◊ Weezer ◊ Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 Also, thinking about who wrote what, or who said what, and which message has priority, another thought comes to mind. When our president wants to speak to the whole nation with an important message, he gets on national media so everyone can hear him at the same time. If God is omnipotent and can part the Red Sea, or anything he wants to do, why has he given his important messages to one male (very interesting) at a time? Moses. Jesus. Paul. Peter. John. Etc, Etc. And if you are Muslim or Mormon, he again speaks to only one person at a time. And I guess he didn't speak to anyone in the East. Or Australia. I guess other gods spoke there?? In ancient times it might have been a little more difficult to speak to everyone at once. But today all he would have to do is over-ride the signals going out to mass media, and tell much of the whole world, at the same time, exactly what his holy word is. It could stop the squabbles about different religions, between denominations, and the cherry picking that goes on. If he truely loves us, and wants us to stop the fighting and killing each other, and all of us to come live with him for eternity, Why doesn't he pull off one more miracle?? The conclusion I come to?? If there is a "god", it is not the Abrahamic God. That God, and the word of that God, comes out of the minds of men, and if you had been born in India and had your mind conditioned there, and never studied the history of religions in an honest effort to find the true religion, you would likely be following Krishna. We tend to find what we want to find, and what we have been conditioned to look for. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 13 hours ago, Weezer said: In ancient times it might have been a little more difficult to speak to everyone at once. But today all he would have to do is over-ride the signals going out to mass media, and tell much of the whole world, at the same time, exactly what his holy word is. It could stop the squabbles about different religions, between denominations, and the cherry picking that goes on. If he truely loves us, and wants us to stop the fighting and killing each other, and all of us to come live with him for eternity, Why doesn't he pull off one more miracle?? I would actually question a god that has to speak through any sort of media. It seems like an actual god might be able to tap into our minds and speak to all of us, in our own language (or some "universal" language), all at once. So no matter where you are on Earth you'd get the message at the same time (and if you're asleep you'd get woken up so as not to think it was just some dream). We'd all get to compare and contrast the message, and I imagine there might be some differences due to recollection and translation, but that could be overcome by a true god by making the message a rather deeply implanted one, something like a memorized message, as opposed to a one-off speech we all heard and struggle to recall. Finally, I would say that embedding this message into newborns, would be the the way to carry it on so it doesn't corrupt over generations. This way, once these kids start speaking the message is already there inside them in whatever language(s) they ultimately talk (a god would know). So we'd all have the same message, given at the same time (or given at birth), in an on-going fashion. But, of course, this does away with things like "faith" where we are forced to imagine all the details of who and what gods are and what they want. For instance, the very idea that gods want faith. mwc 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, mwc said: I would actually question a god that has to speak through any sort of media. It seems like an actual god might be able to tap into our minds and speak to all of us, in our own language (or some "universal" language), all at once. So no matter where you are on Earth you'd get the message at the same time (and if you're asleep you'd get woken up so as not to think it was just some dream). We'd all get to compare and contrast the message, and I imagine there might be some differences due to recollection and translation, but that could be overcome by a true god by making the message a rather deeply implanted one, something like a memorized message, as opposed to a one-off speech we all heard and struggle to recall. Finally, I would say that embedding this message into newborns, would be the the way to carry it on so it doesn't corrupt over generations. This way, once these kids start speaking the message is already there inside them in whatever language(s) they ultimately talk (a god would know). So we'd all have the same message, given at the same time (or given at birth), in an on-going fashion. But, of course, this does away with things like "faith" where we are forced to imagine all the details of who and what gods are and what they want. For instance, the very idea that gods want faith. mwc Yep, there are many ways a contrived, omnipotent god could have imparted his message more effectively than the way the bible says he did. The longer I am out from under the gigantic hoax, the more inconsistant, illogical, irrational and ridicilous it looks and sounds. