Update: 2024

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Hey Everyone!!!

 

Here in 12 days I will celebrate 7 years deconverted. 

 

And it has been a journey. 

 

I try to post one of these every year around this time. And right now I'm having trouble deciding what all to say. At times it's been hard, very hard. I've lost a lot. And when I say that I'm talking about my marriage. After the initial shock and depression of deconverting and realizing everything I thought I knew was a lie, losing my religion was a blessing. I don't miss the faith. I don't miss the meetings. I abhor the teachings now. But in deconverting from a heavily entrenched faith there is collateral damage. And for me that was my marriage.

 

    I've already talked about this since the divorce but last year we finally separated. Since then she has also questioned her faith and we have both tried to move on but have found it difficult at times to detach. It is easier to move on when you split for cut and dry reasons. Like Adultery or abuse. But when you live together for years and consider each other best friends, and the biggest reason is that you are two different people spiritually. That's hard. As a former believer I could understand all the frustrations she had and the points she made. She went from seeing me study the Bible for hours at a time sometimes. Taking down notes for sermons etc. To seeing me doubt, completely stop believing, and then argue against Christianity. She also saw my drinking increase which was in no small part related to the trauma of divorce, a stressful job, and my own inability to cope well with those. Instead I would drown my emotions so I could just feel numb. During this time of frequent drunkenness I made mistakes. Started arguments. Etc. So the decision to split was made. It probably should of happened sooner. Even our kids have been affected by our toxic relationship.

 

Is there still hope for reconciliation? I think it would take a lot for that to happen but..... I don't know. Maybe. We've both been with other people now but still have love for each other. And I find that odd. I thought that once we had gone that far that those feelings would abate. But it hasn't. Not for either of us. And when you are that close to someone for that long it's like they take a piece of your soul with them when they leave. I've been taking therapy and my relationships are usually the focus of discussion because that is what affects me the most mentally. Part of me wants to continue moving on and the other part wants to hold on. I've often referred to it as the longest and most agonizing goodbye I've ever experienced.

 

 I feel broken. And don't really know if I have the capability to love romantically again. Like most people my age, I wanted to one day meet my one and live the rest of my life with them. I thought that had happened and it got ripped away from me. So yeah, there are issues. Hopefully continued therapy will help me find clarity and resolve either way. I can now admit that my drinking had become a problem. This weight loss surgery got me to stop long enough to accept that. Thankfully it didn't take me waking up in a ditch to figure it out. So I have work to do on me obviously. 

 

If reconciliation were to happen. I think it the best probability of success would have to involve her questioning her faith enough to deconvert. I am almost to the point that I am anti-chrsitian. I see some benefit from it for those that need that higher power to be sober. But other than that I think it is mostly a message of worthlessness. And as long as she is a believer I think that would be hard to mix in together again with a different outcome. Before I just wanted us to accept each others differing views. But after years of trying to do that. I just don't think it's gonna happen. 

 

One thing I've noticed tho. I'm 43 and most everyone dating right now have been through hell in relationships. Me, my ex, the person she's been seeing, the person I'm seeing, others I've talked too. It seems like horrible relationships have abounded. It isn't like when I was growing up. 

 

When I started dating one of the things that kept popping up was people in ENM (ethical non-monogamous) relationships. Now I've mostly been a monogamous person my whole life. But thinking about this prospect and also reflecting on my experiences I've began to wonder if this is possibly more natural for humans if they can get past the jealousy. 

 

I did some Google searching and what the experts are saying is that humans can have successful monogamous marriages/relationships but that we tend to lean polygynys. Reflecting on the people I've know and myself who have been married sometimes multiple times. And having been cheated on. It makes logical sense that we lean that way. If we were like the other animals that mate for life, once we met that one person we would never want anyone else. But that isn't the case. We still get attracted to others, and sometimes we succumb to those attractions. I've seen men with wives that looked like models cheat. It didn't make sense at the time but maybe it does now. 

