Himself a Bride, this world continues, for the fulness has not yet come in. The world is a harvest field, and God is actively harvesting souls, each person in his order: first Christ Who was the first risen from the dead and the first fruit unto God, then the Church which are His first fruits, then those who sleep without having received The Lord shall be saved but they will be lower and without high honor in The Kingdom. As Jesus Christ Said that He has another flock, and He will bring that flock and join it with the former flock, and the flock shall be one. And no one shall be saved without The Sacrifice of Christ when He died on The Cross.

 

However, those who reject The Lord knowingly after having been sealed with His Spirit are in danger of eternal death. This is my state.

[Guest Emerson]

Sometimes I just wonder why if you're so convinced that God and Jesus Christ are the way you come here at all. Why? To preach, to have your convictions confirmed? Or to just drive us all crazy with paranoia.

 

Well Jason perhaps you are right, maybe you want to be right and be rejected by the Holy Spirit and be sent to hell for all damnation. Yes you're right, you are damned to hell for all eternity burning and burning and burning.

 

Jason, whatever!

[dibby]

Jason, your state is confusion. And thats ok, thats where you are.....for now. It won,t stay that way. You will work through your issues....we,ve all been there. You are not damned to hell, thats just someones opinion which you,ve accepted. I guess you are getting a bit suspicious that you,ve been duped though, coz you come on here. All the best mate

[Taphophilia]

Jason,

 

Here is a good place to start. Read this link:

 

Christian Origins

 

Taph

[jbthree]

While it is commonly taught in Christian circles that if a person does not receive Christ in this life, they will burn forever in hell, this certainly is not true according to The Word of God and many "apocryphal" works that in the early Church were considered to be Scripture.

 

It is far better to receive Christ in this world that one does not have to die and go down to the place where souls, through pain of fire, are cleansed and purified. However, even they will be forgiven. For "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

 

Christ "gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." Enoch and The Shepherd of Hermas, which were both very honored and respected even as Scripture in the early Church, teach that those who die without receiving Christ in this world will be saved. God truly is merciful...He truly did not create His creatures to perish forever.

 

[JB] Imagine witnessing to someone who asks you how long he would go through the fires of cleansing and purifying, not having accepted Christ during his natural life. What answer will you give him? 10 years? 100? 1,000? 50,000? 10,000,000? 1,000,000,000? Then imagine that this person thinks he's more righteous than his friends and probably wouldn't spend that long in the fires. Rather than give up his life of worldliness, sex and pleasure, he decides to take his chances on a limited stay in hell and rejects Christ. This is how the unsaved think. But there's another problem. God has foreordained the blood of Christ for the "cleansing and purifying" of sin. How is it you say that fire does that?

 

Peace

[jasonwhatever]

God has foreordained the blood of Christ for the "cleansing and purifying" of sin. How is it you say that fire does that?

 

Because it is through the blood of Christ that the spiritual power has effect to cleanse. After the unsaved pay the penalty for their own sins, they then receive The Holy Spirit that gathers them into The Kingdom of God. "Except a man be born again, he cannot see The Kingdom of God." And "The Spirit quickeneth."

 

I'm not sure about this theory......if this is not the case, then the case is that the fires punish for a time to humble the person and bring them into the fear of God. Then repentance comes and thus the receiving of The Holy Spirit and pardon of sins through The Blood of Christ.

 

But, the unsaved will be saved, even if they die without Christ.

[Asimov]

Wow, I'm amazed at how little I care about your theological admissions.

[Guest Agent Ytnok]

While it is commonly taught in Christian circles that if a person does not receive Christ in this life, they will burn forever in hell, this certainly is not true according to The Word of God and many "apocryphal" works that in the early Church were considered to be Scripture.

 

It is far better to receive Christ in this world that one does not have to die and go down to the place where souls, through pain of fire, are cleansed and purified. However, even they will be forgiven. For "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Christ "gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." Enoch and The Shepherd of Hermas, which were both very honored and respected even as Scripture in the early Church, teach that those who die without receiving Christ in this world will be saved. God truly is merciful...He truly did not create His creatures to perish forever.

 

However, those who receive Christ in this world and then lose The Holy Spirit will perish forever in the fires of hell, the second death, for they have willfully sinned and, in God's Eyes, betrayed The Lord.

 

People ask what the purpose of this world is; the answer is actually simple. It is here to bring in the fulness of The Church, as Jesus Christ said to His Apostles "You are the salt of the earth." Because of this Church age, God receiving to Himself a Bride, this world continues, for the fulness has not yet come in. The world is a harvest field, and God is actively harvesting souls, each person in his order: first Christ Who was the first risen from the dead and the first fruit unto God, then the Church which are His first fruits, then those who sleep without having received The Lord shall be saved but they will be lower and without high honor in The Kingdom. As Jesus Christ Said that He has another flock, and He will bring that flock and join it with the former flock, and the flock shall be one. And no one shall be saved without The Sacrifice of Christ when He died on The Cross.

