The Fifth Horse(wo)man of Atheism has found Jesus

[walterpthefirst]

1 minute ago, RankStranger said:

 

 

You're definitely more intelligent than all who came before 

 

It's not a function of intelligence, as you well know, RS.

 

It's a function of living in an age when we have so much evidence against the bible being true that we have to think irrationally to believe that it is.

 

 

 

 

 

[TABA]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:17 PM, RankStranger said:

In my experience, to be a proper secular atheist, one has to essentially cut themselves off from their own cultural heritage.  As an X-Christian, I had disavowed the world view of essentially all my ancestors for a thousand years or so. 

I don’t know if I’m a proper secular atheist or not.  Since you don’t like people deciding who is a real Christian, it’s probably unwise to judge who is a proper non-believer.  
 

I certainly haven’t cut myself off from my cultural heritage because that heritage encompasses far more than devotion to a deity.  I value Western civilization and specifically the Irish subset of it from which I sprang as well as the American variant, in the midst of which I now live.  It has been influenced by Christianity, by Greek and Roman - and later - philosophers, by political and social movements, by the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Enlightenment and more.  
 

Just as each of us is the sum of our experiences, my cultural heritage stretches back 3000 years and reflects all those millennia that have seem some things stay the same, and others change utterly.  None of us endorses the whole package: most now thankfully reject slavery, misogyny, homophobia and other long-standing attitudes.  But discarding some ideas doesn’t by any means mean severing oneself from the past.  Rejecting Christian theology is a significant shift, for sure, but so was the acceptance of monotheism and Christianity by many in the Roman Empire and elsewhere in the first millennium CE.  So was the break with the Roman church by many in the middle of the second.  Likewise the advent of liberal Christianity in more recent times, and the adoption of equal rights for women and the acceptance of same-sex relationships and marriage in the very recent past.  
 

Not all changes in human society are positive ones, but the progress in human well-being in the last millennium especially has been remarkable.  It has generally been accompanied by a continuous decline in the power of religious authorities.  Correlation doesn’t imply causation, but the correlation in this case has been so long lasting as to be compelling.  
 

On 11/27/2023 at 1:17 PM, RankStranger said:

Atheism doesn't exactly require- but typically leads to- a rejection of collective ritual.  Including but not limited to gathering, singing, praying, worship, affirmations of shared values, etc.  All of which are in some form staples of most human societies for most of human history.  Atheism/secularism offers very little to replace these apparently basic human needs.  And IMO these are in fact needs.

I have to agree with this.  Religion certainly provides a collective experience that is hard to find elsewhere.  This is a challenge that I hope will be met in various ways.  
 

On 11/27/2023 at 1:17 PM, RankStranger said:

I find that a lot of people feel this need to be pious, and (more importantly) to display their piety as a form of social status.  Having rejected any shared Christian values... they simply jump to the next best offer.  Wokey-Piety.  Vegan Piety.  Maoist Piety.  All three are damn poor substitutes, and are as crazy as any Pentecostal you'd come across (apologies to any former/current Pentecostals).

I agree with this too.  Gods didn’t create humans, humans created gods.  Human behavior changes little over the centuries, in many respects.  Take away religious dogma and many gravitate toward other quasi-religious world views.  But that’s not a reason to give up.  We can do worse than Christianity, but we can also do better.   In my opinion, not only do the key tenets of Christian dogma fail to survive examination and reason, but there is too much that is objectionable and even evil within it, too much that can gain traction under certain circumstances even in the modern world. 

[Wertbag]

Getting the subject back to Ayaan’s conversion, I've seen the article she wrote about becoming Christian (as I guess many have here, or at least the discussions about it), and in the entire rant she never mentions a belief in Jesus, in God, in the bible, in the resurrection or in fact anything supernatural.  The conclusion of most commentators is that she has embraced cultural Christianity for the political impact it would have.  If her intent is to get people to listen to her message, to speak out against Islam and the extreme left, then doing so while labelled as a Christian will get her a bigger audience.  The announcement itself gained her thousands of viewers who have probably never heard of her before.  Her conversion is a platform building move.