 

Another thought on that is the old running jokes about how the sex stops after marriage. I've experienced it and I know many others have to. So why is that? My thought now is that maybe that happens not because the other spouse no longer finds you attractive but maybe just being with the same person all the time sexually isn't as natural as we once thought. Who knows, maybe these ENM people are going about it in a better way. The one troubling thing I see is that the ones I've heard of and talked to don't seem to want to use condoms. Male or female. And I just don't think that is a good idea if you plan on having multiple partners, and they are the same, etc. Hello, ever heard of stds?

 

Anyway, enough contemplating the mysteries of humanity. As I've already mentioned I did have weight loss surgery back in December and that has been going well. But the past month has been a shit show. On top of recovering I've had two bouts of gout, caught the flu, now I've got covid, and I got fired while I was on FMLA. Which isn't supposed to happen. But as in everything else. There are loopholes. 

 

Good news tho. I have an interview for another job on Monday. And I feel like I will most likely get the job. So yay!!! After a couple months of shit, things are looking up finally. 

 

Honestly, I needed a different job anyway. That place was such a huge source of stress for me. I hope the next place is better and appreciates their employees more than the last. Not gonna hold my breath though. It's a Chinese company and I've never heard of the Chinese being big on employee appreciation. 

 

You would think with all that happened afterward that I would regret my deconversion. But I don't. I couldn't have stopped it. My brain thinks logically. And when I come across something that doesn't make logical sense to me. I have trouble with it. So when I found what was logical I had to move to that logical conclusion. 

 

And I feel I am on a higher playing field intellectually because of it. It now amazes me that so much of the world are still stuck on their various fairy-tales. I enjoy learning more actual truths about the bible so much. After all those years of confusion and searching for the answers, to finally have them is wonderful. And I'm not just being lead like a sheep. I'm thinking for myself. I'm living for myself. I doing stuff like weight loss surgery and therapy, for myself. I don't know if I would be doing all that if I were still duped by ancient ideologies that prefer prayer to medical science. 

 

I let y'all know awhile back I wasn't in a good headspace to post much. I'm feeling a bit better now and am going to try and start posting more again. I really miss talking to you all. And our back and forth with the Christians even tho there hasn't been much of that lately.  

 

So I guess thats my update. It's been a long ride the past seven years. It would of been nice if it were an easier transition but that isn't in the cards for everyone.

 

Life goes on though.

 

Thankfully I don't think any of my children are going to suffer religious trauma and had I not deconverted that probably wouldn't be the case. And it gives me piece of mind knowing that. A good parent always wants better for their children. 

 

Best Regards,

Dark Bishop

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I hope the new job works out well!

[♦ Fuego ♦]

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

It now amazes me that so much of the world are still stuck on their various fairy-tales. I enjoy learning more actual truths about the bible so much. After all those years of confusion and searching for the answers, to finally have them is wonderful.

 

This, so much. I've been devouring YT videos of Bart Ehrman and a few others and learning so much about actual Bible history and authors and culture, and the early divisions and conflicts in the church. It burns me how the church fosters a simplistic and false view of the Bible, and how easily people fall for it all. I really wonder at the mechanisms behind why people believe in the first place and how willing they/we are to pushing aside anything that might make the magical kingdom fade. 

 

Hang in there. I have no answers about dating. I watch how people approach it these days and am mystified by it. I still think one of the best ways is to get into a social circle of people doing something you like (for me singing and music in general, and dance lessons), and then doing one's best to be attractive physically and otherwise. 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, Fuego said:

 

Hang in there. I have no answers about dating. I watch how people approach it these days and am mystified by it. I still think one of the best ways is to get into a social circle of people doing something you like (for me singing and music in general, and dance lessons), and then doing one's best to be attractive physically and otherwise. 