 

However, those who reject The Lord knowingly after having been sealed with His Spirit are in danger of eternal death. This is my state.

 

Wow. Your god is an asshole. So, if I have this right, I should worship and follow Him because He will send me to "perish forever in the fires of hell, the second death" if I don't? And you really think this a good reason to worhsip this creature? I say that if such a creature exists we get together and figure out how to stop it from fukin' with us.

[Godless Wonder]

What evidence do you have that any of your ridiculous claims are true?

 

BTW, some recent translation into English of some 1000 year old books written by ignorant primitives does not count as evidence. The Bible is the claim, it cannot be evidence supporting itself.

 

I know enough about neuroscience to know that the entire concept of any "afterlife," amounts to nothing more than the ignorant wishes and rantings of the ignorant. If you believe in the afterlife, you are a child, an ignoramus, but most likely, an idiot.

 

Won't you come with me and kiss Hank's ass? It's far better than what you propose, in your stupidity.

[Guest Emerson]

I wish I could sometimes get into your head to see what you're thinking Jason. Because I feel sorry for you and that you think you're "not chosen" and that you're "going to hell." What a sad way to live. Religion can be a bad mind game.

 

I think that if there's a god, a loving god in the world then he/she/it would understand the human condition and have compassion and understanding and most of all forgiveness, and I would hope that god would also have forgiveness towards all of mankind.

 

Seeing the way how you worry constantly about being damned and live your life, just confirms that I don't want to have anything to do with the xtian god. I'm sorry that the god you serve is limited in his thinking, seeing how you worry about knowing him, worshiping him and your salvation and yet rejects you. Funny, you'd think that your god would embrace someone like you. How sad and what a waste.

 

I don't know Jason, I still think you should go to counseling be it a xtian or secular counselor, it just seems that you really need to get some help. I don't think you're necessarily crazy, none of us can make that statement because we don't know you and see you in "real life" but I think it would help talking to someone about these fears and working through them.

 

We're very limited here as it is a forum on the internet and we're not professionals. Other people are better at handling these types of things than us. I hope you get the help that you need and whatever you decide, I hope that you find peace in your decision. Do take care of yourself.

[futurekid]

While I'm halfway with Asimov on this Jason, I did run across this interesting book in the bookstore recently. If you're set on believing, I'd recommend finding a belief system that doesn't damn you to living in horror this life, and in hell the next

[Dark Helmet]

Ahem

 

[mwc]

People ask what the purpose of this world is; the answer is actually simple. It is here to bring in the fulness of The Church, as Jesus Christ said to His Apostles "You are the salt of the earth." Because of this Church age, God receiving to Himself a Bride, this world continues, for the fulness has not yet come in. The world is a harvest field, and God is actively harvesting souls, each person in his order: first Christ Who was the first risen from the dead and the first fruit unto God, then the Church which are His first fruits, then those who sleep without having received The Lord shall be saved but they will be lower and without high honor in The Kingdom. As Jesus Christ Said that He has another flock, and He will bring that flock and join it with the former flock, and the flock shall be one. And no one shall be saved without The Sacrifice of Christ when He died on The Cross.

What is the "fulness of The Church?" (and why the arbitrary CAPS...they're just words and not proper nouns or anything).

 

Who told you it was the "church age?" The church? Which one?

 

I don't really care to be called anyone's "bride."

 

So xians get prefered seating in heaven? That seems fair. Better go with them. Of course the Jews think they're in line for those seats so there might be a bit of a problem.

 

If all it takes is the death on the cross then you're screwed (or not) since that never happened. If we go along with the story though, then the sacrifice occured. Debt paid. All done. Jesus spoke of no ongoing "renewal" system to the best of my recollection. If those who were supposedly followers of jesus decided that there was some sort of ongoing renewal process that's not my, or your, fault now is it? Read the gospels. If jesus said something then take that as what god wanted since, after all, he had an eternity to prepare his words and I imagine that he said all he wanted to say.

 

However, those who reject The Lord knowingly after having been sealed with His Spirit are in danger of eternal death. This is my state.

I, like a lot of others, have read quite a bit of what you've written since you've came to this site. Just like them I'm wondering what you're purpose here is? Are you just screwing around with us? Are you seriously having the troubles you say you are? What is it that you are looking for? If you're serious I don't want you to leave and get no help (unless you seek out someone more qualified...which wouldn't be too hard I imagine ) but it would be nice to know exactly what you're suffering from? You have tons of obvious anxiety and guilt but I don't know why (if you said it elsewhere I must have missed it so just point me to that post).