Other famous atheist conversions like J Warner Wallace, use their ex-atheism to pull attention, and I think shes smart enough to be doing the same thing.  It's about getting her message to people who would have never listened to her before, and from what little I've heard from her in the past she seems to have a positive message.  So if this play works for her then good job.

[mwc]

     Who is this person and why should I care?

 

          mwc

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

12 hours ago, mwc said:

     Who is this person and why should I care?

 

          mwc

 

Sorry, but to be honest, I've never heard of her either. But I'm not in 'the loop' anymore either soooo....

[midniterider]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:14 AM, RankStranger said:

Greetings brothers and sisters in Christ.  And Infidels.

 

It's been all over the news lately (or at least all over my own algorithms).  

 

https://www.premierchristianity.com/apologetics/from-islam-to-atheism-to-christianity-the-unlikely-conversion-of-ayaan-hirsi-ali/16741.article

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/longtime-atheist-former-muslim-ayaan-hirsi-ali-reveals-now-christian

 

https://unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-am-now-a-christian/

 

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

She was never a true atheist...just kidding. 

 

Before Islam, atheism, and Christianity: chop wood , carry water.

After Islam, atheism, and Christianity: chop wood, carry water. 

 

edit: It's ok for people to change their minds. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

edit: It's ok for people to change their minds. 

 

 

Yep.  And some call themselves something even though they don't understand what it is.  It just seems right at the time.

[Wertbag]

18 hours ago, mwc said:

Who is this person and why should I care?

Two different questions, who she is is a friend of Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens who appeared on stage with them at various times.  She's written ~30 books (Books by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Author of Infidel) (goodreads.com) mostly on the subject of Islam is bad, women are mistreated and politics.  She is well respected for her anti-Islam views and as a survivor of female genital mutilation.

 

Why should you care?  Shes one of the more famous atheist speakers making the conversion claim and shes getting a lot of news attention due to that.  Whether that interests you is up to you.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

2 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Two different questions, who she is is a friend of Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens who appeared on stage with them at various times.  She's written ~30 books (Books by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Author of Infidel) (goodreads.com) mostly on the subject of Islam is bad, women are mistreated and politics.  She is well respected for her anti-Islam views and as a survivor of female genital mutilation.

 

Why should you care?  Shes one of the more famous atheist speakers making the conversion claim and shes getting a lot of news attention due to that.  Whether that interests you is up to you.

Does this happen a lot?? 

[mwc]

5 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Two different questions, who she is is a friend of Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens who appeared on stage with them at various times.  She's written ~30 books (Books by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Author of Infidel) (goodreads.com) mostly on the subject of Islam is bad, women are mistreated and politics.  She is well respected for her anti-Islam views and as a survivor of female genital mutilation.

 

Why should you care?  Shes one of the more famous atheist speakers making the conversion claim and shes getting a lot of news attention due to that.  Whether that interests you is up to you.

     I appreciate the info.

 

     Since I don't tend to follow any of these folks I can't say I care. 

 

          mwc

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

21 minutes ago, mwc said:

     I appreciate the info.

 

     Since I don't tend to follow any of these folks I can't say I care. 

 

          mwc

 

It's too bad Rank got booted for 2 weeks. He'd probably love to tell you why you should care! 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

2 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

It's too bad Rank got booted for 2 weeks. He'd probably love to tell you why you should care! 

Ooops, sorry. That was an asshole thing to do........

[Wertbag]

10 hours ago, moxieflux66 said:

Does this happen a lot?

No, probably why it gets media attention, it happens so rarely that its noteworthy.  There are certainly Christians and especially apologists who claim to have been atheists, but they are usually the apathetic atheist types, just didn't care and didn't look into it.  To have someone who was on stage as a declared atheist change their mind so publicly is very unusual.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I think we're supposed to care because whenever a christian becomes an atheist, it's a big deal to the other christians; because it triggers that still, small voice in the back of their minds that tells them, "This is all bullshit."  Likely, they assume it would be the same for us when an atheist becomes a christian.  Personally, I had never heard of the woman in question before this thread and still haven't even looked her up.  But if she found something that works for her, then that's enough to make me happy for her.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

20 hours ago, Wertbag said:

mostly on the subject of Islam is bad, women are mistreated and politics.  She is well respected for her anti-Islam views and as a survivor of female genital mutilation.

