My Christian Girlfriend

[bob]

Again, thanks to all for your input. I have been so busy lately with work that I have had little time to read your thoughts.

 

Another couple points for your consideration:

 

I have always been free to express my thoughts on religion. I have always had an interest in dialogue with the faithful, when I was a christian and after I left. But now, since my lady tends to get defensive, I have to hold back. For instance - she comments on "The Davinci Code" that she is not worried about seeing it and having it affect her faith because she "knows" it is fiction. I have to hold back. I want to ask her what makes her think her bible is not fiction, but I just keep my mouth shut.

 

Another problem is that she is a rabid FOX News fan, registered Republican, and Bush supporter. I am just an easy going guy who thinks Bush is an idiot. She knows I feel that way, but when he says something stupid (which is quite often) and when the parrots on FOX news spout their fanatical faith in him, I keep my mouth shut. Not because it will end our relationship if I do express my opinion, but because she can not defend her beliefs in a controlled and rational manner, and I just don't like seeing her try to. I don't like putting her in that position.

 

So, I have had to learn to keep my thoughts (my reactions) hidden. I do this, not out of fear of losing her, but out of compassion for her. Does that make sense?

[Thackerie]

Another problem is that she is a rabid FOX News fan, registered Republican, and Bush supporter. I am just an easy going guy who thinks Bush is an idiot. She knows I feel that way, but when he says something stupid (which is quite often) and when the parrots on FOX news spout their fanatical faith in him, I keep my mouth shut. Not because it will end our relationship if I do express my opinion, but because she can not defend her beliefs in a controlled and rational manner, and I just don't like seeing her try to. I don't like putting her in that position.

 

Wow! That would be the deal-breaker for me!

[Light_of_Reason]

So, I have had to learn to keep my thoughts (my reactions) hidden. I do this, not out of fear of losing her, but out of compassion for her. Does that make sense?

 

Yes. You have no idea how much sense that makes.

 

There has been many a time that I have done the same. You just have to choose when you think its worth it, and when it isn't.

 

And sometimes, you might find yourself letting those thoughts or reactions out just for the fun of it, though for me that isn't very often, but sometimes you do have to let it out.

[AtheistMommy]

Again, thanks to all for your input. I have been so busy lately with work that I have had little time to read your thoughts.

 

Another couple points for your consideration:

 

I have always been free to express my thoughts on religion. I have always had an interest in dialogue with the faithful, when I was a christian and after I left. But now, since my lady tends to get defensive, I have to hold back. For instance - she comments on "The Davinci Code" that she is not worried about seeing it and having it affect her faith because she "knows" it is fiction. I have to hold back. I want to ask her what makes her think her bible is not fiction, but I just keep my mouth shut.

 

Another problem is that she is a rabid FOX News fan, registered Republican, and Bush supporter. I am just an easy going guy who thinks Bush is an idiot. She knows I feel that way, but when he says something stupid (which is quite often) and when the parrots on FOX news spout their fanatical faith in him, I keep my mouth shut. Not because it will end our relationship if I do express my opinion, but because she can not defend her beliefs in a controlled and rational manner, and I just don't like seeing her try to. I don't like putting her in that position.

 

So, I have had to learn to keep my thoughts (my reactions) hidden. I do this, not out of fear of losing her, but out of compassion for her. Does that make sense?

 

You're making it sound like the relationship is one sided. She obviously feels free to express herself but you are expressing that you don't. The door has to swing both ways for the partnership to work.

 

I also think this is going to back fire on you. When there is an issue in a relationship and it is not addressed, it doesn't get better it only gets worse. Meaning, you cannot ignore you're problems/issues because that doesn't solve them. She needs to control her emotions and try and talk about these issues rationally if she values the relationship. It's give and take not give and give.

 

I understand you don't want to hurt her. I understand how passionate she may be about her beliefs. However, honesty can hurt, it can be harsh, but it is always needed. I'd rather be hurt by the truth than by lies.