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 22 hours ago, Weezer said: And some of what people said he said was not in the earliest writings. And he wasn't declared part of a godhead until 325. And by that time the catholic church had a vested interest in making him part of a god head. Yep the truth is we have no idea what Jesus said really. Just certain repeated themes across the new testament writting that were probably all hearsay. Something very interesting I've been contemplating on lately is the different messages of the Gospels. Bart Ehrman did a podcast on "Did Jesus say he was God?". And in it he covers what is said in the four gospels. If I'm remembering correctly for One Mark doesn't say Jesus was born of a virgin or the narrative ever says he is God. In Mathew he became a God at his resurrection which was common in local mythology. Then in Luke, he becomes God at his Baptism. When God says this is my Son in whom I am well pleased. Today have I begotten thee. Lastly, the theme of the whole book of John doesn't really reflect the same teaching at all of Mark, Luke, or Matthew. But the overall theme is that Jesus was God from the very beginning. All the way back to the beginning of time. And proclaims himself God. It has got me wanting to reread all the gospels separately now that I've been shown some of the differences. As a Christian I believed they all spoke about the same events just from different points of view. I also thought they were written by the people they were accredited to. Most of the apostles were probably illiterate anyway. DB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Weezer said: Yep, there are many ways a contrived, omnipotent god could have imparted his message more effectively than the way the bible says he did. The longer I am out from under the gigantic hoax, the more inconsistant, illogical, irrational and ridicilous it looks and sounds. 4 hours ago, mwc said: So we'd all have the same message, given at the same time (or given at birth), in an on-going fashion. Yep, I'm with Y'all. Any God that can't communicate his message to the people he created. And can't keep those people from at the very least corrupting what was supposed to be his written instruction book, really doesn't sound like a God worthy of worship. Pretty weak IMO. Definitely not the Cosmic Omni God that was taught to us in church. DB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 This thread is exactly what I was talking about Rank. You have given very little substance to your own topic, only to get upset with those that tried to give it substance. You refuse to answer questions or interact preferring to instead insult at the earliest opportunity. Most of the six pages of this thread are off topic pickering. When it could have been a great discussion about a very important issue with Christian theology. Was this just bait? So you could take out your religious frustrations on those you knew would argue against you? Honestly if you aren't taking therapy yet for your religious trauma. You probably should. DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ moxieflux66 ☆ Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 1 hour ago, DarkBishop said: Was this just bait? So you could take out your religious frustrations on those you knew would argue against you? Honestly if you aren't taking therapy yet for your religious trauma. You probably should. Is this something common to the christians who visit here? I mean, Edgar said he was here engaging in banter with his intellectually abusive but deceased father. Is something similar going on with RS? Has he considered this maybe? I'm not saying it's wrong, in fact I applaud Ed for being so forthright about it. As long as he's aware of it, my conclusion is that it's all in good fun! Maybe RS is having fun too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 1 hour ago, moxieflux66 said: Is this something common to the christians who visit here? I mean, Edgar said he was here engaging in banter with his intellectually abusive but deceased father. Is something similar going on with RS? Has he considered this maybe? I'm not saying it's wrong, in fact I applaud Ed for being so forthright about it. As long as he's aware of it, my conclusion is that it's all in good fun! Maybe RS is having fun too? Only Rank can answer this but I think it does have something to do with his confusion and frustration concerning Christianity. Intellectually knowing that it's all a lie while emotionally so attached to it, and his family connections through it, that he can't truly let it go. So he tries to make a compromise. Historically most would agree that there was probably a Jesus that these stories were inspired by. So he is searching, trying to find what the real Jesus taught and live by that. But it's been 2000 years and humans have erased almost everything about the true Jesus. And it will end up being a hopeless endeavor. I guess that is my psycho analysis of it from what I've been able to glean from him. Im not a trained professional. But it makes sense to me. DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 1 hour ago, moxieflux66 said: Is this something common to the christians who visit here? But no it's not common for Christians that come here. Most are here for a few weeks or months trying to convince us that they have solved some contradiction or a other. Try to show us the bible is true because of that. And eventually give up. These traits are only found in these two. And