 

It also doesn't look like you've reject god at all. To me it looks like you've rejected jesus (although your habitual use of CAPS shows otherwise). So let's say you quit jesus and kept the xian (and Jewish) god. Wasn't that the point all along? Wasn't jesus to bring people to god and not himself? Then what's the problem? Screw jesus (and his dad IMHO). They're monsters.

 

Do your loved ones come to you with a gun and say "Love me or die?" and you choose to love them to avoid death? There's no way that will ever be true love even if after years of this treatment you actually convince yourself it is. No, you love those around you because they don't do things like this. Because they accept you even if you don't accept them (it happens...they, mainly parents, may not like you much but they'll sure love you). Can this be said about your god? You've answered this loud and clear in your messages. The answer is "no." No matter how much you might "love" him it's obvious god's love is conditional (and since he claims it is not then he's a liar as well). Sadly I believe that you do think that your family or friends love is just as conditional as your gods love is (if this is the case try to see a good counselor since this isn't about religion at all).

 

mwc

[chefranden]

Dear Mr. Whatever,

 

If God were real, and if I were god, I would throw you into the lowest pit of hell where Satan is fozen in a lake up to his waist just so as I wouldn't have to listen to your whining. By Satan's fozen nuts, you had your chance, you blew it. When you are burned into non-existence you won't give a fuck one way or another. Your suffering will be over. Meanwhile eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you die.

 

Since you are into reading heretical books, you may as well just get a different God. It don't matter which. The Great God Eeyore would be a perfect match for you.

 

Peace to you and yours in this life, the only life there is,

Randen

[Taphophilia]

Jason,

 

I agree with Chef here. Are you trying to convince us with your preaching or yourself?

 

Are you even aware of how the Bible came into existance?

 

The words you spout and believe as the inerrant "Word of the Lord" have been copied and recopied for centuries before they even became the Bible, until there is so little left of what was once the original texts, which have been lost to history, that no one is sure what they said or what was changed and added later.

 

If God could not preserve His Word to match the original texts, what makes you think that the gross misrepresentation of them that we are left with is God's word?

 

Taph

[deepblue]

Jason, welcome to the club (that makes two so far, if you've really done it).

 

Unfortunately the idea that the fires of hell go out cannot be supported by your Bible.

 

Sorry, mate, but 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years from now you will still be burning.

 

Is it really true? Well, I doubt it. If it is, what would that make God?

 

 

Jon.

www.antichurch.org.uk

[Ouroboros]

God has foreordained the blood of Christ for the "cleansing and purifying" of sin. How is it you say that fire does that?

Some questions for you Jason. I hope you have some time to think about them.

 

How can fire exist, when the universe is supposed to have been destroyed? Will God somehow take our rotten corpses and transfer them into hyperspace to another dimension, to a universe similar like ours but he have created a huge place of fire (with some new or same physical laws as here) and put us there? Will the fire in gehenna be of same physical properties and behavior as fire in our world? If it is, won't the matter be disintegrated to ash? And we'll die in a minute or so? Oh, the problem is that we're alredy dead, so we can't die again, but we're going to have bodies still... It's all very confusing. Do we breathe air? Do we get thirsty? If we get thirsty, does it mean we need water, then if so, for what? To survive? Oh yeah, problem back again, we're already dead. So we don't need water then. Why then would we get thirsty? Is it because God puts the thirst-cravings in this new/super-dimension body? So he intenationally would facilitate the components for torture of us, which sounds like a vicious God to me. That means evil doesn't exist because it is something outside God, but God is actively part of giving/doing evil (which is Biblical by the way).

[insomniac]

the problem, jason, is that xians dont have a single doctrinal stance on these things...its completely arbitrary when trying to decode jesus. Sure you can find theologians who say one thing or the other, but it boils down to opinion which is speculation built on a house of cards.

[LosingMyReligion]

Reading Jason's post I wondered how I could EVER have believed in Bible God.

 

I equate Bible God's cruelty and insanity with that of an abusive parent.

 

He takes out all of his rage on his "children" just for being "children."

 

Is there a cosmic CPS that can take us away from him? What is their number?

 

Anyway, Jason, I believe you are trying to convince yourself moreso than us. Just keep chatting her and opening your mind up to the possibility that maybe the Christian religion isn't the absolute and inerrant truth.

[jasonwhatever]

Frank:

 

Just what did you do that makes you think that you committed the unpardonable sin? Did you say something, was it sexual sins, etc? Be honest, please. For me, it was when I said "Oh my God!" partly out of disrespect because I felt I was being pulled one way by The Lord and another by how I wanted to live. As I said it, it's like time stood still for a moment before I said "God," and it's as if a force inside (a voice) was trying to say "don't do that." But I did it anyway.