 

I agree with Fuego.  If you live in or near a larger city, there may be some "humanitarian" or athiest/agnostic groups where you could mix socially.  Recently in Wichita a group called "OASIS" formed for non believers.  And you might look into the Unitarian Universalist church.  And don't let the word "church" turn you off.  They fellowship anyone, and many members are agnostic, and some athiest.  It is mainly a big support group for humanitarians.  At least that is the way I see the one here in Wichita.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 hours ago, Fuego said:

This, so much. I've been devouring YT videos of Bart Ehrman and a few others and learning so much about actual Bible history and authors and culture, and the early divisions and conflicts in the church. It burns me how the church fosters a simplistic and false view of the Bible, and how easily people fall for it all. I really wonder at the mechanisms behind why people believe in the first place and how willing they/we are to pushing aside anything that might make the magical kingdom fade. 

I absolutely love the way Bart Ehrman explains his studies. He really makes sure he breaks it down so it can be understood by everyone. Well.... except believers, if you bring any of that up to them, they will always deny it.

 

Can you imagine how peaceful the world would be without Abrahamic religions? They are such a cancer on the world's various societies that practice them. But it is such a massive problem/non-problem. I say it that way because most the world believes in one form or another. So it's not a problem. Not in their minds anyway. But to us on the outside we can see that everything they are fighting about and for is all myth and legend. People are dying right now because of something that was written thousands of years ago. It is sad. I try to just not think about it because really what can ya do? Not a damn thing. 

 

DB

[TABA]

Greetings brother!

 

Thanks for posting the update, the good and the not so good!   One thing that stands out for me is the sad fact that a couple can have so much that ties them together, friendship, sex, having children together, plain old love, and yet if they don’t see eye to eye on the existence of a bronze-age god of a Middle Eastern tribe, that can ruin everything.  My own wife is still very much a believer, even though she switched from Church of Christ back to the Catholicism she grew up with.  Although she disagrees with my conclusion, she does respect me and my beliefs and I sometimes think she could be open to changing her mind.  But I also sometimes feel that our religious differences could be a ticking time bomb of sorts.   

 

18 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

If reconciliation were to happen. I think it the best probability of success would have to involve her questioning her faith enough to deconvert.

You know her and we don’t, but most Christians simply aren’t capable of deconverting, I’m sorry to say.  Even if they see the problems, the contradictions in the belief system, you have to give yourself permission to deconvert, to endure the disapproval or anger of family and friends, and to give up lifelong beliefs that may be familiar and comfortable, even if they are unsound.  Maybe, just maybe, all the things you’ve shared together, the love, the friendship, the kids, might be enough to get over the hump.  It’s asking a lot, though.  
 

18 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

When I started dating one of the things that kept popping up was people in ENM (ethical non-monogamous) relationships

I have no direct experience of either non-monogamy or even recent dating, but it does seem to be on the rise.  I’m not surprised.  Religion is certainly losing its hold on people and there’s no doubt that the christian insistence on lifelong monogamy within marriage goes against how we as men and women evolved.  Many people are happy to be with one partner for many years, but at an earlier or later stage in life the same people may not be.  I see young christians cause themselves a lot of problems by marrying as soon as they are out of school, before their brains have even finished developing, all to avoid the dreaded sexual sin.  Is it any wonder that pastors etc are so often caught in scandalous affairs.  Maybe if they had allowed themselves to be sexually active in their youth they would not have so many frustrations or feelings of missed opportunities, which leads to so much trouble as men of the cloth when they finally act out on natural desires.  Or they would have admitted that they were not the marrying types.  Sadly christianity doesn’t allow that. 
 

I have to get going this morning, so I’ll leave it here for now.  You know I wish you the very best.  Keep us posted on the job front, but the news is encouraging.  Remind yourself every day why you’re glad to be deconverted.  I’m glad to count you as a friend and glad that you’re part of this community.  
 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I ordered the majority of my wives from online catalogues, so I don't have much dating experience at all.  I can tell you, from personal experience, that if you get a defective one, send it back while it's still under warranty.  If I'd have done that with my ex, it'd have saved me a lot of heartache.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I ordered the majority of my wives from online catalogues, so I don't have much dating experience at all.  I can tell you, from personal experience, that if you get a defective one, send it back while it's still under warranty.  If I'd have done that with my ex, it'd have saved me a lot of heartache.