 

If you are going to talk about your beliefs than both of you should be able to do so without fear of hurting the other. If you're going to restrict talk about such things in order to keep from hurting the other, than the rule should apply to both of you. Other wise, you may be setting yourself up for a very big fall.

[Guest Emerson]

I agree with Atheistmommy, I couldn't be in a relationship where I couldn't express myself freely especially when it came to politics and religion. Having to hold back so much of yourself isn't worth the compromise. And besides I don't want a guy to hide a part of himself, especially the part that he considers to be important, like when it comes to your beliefs bob. What's the point of hiding whom you are? That'd be a deal breaker for me as well.

[bob]

RATS!

Emerson and Mommy, I was really hoping you two would say "Keep it up bob. Hiding your true feelings is healthy for you and her."

I have felt for some time now that we were not very compatible, her and I. Why have I fallen in love with her...so damn hard? Why have I been so willing to suppress who I really am, in order to protect her from...who I really am?

I keep telling myself that it is worth it. I keep telling myself that it is noble to make this sacrifice for love. I tell myself that what really matters is not our religious and political differences, but our love for each other. But at the same time, I have feelings of resentment toward her for not at least wanting to hear what I have to say concerning religion. She will sit for hours in church and listen to her pastor preach, yet never once in the past year has she asked me for my thoughts on any particular bible passage. I have forgotten more bible knowledge than most Christians will ever learn. Even though I know she is hesitant to talk about it with me, because of my lack of belief, it also sends me the message that my thoughts on the subject are unimportant to her.

I know she is experiencing a battle inside, just as I am. She has to cope with the knowledge that she is in love with an infidel, and all the spiritual implications surrounding that.

Oh well.

[RHEMtron]

She has to cope with the knowledge that she is in love with an infidel, and all the spiritual implications surrounding that.

 

that very fact alone makes a bold statement. it shows how much she really loves you.

[BTDT]

RATS!

Emerson and Mommy, I was really hoping you two would say "Keep it up bob. Hiding your true feelings is healthy for you and her."

I have felt for some time now that we were not very compatible, her and I. Why have I fallen in love with her...so damn hard? Why have I been so willing to suppress who I really am, in order to protect her from...who I really am?

I keep telling myself that it is worth it. I keep telling myself that it is noble to make this sacrifice for love. I tell myself that what really matters is not our religious and political differences, but our love for each other. But at the same time, I have feelings of resentment toward her for not at least wanting to hear what I have to say concerning religion. She will sit for hours in church and listen to her pastor preach, yet never once in the past year has she asked me for my thoughts on any particular bible passage. I have forgotten more bible knowledge than most Christians will ever learn. Even though I know she is hesitant to talk about it with me, because of my lack of belief, it also sends me the message that my thoughts on the subject are unimportant to her.

I know she is experiencing a battle inside, just as I am. She has to cope with the knowledge that she is in love with an infidel, and all the spiritual implications surrounding that.

Oh well.

 

Hi Bob,

I've been lurking reading this thread without jumping in, but I ought to. I'm in the same boat as you, except I'm a female atheist dating a male Christian, in a two year commited relationship. Everything you have said above, I have experienced the identical feelings. Unlike you, I am the one who ends up getting emotional whenever the issue of religious belief rears its head between us - and I try to keep those occasions to a minimum. Like you, I suppress who I naturally am, to avoid such conflicts. While I have more bible knowledge in my little finger than he will ever have, anytime we try to have a rational discussion about why I dismiss the mythologies of God and Christianity, I am told that it is all because I am just 'a negative person,' that I am claiming to 'know everything,' and that I am just 'limited and finite in my thinking' (whereas, his beliefs are happy and positive, and are apparently 'superior' because they are unlimited by any sort of mundane, 'finite reality,' I guess). My challenges, when they get too tough to respond to rationally, are summarily, handily dismissed this way. It's hard to be in a relationship where you feel like you're being dismissed and not being heard...