I guess my question is did she ever educate herself on how all abrahamic religions fail on most fronts when put under scrutiny? Or was she just athiest because of her hatred toward Islam. As you said here. She had anti-islamic views and was mutilated because of the extremist beliefs of Islam. Did she care to find out how Christianity is just as false as Islam? Did she write any books on Christianity? 

 

If not than this may be why she fell into the trap of Christianity. Maybe the belief in Jesus offered her a love she never felt as a Muslim. Her original beliefs harmed her but obviously so.eone convinced her that Jesus loves her and gave his life for her. I can see how emotionally this would be a snare for her. 

 

As far as I know Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet. Just not the savior and messiah. Or atleast that is what I've been told. 

 

So even in her original beliefs Jesus was probably mentioned. If she didn't study into the falsehoods of Christianity some Chritian probably triggered that part of her indoctrination and told her who they believed Jesus really was. And she may have had that intense emotional salvation experience I've spoken of before. That feeling of being brought low then lifted up in your mind cause such a surge of endorphins that it literally feels supernatural. 

 

This is my take on it anyway. I just don't think she did her due diligence to educate herself against Chritianity and its emotional snares. 

 

Dark Bishop

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:35 AM, TABA said:

As far as I can tell, she hasn’t concluded that Christianity is literally true, that she believes Jesus lives and is divine, or any of that.  Quite simply she believes that those who stand for liberal values, for individual freedom etc., cannot prevail without some kind of unifying cultural or tribal banner to rally around, and she has concluded that Christianity fits the bill.   

I thought I remembered seeing someone say perhaps this was a political move on her part to widen her message and audience. I couldn't find that comment if it was indeed made by someone else (and apologize) but this comment is the closest thing I found. TABA, are you saying this? She 'uses' christianity as a general rule to live by? Or something like that? 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:35 AM, TABA said:

Quite simply she believes that those who stand for liberal values, for individual freedom etc., cannot prevail without some kind of unifying cultural or tribal banner to rally around, and she has concluded that Christianity fits the bill.   

Indeed.  Because nothing screams "Unity!" quite like 41,000 different denominations. 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

2 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Indeed.  Because nothing screams "Unity!" quite like 41,000 different denominations. 

Is that all there is?? I thought it was more.....

[mwc]

18 hours ago, moxieflux66 said:

It's too bad Rank got booted for 2 weeks. He'd probably love to tell you why you should care! 

     RS and I go way back on this site.  I'm fine with whatever he cares to think.  It doesn't change my life any.

 

18 hours ago, moxieflux66 said:

Ooops, sorry. That was an asshole thing to do........

     Heh.  If you had gotten here years ago you wouldn't have even thought twice about what you had said.  Don't worry about it.

 

          mwc

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

Just now, mwc said:

     RS and I go way back on this site.  I'm fine with whatever he cares to think.  It doesn't change my life any.

 

     Heh.  If you had gotten here years ago you wouldn't have even thought twice about what you had said.  Don't worry about it.

 

          mwc

 

Thank you! I'm auditioning for Lion Tamer in the Den. 

Or maybe bouncer! 

[mwc]

Just now, moxieflux66 said:

Thank you! I'm auditioning for Lion Tamer in the Den. 

Or maybe bouncer! 

     One thing to keep in mind before you become lion tamer is we, meaning you as well, are the lions.  Those who visit are Daniel and need to miraculously survive the visit.

 

          mwc

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

2 minutes ago, mwc said:

     One thing to keep in mind before you become lion tamer is we, meaning you as well, are the lions.  Those who visit are Daniel and need to miraculously survive the visit.

 

          mwc

 

Ohhhh yeah....So am I the Lioness? Do I get to eat Daniel? 

[mwc]

5 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

Ohhhh yeah....So am I the Lioness? Do I get to eat Daniel? 

     If you really like him.

 

          mwc

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

10 minutes ago, mwc said:

     If you really like him.

 

          mwc

 

I think I'll roast him first

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

In fact, I'll spit roast him. I like my christians slow cooked and basted with garlic butter! Mmmmmmmm!

Imagine the crowds going crazy!