If ya don't mind, how about sending me URL or the number for the mail order catalogue. Lmao  

 

DB

[TheRedneckProfessor]

11 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

If ya don't mind, how about sending me URL or the number for the mail order catalogue. Lmao  

 

DB

I'll DM it to ya.  I'd also suggest thinking long and hard before paying extra for the "English-speaking upgrade."

[TABA]

10 hours ago, TABA said:

Is it any wonder that pastors etc are so often caught in scandalous affairs.  Maybe if they had allowed themselves to be sexually active in their youth they would not have so many frustrations or feelings of missed opportunities, which leads to so much trouble as men of the cloth when they finally act out on natural desires.

And here we go again.  Unable to have sex with consenting adults without offending God, he molests boys entrusted to his care instead…
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68313792

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, TABA said:

 

 But I also sometimes feel that our religious differences could be a ticking time bomb of sorts.   
 

Not necessarily so.  Some people are willing to live and let live.  The problem comes when people hang everything on a rigid belief, or try in different ways to control the other person.  I was concered about my marriage when deconverting, and discussed it with my wife.  She said she was disappointed in me, but did not marry me simply because of our common religion.  It was, and still is an slight aggravation with her, but she has leaned futher in my direction in the 30 years since.  

 

To achieve the ideal American "marriage", I believe the secret to a long term relationship is to really know the other person, and yourself, and each person having similar expectations in life.    Not just going on what they/you say they are, or want to be.   Past character and temperments, including familes, are usually the best determiners of what will be in the future.

 

Insight, honesty, and a thorough understanding and agreement of future expectations is needed.   And accepting each other as is.   NOT THE FEELINGS AND CRAVINGS FOR HAVING SOMEONE ELSE MAKE YOU WHOLE.   

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 minutes ago, TABA said:

And here we go again.  Unable to have sex with consenting adults without offending God, he molests boys entrusted to his care instead…
 

I hate to burst your balloon, but it is more complicated than just that.  

[TABA]

1 minute ago, Weezer said:

I hate to burst your balloon, but it is more complicated than just that.  

How so?

[TABA]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

Not necessarily so.  Some people are willing to live and let live.  The problem comes when people hang everything on a rigid belief, or try in different ways to control the other person.  I was concered about my marriage when deconverting, and discussed it with my wife.  She said she was disappointed in me, but did not marry me simply because of our common religion.  It was, and still is an slight aggravation with her, but she has leaned futher in my direction in the 30 years since

Thank you, @Weezer!  This is very helpful and encouraging.  I hope to have a similar experience to yours and I do think that early indications are encouraging (I came out to my wife as a non-believer in 2017).  Thank you again for sharing your experience and your wisdom!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

3 hours ago, TABA said:

How so?

Just being able to have sex when he wants to, would not fix the pastor's problem.  I did not read the link DB posted, but assumed the boys were underaged.   That is rape.  Any form of rape is not just for sexual "release".  They could do that through masterbation.   It is regarded as a "control", or perhaps a revenge issue.  A large percent (75%?) of rapist were sexually abused as children.  And a lot of extramarital sex is ego driven.  To be able to seduce someone "proves" (in their own mind) that they "still have it", and helps them get their jolllies.  And in some cases it is due to a person being starved for affection and nurturing.  And in societies where it is a no-no, it can be the "adolescent" challenge and thrill of getting away with something they weren't supposed to do.  There are a lot of motivations for sex in addition to the natural attraction that perpetutes the species, but beware the side issues that can cause problems.  Some simple due to te society you live in.

 

Sex in our society is an extremely complex issue.  But healthy sex does not violate peoples boundries, or create health issues, or unwanted children.  And the children part of it is a whole other issue!