 

Every now and then there is a gleam of hope... for example, since dating him, he has become very skeptical of the notion that Christianity is 'the only way to God' (he has given a lot of thought to the fact that, through no fault of their own, not everyone will even hear about Christianity or will be able overcome their own childhood religious upbringing and 'convert,') and he has given up the doctrine that God sends people to hell to be tortured. I think these changes have come about because of the cognitive dissonance of realizing that no just, all-loving being would torture me, his loving sweet girlfriend for eternity Although he can not so much as quote from memory a single thing Jesus really ever said, he feels that Jesus was clearly the Son of God and the 'greatest philosopher' to ever live. You can' t pin him down on why exactly he thinks that. Because he's heard it repeated oft enough he's accepted it as truth. No real thought necessary. It gets tough living with this mentality, my friend!

 

I used to attend church with him in a display of solidarity but now I do not; I realized I needed to draw that line. He attends bible study without me as well. (From what I gather, it's more of a big gossip session and not much of any Bible reading really goes on there). What is interesting is that, apparently, he takes all the discussions we have between us to his bible study, to get answers and reinforcement from 'the group.' He has even angered one group to the point he chose to leave; because he was asking so many skeptical questions (a la me) that one of the weirder members told him he was in danger of going to hell and would pray for his soul. That really turned him off. (Good.) I also saw him voluntarily, without any prodding from me, pick up a book of mine "Remedial Christianity - What Every Believer Should Know About the Faith But Probably Doesn't." It's written for believing Christians, not for atheists. It is not meant to convert anyone. It is an actual textbook used in some college courses. I have high hopes that he will read it and learn the true historical facts, and the reality of the evolving theologies that became his religion.

 

Anyway, I don't really know what to tell you. I'm still in this relationship and plan to be. Over time, though, I've realized I've got to be less suppressive and more who I am, no matter what comes of that. We're both consciously working on learning how to each be ourselves, and learn to state our opinions without stomping on each other's feelings (mine tend to feel hurt more than his do, so I have to actually TELL HIM how he's hurting my feelings, and he does better). However, I suspect, even though you're grinning and bearing it now, you are really, really going to want your girlfriend to snap out of this whole 'you're damned' thing she's a slave to. Or at least ask her to respect YOUR beliefs enough not to keep repeating it to you. It WILL get old, just like the "you're just a pessimist, that's why you don't believe" is very old with me by now and I had to explicitly ask him not to say that anymore to me, out of respect for me. You will have to learn to ask what you want from her. You might need to ask her not to say certain things to you. In light of valuing your relationship and always keeping 'being good to each other' the number one priority, you have the right to ask respectful things of her and she of you.

 

Unlike your situation, my boyfriend and I do share the same political views. I think if we did not, our actual value systems - our way of evaluating EVERYthing, would be too diametrically opposed for anything to work. In the end, it's the shared values that matter.

[LosingMyReligion]

Again, thanks to all for your input. I have been so busy lately with work that I have had little time to read your thoughts.

 

Another couple points for your consideration:

 

I have always been free to express my thoughts on religion. I have always had an interest in dialogue with the faithful, when I was a christian and after I left. But now, since my lady tends to get defensive, I have to hold back. For instance - she comments on "The Davinci Code" that she is not worried about seeing it and having it affect her faith because she "knows" it is fiction. I have to hold back. I want to ask her what makes her think her bible is not fiction, but I just keep my mouth shut.

 

Another problem is that she is a rabid FOX News fan, registered Republican, and Bush supporter. I am just an easy going guy who thinks Bush is an idiot. She knows I feel that way, but when he says something stupid (which is quite often) and when the parrots on FOX news spout their fanatical faith in him, I keep my mouth shut. Not because it will end our relationship if I do express my opinion, but because she can not defend her beliefs in a controlled and rational manner, and I just don't like seeing her try to. I don't like putting her in that position.