 

I got up that evening to go to work, and I noticed that I felt "flat." It was as if there was only half a spirit left in me....for weeks afterwards I seriously thought I was going to be dead any day. I called someone and I told them that I thought that my spirit was leaving my body. The spiritual energy was just very very weak. When I had The Holy Spirit, I used to be able to feel Him as an energy in my hands, on my head, on my body. I felt suddenly extremely empty.

 

Well, if you also are in the same boat, that's a relief to me. At least I'm not the only one, and the fact that that happened to you over a year ago and you're still alive is encouraging. I will admit that I wasn't being the best Christian by any means up to this point: I was starting to have sex with men just a couple years prior, although the two years before this I hadn't had any. But, I was still looking at porn online, talking on gay chat rooms. (And honestly, I was even doing that at 19 when I had my radical conversion experience, even more than recently.) God sees the heart, and I will admit that there were times where I thought "I wish I had never been saved" so that I could live my life like the rest of the world. I don't mean to insult God...I do know that He's infinitely Holy and Worthy and Glorious, but there are a lot of people in this world who would have been better choices for God to pick. I was destined for failure as a Christian from the start. Also, I started out so intense that there was no way that I was going to be able to maintain that intensity into old age. I was destined to burn out.

 

At least if I'm going to be burn forever in hell, maybe at least God would let me live my life out in this world.

 

Well, maybe I will see you in hell, Frank. Or hear you screaming along with me forever, since God doesn't believe in rehabilitation.

[deepblue]

Frank:

 

Just what did you do that makes you think that you committed the unpardonable sin? Did you say something, was it sexual sins, etc? Be honest, please. For me, it was when I said "Oh my God!" partly out of disrespect because I felt I was being pulled one way by The Lord and another by how I wanted to live. As I said it, it's like time stood still for a moment before I said "God," and it's as if a force inside (a voice) was trying to say "don't do that." But I did it anyway.

 

I got up that evening to go to work, and I noticed that I felt "flat." It was as if there was only half a spirit left in me....for weeks afterwards I seriously thought I was going to be dead any day. I called someone and I told them that I thought that my spirit was leaving my body. The spiritual energy was just very very weak. When I had The Holy Spirit, I used to be able to feel Him as an energy in my hands, on my head, on my body. I felt suddenly extremely empty.

 

 

 

From what you said, it doesn't sound like you reached the point I did, but I could be wrong. For me, it was an internal breakdown - a "physical" thing. Afterwards I felt like my brain matter had "drained out" leaving nothing there. I smelt death. The first couple of weeks were painful but things gradually improved. I had sexual problems and this is what eventually caused the breakdown. Now I feel like all that happened was in my "past life", to which there is no return. For a long time I felt very empty. I still do, but it's not as bad as it was.

 

For you, it sounds like more like an unpleasant feeling rather than a breakdown. Is this right?

[jasonwhatever]

Frank:

 

It was very much a breakdown for me. I felt extremely empty...like part of me just died. I felt like I was just a shell. I actually thought that my soul was slipping out of my body, and that I was about to die. Your situation sounds actually very similar to mine, except I didn't smell death. My head swirreled with like some kind of mania or something.....it was a major breakdown.

 

Do you think that that emptiness that was inside you was because The Holy Spirit leftyou? That's what happened to me. That's why I felt empty. I don't feel as empty anymore; I'm getting used to feeling this way. I lost my job...I just simply could not work because of the stress and feeling of doom. I felt damned to the lowest hell. Please respond back, I'm curious.

 

When you say that you had sexual problems, are you talking about that you were having sex and thus sinning and this caused the resisting The Spirit? This happened to me. I also was resisting The Spirit....I was just tired of all the obligations of having to pray all the time, fast, etc.

 

Or are you saying that you were unable to perform sexually, and this led to your breakdown? After my breakdown, I went dysfunctional: I had no appetite for over a week, I lost weight, I had no sex drive at all, couldn't get an erection at all, could not sleep, was in a panic constantly.

[willybilly30]

jason where is hell? do you know were it is? can you prove it exists

were is god? can you tell me were he is?

with all the religions in the world what makes you so sure you got the right one?

your driving yourself nuts over something you cant even prove. ask god to come over and visit you and tell you the bible is from him. i bet he wont.

[jasonwhatever]

Frank:

 

When you say that it felt to you that your brain matter drained out, I can kind of see how what you felt was the same as mine. But, with me, I interpreted it as that The Holy Spirit left me. I felt detached from myself or something. It's strange. If you ever want to exchange emails or chat on the phone, let me know; I'd be glad to. I can see how you could call it as feeling like a breakdown of consciousness.

[willybilly30]

avoiding the hard questions? typical christian responce.