I do think it's something that would be better handled with therapy, than faith to any certain religion or denomination. Neither believe in most of what the Bible says. The biggest difference I see is that Ed has one foot sticking out of the faith. And Rank has one foot sticking in. And I think they are playing footsy. DB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ moxieflux66 ☆ Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 51 minutes ago, DarkBishop said: These traits are only found in these two. And I do think it's something that would be better handled with therapy, than faith to any certain religion or denomination. Neither believe in most of what the Bible says. The biggest difference I see is that Ed has one foot sticking out of the faith. And Rank has one foot sticking in. And I think they are playing footsy. That's very interesting to me. Again, this free-lance xtianity is the most intriguing thing I've seen LATELY. Hard to understand what the point is in being here then.....? I mean, I guess I get why Ed is here but...... Plus, that's pretty funny about the footsy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 Free-range Christians are common as dirt. Most just see no point in talking to atheists and the like. But I have a history here and I like arguing about religion... so you have been blessed with my presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Many years ago everyone believed that the earth was flat. So the commonality of a belief is no guide to its truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ moxieflux66 ☆ Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 hour ago, RankStranger said: Free-range Christians are common as dirt. Most just see no point in talking to atheists and the like. But I have a history here and I like arguing about religion... so you have been blessed with my presence. I see. Guess I've been out of the loop for longer than I thought. Though xtianity hasn't been an issue for me for 4 decades, more or less. The further I get from it, the less xtians I know. The fracturing I saw beginning way back when has most definitely gotten worse since I paid attention. So you like arguing about religion, just like Edgar then? Do you also have a deceased relative you are subconsciously fighting? Do you ever 'win' here? Is there ever a 'draw' or do you just keep carrying on as you've done here? It DOES tend to weaken your stance when you have fits and tantrums and need to have THE LAST WORD! Reminds me of my xtian sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 3 hours ago, moxieflux66 said: I see. Guess I've been out of the loop for longer than I thought. Though xtianity hasn't been an issue for me for 4 decades, more or less. The further I get from it, the less xtians I know. The fracturing I saw beginning way back when has most definitely gotten worse since I paid attention. So you like arguing about religion, just like Edgar then? Do you also have a deceased relative you are subconsciously fighting? Do you ever 'win' here? Is there ever a 'draw' or do you just keep carrying on as you've done here? It DOES tend to weaken your stance when you have fits and tantrums and need to have THE LAST WORD! Reminds me of my xtian sister. No, I've never 'won' here. Not even as an atheist. I thought it would be fun arguing about religion... kinda like the old days. But this place has degenerated further than I realized. I'm used to ban-hammer threats from moderators- that's always been part of the fun. But an X-Christian explaining that he'd happily murder me should I show up at his door? When *I* never even remotely suggested such a situation in the first place? That's just trashy behavior. Feral, trashy behavior. I'll check back with ya'll in a week or four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 28, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 hour ago, RankStranger said: No, I've never 'won' here. Not even as an atheist. I thought it would be fun arguing about religion... kinda like the old days. But this place has degenerated further than I realized. I'm used to ban-hammer threats from moderators- that's always been part of the fun. But an X-Christian explaining that he'd happily murder me should I show up at his door? When *I* never even remotely suggested such a situation in the first place? That's just trashy behavior. Feral, trashy behavior. I'll check back with ya'll in a week or four. You were told to drop that subject. You were warned twice. Instead of doing so, you have now dragged that subject into a different thread in another forum. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated here. Your account has been restricted for 2 weeks as a result. Have a nice day. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ moxieflux66 ☆ Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 I was just about to ask if that was what I was just talking about: the last word. They aaaaaaaaaaaalllllways do that! But it looks like the Professor gets the last word this time. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 17 hours ago, RankStranger said: That's just trashy behavior. Feral, trashy behavior. Seriously, he went there again.... wow, I thought we had turned a corner on the other thread there. DB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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