 

So, I have had to learn to keep my thoughts (my reactions) hidden. I do this, not out of fear of losing her, but out of compassion for her. Does that make sense?

 

That is an absolute, drop dead, deal breaker For me.

 

I consider myself a moderate person, politically; however, I don't agree with this administration at all. And I couldn't live with a person like that.

Infact, I had to end a friendship(thankfully we weren't close)over the 04' election. I can't imagine sharing my life with a staunch conservative.

 

Good luck to you!

[Guest Emerson]

RATS!

Emerson and Mommy, I was really hoping you two would say "Keep it up bob. Hiding your true feelings is healthy for you and her."

I have felt for some time now that we were not very compatible, her and I. Why have I fallen in love with her...so damn hard? Why have I been so willing to suppress who I really am, in order to protect her from...who I really am?

I keep telling myself that it is worth it. I keep telling myself that it is noble to make this sacrifice for love. I tell myself that what really matters is not our religious and political differences, but our love for each other. But at the same time, I have feelings of resentment toward her for not at least wanting to hear what I have to say concerning religion. She will sit for hours in church and listen to her pastor preach, yet never once in the past year has she asked me for my thoughts on any particular bible passage. I have forgotten more bible knowledge than most Christians will ever learn. Even though I know she is hesitant to talk about it with me, because of my lack of belief, it also sends me the message that my thoughts on the subject are unimportant to her.

I know she is experiencing a battle inside, just as I am. She has to cope with the knowledge that she is in love with an infidel, and all the spiritual implications surrounding that.

Oh well.

 

Hi Bob, well if you and your girly could find a way to make it work where both of you felt comfortable expressing yourselves then there'd be no need for either of you to hold back. I think xians shy away from atheism and other beliefs and their arguments because they're afraid of having their faith destroyed, I was like that as a xian. You being resentful is already not a good thing and if you let it go on, it'll get bigger and bigger until one day you've had enough and explode. Don't get married until you've discussed it, really discussed it.

 

I don't know, I couldn't do what you're doing right now in this relationship. I think I'd just go crazy, don't be scared to approach your girlfriend and if you do, just do it nicely. Tell her just what you're telling us. There are sacrifices for love, but suppressing a part of yourself isn't love. You're just sacrificing yourself now. In marriage a lot of things tend to come out whether we like it or not and that part of you, will eventually come out. Trust me, I have divorced parents, nothing can stay hidden for long. It sounds to me like you really have to work at this if you want to be together and I highly suggest that you both do now since you love each other.

[Saviourmachine]

Maybe she is more flexible than you think, even if she's your gf.

[thunderbolt]

Sooner or later you will want to be “true” to yourself, and it’s easy to mask the complexities of what that mean in any relationship when we are still in the “honey moon” phase. You owe it to yourself to try on being true to yourself in front of her to see her reaction and response, thus seeing if she likes the “real” you. Suppressing this shit never helps – I know – I lived a lie for sixteen years, not being true to myself, and I ended up wrecking someone else’ life. Honesty is tough to deal with as far as it relates to immediate emotions, but the long-term benefits outweighs the short-term pain. And maybe she is really open to your POV as SaviorMachine says, but you will not know that unless you have tried being that with her.

 

Nuff rambling …

[Light_of_Reason]

Everyone is right about having to be true to yourself. It took some time, effort, arguing, and outright yelling before my wife and I came to terms with our differences and learned enough respect for one another's beliefs or lack thereof. And we still cross the lines sometimes, but I feel that as long as we remain true to ourselves and honest enough to tell each other when we're crossing boundaries that things can and will work.

[AtheistMommy]

RATS!

Emerson and Mommy, I was really hoping you two would say "Keep it up bob. Hiding your true feelings is healthy for you and her."

I have felt for some time now that we were not very compatible, her and I. Why have I fallen in love with her...so damn hard? Why have I been so willing to suppress who I really am, in order to protect her from...who I really am?

I keep telling myself that it is worth it. I keep telling myself that it is noble to make this sacrifice for love. I tell myself that what really matters is not our religious and political differences, but our love for each other. But at the same time, I have feelings of resentment toward her for not at least wanting to hear what I have to say concerning religion. She will sit for hours in church and listen to her pastor preach, yet never once in the past year has she asked me for my thoughts on any particular bible passage. I have forgotten more bible knowledge than most Christians will ever learn. Even though I know she is hesitant to talk about it with me, because of my lack of belief, it also sends me the message that my thoughts on the subject are unimportant to her.

I know she is experiencing a battle inside, just as I am. She has to cope with the knowledge that she is in love with an infidel, and all the spiritual implications surrounding that.

Oh well.

 

Sorry Bob, I wish I could say it's perfectly healthy to pretend everything is ok when it's really not. But I'm not going to lie to you. There are basic needs in a successful relationship and from what you've written I'm getting that you do not have these met.

 

I'm sure that if you talked to her seriously about this you'd find that it's just as big of an issue for her as it is you. May I ask, what made you fall in love with her?

 

Please consider that love is an actual chemical in the brain which has been known to make those involved blind to what they would normally not accept.

[Dhampir]

Strange how a lot of the christians I've known have been very flexible and willing to discuss their beliefs with me. Or maybe I just inspire that sort of thing, I dont' know. Anyway, I couldnt' bring myself to be with someone who had that hard of a time facing anything, especially their religious beliefs. I would have to confront them with it and if they could not weather my scrutiny of their beliefs, whether or not they chose to hold onto them, I would leave. It is not fair to anyone, and sooner or later, as everyone has said, it would lead to a breakdown anyway.

[bob]

Well, lots of thoughts on this matter. I have read them all, several times over.

 

I know I am not the most healthy person, emotionally. This relationship has taken it's toll on me. It is not volatile. We have not fought at all. I have not been angry at her even once. I do get my feelings hurt from time to time. I am very attentive to her, showing her my love, my passion for her. She is not quite as expressive as I am. So, from time to time I have take that as...well, wondering if she feels for me as I feel for her. I have come to realize that it is just different personalities.

 

I don't like being alone. Months before we met, she lost her husband of 19 years. My 25 year marriage had fallen apart. She had just joined a club that I was a member of, we got acquainted, and in a matter of weeks, developed very strong feelings for each other.

 

Most, if not all of her friends and coworkers are Christians. She has commented to me and to some of them that my actions and attitudes put many of her Christian friends to shame. So I know she does not view my lack of belief as a contributor to moral decay. Her only problem with it is the thought that I will go to hell when I die.

 

Ya know, I could let our religious and philosophical differences be the end of our relationship, but then what? I would still love her. And the chances of me meeting a non believer in my part of the country is pretty slim. So, I would be alone. I don't want to be alone. So, I compromise. I have never really been the type of person who just spouts off what I am feeling. I usually keep my mouth shut until someone asks my opinion. I think that is what is kind of hard on me right now. I would like it if she wanted to know what I thought. Does she not care?...Is she worried that if she asks that it will turn into an argument?...or does she just not think about our religious differences as much as I do?

 

She is basically a Sunday morning Christian. I never see her pray outside of church. The subject of her faith rarely comes into the conversation outside of church. Like many believers, you probably would not have any idea that she was one unless you asked her, or saw her in church.

So, can I tolerate her faith, if it really only affects me for a couple hours on Sunday? I think I can. Even as absurd as I see it, I think I can. As long as she can tolerate my lack of faith.

 

I know when I was a Christian, I would have looked at her as one who has been fed a counterfeit salvation. I would have had nothing to do with her. I was a fundy

 

When, and if I do have any discussions with her concerning her beliefs, I will keep you posted.

I really appreciate your input.